Imperial VS Stormcloak

[RustyBlade]

 

The civil war in Skyrim is caused by Ulfric's murder of the High King. So, he is to blame for the internal conflict.

 

No one man is the sole cause of any war, civil or otherwise. There has to be symapthy and support of and for the cause by a great many individuals or the war cannot happen. If Ulfric acted without support, he surely would not have been able to start the war. It is only with that support that his side has the force and momentum to to engage in a conflict on the scale of civil war. Not picking a side here, just pointing out that there are as many in Skyrim who share his view as those who do not. You give him far to much credit.

 

As to the original poster's asking help in picking a side, I can only offer that in my experience, I chose a side based on who my character is and what backstory I imagine for him. Sometimes I go Imperial, sometimes I go Stormcloak - sometimes I kill the Emperor, sometimes I don't.

[ufw7]

@bombomb I think, after reading your replys on Lobselvith, that your statments are to much based on opinions. LobselVith has that too but less than you. (That's my opinion :blush:)

 

ANd here you got the reason of the rebellion

4E 176 — Ulfric Stormcloak retakes The Reach instigating the Markarth Incident.

• The Empire and the son of the deposed Jarl promised Ulfric Stormcloak free worship of Talos in exchange for retaking The Reach. Ulfric forms a Nord militia and crushes the Reachmen at Markarth with the aid of the Thu'um. The survivors flee into the wilds forming a group called the Forsworn. Ulfric is arrested when the Thalmor discover the open worship of Talos. Ulfric and his men are eventually released, but the incident kindles what will become the Stormcloak Rebellion.

I think that ulfric doesn't want power but he'll want to defeat the thalmor (and he needs power to do that (as High king)), (but i think that the empire is the best side to join)

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2011 by ufw7

[Khorak]

No one man is the sole cause of any war, civil or otherwise. There has to be symapthy and support of and for the cause by a great many individuals or the war cannot happen. If Ulfric acted without support, he surely would not have been able to start the war. It is only with that support that his side has the force and momentum to to engage in a conflict on the scale of civil war. Not picking a side here, just pointing out that there are as many in Skyrim who share his view as those who do not. You give him far to much credit.

 

It's always important to remember that Ulfric has such widespread support. Not everything can be laid at his feet. Galmar Stone-Fist rightfully says before the Battle of Whiterun that the Stormcloaks want this as much as Ulfric does, perhaps more. Hell, Galmar himself is so heavily into the cause that if you choose the Legion he'll still hate you in the afterlife for it! Not even Ulfric seems to be THAT angry!

 

Ultimately Ulfric is the figurehead. He's the only person willing and capable, with the conviction to back it up, to be the leader for what a lot of Nords believe in. It can irk me somewhat when people talk about Ulfric in terms of him being 'power hungry'. He is, but I know those people aren't saying it with an understanding of what he's all about. He's not a megalomaniac, he's not in it for the sake of conquest and power. The guy sees himself on a crusade to restore Skyrim to what it should be. Yes he's 'power hungry' but it's not a matter of personal gain and greed, it's a matter of it being the only way to bring back Skyrim. He isn't being selfish, he's fighting for his people with the intention of, in his eyes and his supporters, liberating and restoring them to what they should be.

 

As to the original poster's asking help in picking a side, I can only offer that in my experience, I chose a side based on who my character is and what backstory I imagine for him. Sometimes I go Imperial, sometimes I go Stormcloak - sometimes I kill the Emperor, sometimes I don't.

 

I come up with ideas to follow the Legion questline with new characters sometimes. Then I end up following my dreamboat Ralof into the fort. Curses! Him and the prospect of hacking that Imperial Captain to pieces are too much!

 

Then the Battle of Whiterun swings round and I have to feel bad for beating on Balgruuf. :(

[Rumanchu]

Everyone seems to forget that High Rock is still part of the Empire. If Skyrim secedes, then Cyrodiil is cut off from High Rock and the Empire basically ceases to exist.

 

The way I see it, the war has three possible outcomes: Imperial victory, Stormcloak victory, or indefinite stalemate. Indefinite stalemate is the most advantageous to the Thalmor, so that rules out simply not joining the war. So now the choice is between the other two options is better for Tamriel, as in, worse for the Thalmor.

 

Keep in mind that I said TAMRIEL, not just SKYRIM. The Stormcloaks have reasons for fighting for an independent Skyrim that are valid from a certain point of view. However, the issue with their nationalism is that focus is on their nation only. They are not thinking about what is best for ALL of the races all across Tamriel, not just the Nords of Skyrim. If the Stormcloaks win, Tamriel will be completely divided between various independent and nationalistic provinces who will have to waste time and resources organizing against the Thalmor threat - and I'm certain some races will be reluctant to cooperate with others, further damaging the allied cause. If the Stormcloaks are put down, the Empire can lick its wounds and prepare to strike back.

 

They are not under the heel of the Thalmor quite as much as people think - the Great War was fought to a stalemate, with the Imperial City liberated but the armed forces of both sides utterly devastated. Titus Mede accepted the treaty because true Imperial victory - true defeat of the Aldmeri Dominion - would require an invasion of the Summerset Isle, something of which the Empire simply was not capable. The Stormcloaks can be all gung-ho, claiming that fighting and dying with honor is better than living in submission, but the reality is that the Empire had foresight and did what it had to do to survive - and Tamriel needs a strong Empire. The Golden Age of the Septim dynasty was the freest, most peaceful, and most prosperous Tamriel had ever been. But before "The Empire Strikes Back", it needs "A New Hope" - namely, the Dovahkiin ending the unnecessary and shortsighted Stormcloak rebellion and keeping the Empire strong enough to defeat the single greatest threat to the world since the Oblivion Crisis.

[RighthandofSithis]

Everyone seems to forget that High Rock is still part of the Empire. If Skyrim secedes, then Cyrodiil is cut off from High Rock and the Empire basically ceases to exist.

 

The way I see it, the war has three possible outcomes: Imperial victory, Stormcloak victory, or indefinite stalemate. Indefinite stalemate is the most advantageous to the Thalmor, so that rules out simply not joining the war. So now the choice is between the other two options is better for Tamriel, as in, worse for the Thalmor.

 

Keep in mind that I said TAMRIEL, not just SKYRIM. The Stormcloaks have reasons for fighting for an independent Skyrim that are valid from a certain point of view. However, the issue with their nationalism is that focus is on their nation only. They are not thinking about what is best for ALL of the races all across Tamriel, not just the Nords of Skyrim. If the Stormcloaks win, Tamriel will be completely divided between various independent and nationalistic provinces who will have to waste time and resources organizing against the Thalmor threat - and I'm certain some races will be reluctant to cooperate with others, further damaging the allied cause. If the Stormcloaks are put down, the Empire can lick its wounds and prepare to strike back.

 

They are not under the heel of the Thalmor quite as much as people think - the Great War was fought to a stalemate, with the Imperial City liberated but the armed forces of both sides utterly devastated. Titus Mede accepted the treaty because true Imperial victory - true defeat of the Aldmeri Dominion - would require an invasion of the Summerset Isle, something of which the Empire simply was not capable. The Stormcloaks can be all gung-ho, claiming that fighting and dying with honor is better than living in submission, but the reality is that the Empire had foresight and did what it had to do to survive - and Tamriel needs a strong Empire. The Golden Age of the Septim dynasty was the freest, most peaceful, and most prosperous Tamriel had ever been. But before "The Empire Strikes Back", it needs "A New Hope" - namely, the Dovahkiin ending the unnecessary and shortsighted Stormcloak rebellion and keeping the Empire strong enough to defeat the single greatest threat to the world since the Oblivion Crisis.

 

I acknowledge your opinion. This is pretty much the main argument in support of the Empire. However, I and Breaking Dawn had established earlier that if the Empire wins the civil war, it is still possible for the Empire to collapse, and likewise, it is possible for the Empire to survive. It depends entirely on the new Emperor after Titus Mede II, whether he will successfully reform the Empire, or if it has decayed to much and will fall, regardless of the outcome of Skyrim's civil war.

 

And when you say some races may not wish to cooperate with each other, look at WW2. Did the USSR and the Western Allies like each other very much? In the event of a war with the Thalmor, I believe that Tamriel will still unite to fight the common enemy (and from such unity, the Fourth Empire may emerge)

Edited December 31, 2011 by RighthandofSithis

[JanusForbeare]

This is nuts. I gave up on reading the big blocks of text by page 6, and stopped reading altogether by page 10. But for those with more fortitude than I, I'll keep my answer to the original question short.

 

I would support the Empire due to realpolitik. A big power block in opposition to a threat like the Dominion is preferable than a handful of squabbling provinces. Simple as that. The alternative is the total disintegration of the Empire as an effective sovereign state and human subjugation to the elves.

 

As a sidebar, two historical themes resonated with me as I played through the game. The first was that of the American revolutionary war, with a land divided between revolutionaries and united empire loyalists, brothers fighting brothers, etc. The other was more of a modern-day parallel; the decline of an empire and the struggle to maintain its glory in the face of a new rising power.

[roby55]

Its to hard to decide for me This post may look stupid or a troll post to some but oh well might as well post what i thinik ! :blush:

 

 

This situation really reminds me of my Home country The Philippines .

 

Our people back in the day wanted Philippines for filipinos Ruled By Filipinos and Governed by Filipinos only (Just like how Ulfric wanted Skyrim to be Ruled and Governed by Nords only)

 

Now I would compare U.S.A to the Imperials (Except the Thalmor part) . The Philippines is America's longest and most loyal ally in Asia even before World war 2 even if The philippines is a weak country on war it was still very loyal to the U.S and fought alongside them againts the Spanish(spanish-american war) the koreans (korean war) and ofcourse againts the Japanese (world war 2)

 

But the thing is the Philippines does not want Americas help anymore back in the day and kick America's militarys out of our country even if they are still allies because Filipinos want The philippines for filipino only and ruled by Filipino's (just like Ulfric)

 

 

And How wrong it turned out to be ! Fast forward many Years and The Philippines now is a complete MESS ! and a thirld word country . The Philippines used to be the second richest nation in the whole Asian continent back in the days (Japan 1st) and poor countries like Taiwan and Korea and other asian countries are begging to get work in the country back in the days are now SUPERIOR than us. Korea now is one of the richest nation in asia (with the help of the U.S) and taiwan is also a rich country and have many filipino domestic helpers

 

 

 

So as you can see Thats why Im having trouble picking ! Yeah its cool ulfric wants nords for nords only but it does not mean it will always end good It could turn into a disaster in the end. So im thinking whats right for the future of Skyrim

[ChronicKillerInstinct]

Personally, I sided with the Imperials.

My reasons are as follows:

 

The Stormcloaks are racist bigots who believe that Skyrim is for Nords, the "true sons and daughters of Skyrim". I hate that they have no respect for any of the other races of Skyrim and the way that they treat anybody who isn't a Nord (I think of the Gray Quarter here and those 2 assholes pestering the elven lady). From what I have learned, Skyrim was inhabited by the Forsworn even before the Nords came to be in Skyrim, so how can they profess to be the sons and daughters of a stolen land!?

 

Ulfric challenging the High King of Skyrim may have been legal and honourable, but using the Thu'um to disarm the High King and kill him seems to sway the battle... What started as a fair fight descended into a one sided murder. Ulfric obviously had neither the courage, nor the means to defeat Torygg in a fair fight, so how can he pronounce himself the true high king!? He also fled the scene after he killed the High King, rather than claiming his throne... Fleeing the scene in my eyes is a sign of guilt, why should he feel guilty about defeating an opponent in a fair fight?

 

Ulfric has come across as a power hungry barbarian throughout my experience with him, leading Skyrim when he has only thoughts of himself, in such a troubled time when the Thalmor are a mighty and deadly threat, would lead to only chaos and the destruction of any non elven race.

 

I know the Imperials aren't perfect, but upholding a peace treaty with the Thalmor is a temporary measure in order to bring a wealth of strength and numbers to the Imperial forces. The banning of the worship of Talos may be an indignity to the memory of Tiber Septim, but as a temporary measure it allows time to regenerate and to invigorate the numbers within the Imperial forces and to preserve the life of citizens of the Empire and Skyrim alike. General Tullius even hinted to me after the death of Ulfric, that the peace treaty with the Thalmor may not be as strong as is publicly apparent! I'd like to mention also that the banning of the worship of Talos isn't even upheld in the cities of Skyrim - there is a priest shouting about Talos all the time in the city Whiterun.

 

Although the Imperials tried to cut my head off before the attack at Helgen, I am forgiving... I have worked so hard to ensure the survival of the Imperial army that they have made me a legate - Although this title is not recognised across much of Skyrim. Anybody who stands before me and

[AlekseyRaukov]

Most NPC that I talked in game mention that Ulfric's Stormcloaks did not really had thats much support before murdering High King and ignating civil war. I see Stormcloaks and Ulfric more as oppurtunist that are using aftermath of Great War and Whire-Gold Concordat to drive their own intresses. Ulfric is just powermongering fool after throne. Trying to weaken Empire of same man/god that formed it and last bastion of humanity against Thalmor. Skyrim has been loyal since times of first Empire. It would be madness for Skyrim to secede from Empire.

[terzho]

Everyone seems to forget that High Rock is still part of the Empire. If Skyrim secedes, then Cyrodiil is cut off from High Rock and the Empire basically ceases to exist.

 

The way I see it, the war has three possible outcomes: Imperial victory, Stormcloak victory, or indefinite stalemate. Indefinite stalemate is the most advantageous to the Thalmor, so that rules out simply not joining the war. So now the choice is between the other two options is better for Tamriel, as in, worse for the Thalmor.

 

Keep in mind that I said TAMRIEL, not just SKYRIM. The Stormcloaks have reasons for fighting for an independent Skyrim that are valid from a certain point of view. However, the issue with their nationalism is that focus is on their nation only. They are not thinking about what is best for ALL of the races all across Tamriel, not just the Nords of Skyrim. If the Stormcloaks win, Tamriel will be completely divided between various independent and nationalistic provinces who will have to waste time and resources organizing against the Thalmor threat - and I'm certain some races will be reluctant to cooperate with others, further damaging the allied cause. If the Stormcloaks are put down, the Empire can lick its wounds and prepare to strike back.

 

They are not under the heel of the Thalmor quite as much as people think - the Great War was fought to a stalemate, with the Imperial City liberated but the armed forces of both sides utterly devastated. Titus Mede accepted the treaty because true Imperial victory - true defeat of the Aldmeri Dominion - would require an invasion of the Summerset Isle, something of which the Empire simply was not capable. The Stormcloaks can be all gung-ho, claiming that fighting and dying with honor is better than living in submission, but the reality is that the Empire had foresight and did what it had to do to survive - and Tamriel needs a strong Empire. The Golden Age of the Septim dynasty was the freest, most peaceful, and most prosperous Tamriel had ever been. But before "The Empire Strikes Back", it needs "A New Hope" - namely, the Dovahkiin ending the unnecessary and shortsighted Stormcloak rebellion and keeping the Empire strong enough to defeat the single greatest threat to the world since the Oblivion Crisis.

 

Actually no, the Empire wining over Skyrim is not what is best for ALL OF TAMRIEL. Remember that even if the Empire wins it will still only consist of three provinces. All the rest have either left the Empire or joined the Aldemeri dominion. Skyrim doesn't need the Empire which if you sided with the Stormcloaks is just Cyrodil and High Rock.

Edited February 7, 2012 by terzho