Imperial VS Stormcloak

[sajuukkhar9000]

Further evidence that Talos is a god come from Knights of the Nine. The player is granted the ability to destroy Umaril's soul with the blessing of Talos.

 

However, the dropping of Talos as a god is relatively logical. Reman was a god to the Second Empire, but he is no longer worshiped.

Talos is not only a god but he is the most powerful of them all.

 

Tiber has achieved CHIM before his ascension and only Vivec could ever hope the challenge him.

 

No one from Akatosh to Sithis to Anu to Padomey could ever even touch Talos's power.

Edited February 17, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[AlekseyRaukov]

Further evidence that Talos is a god come from Knights of the Nine. The player is granted the ability to destroy Umaril's soul with the blessing of Talos.

 

However, the dropping of Talos as a god is relatively logical. Reman was a god to the Second Empire, but he is no longer worshiped.

Talos is not only a god but he is the most powerful of them all.

 

Tiber has achieved CHIM before his ascension and only Vivec could ever hope the challenge him.

 

No one from Akatosh to Sithis to Anu to Padomey could ever even touch Talos's power.

 

You have to take account that there are according to many books in-game lore gods that do not appear in game itself. Reman and Shezarr gods were atleast worshipped in third era in Empire. I also bet that this continues to fourth era too. Escpecially Shezar/Shor wich is really a human god against elves. With great war against elves I am sure these gods have found new popularity.

 

Only blind idiot would support Stormcloak traitors against Empire humanitys hope against elves. Stormcloaks are just Thalmor tool weakening Empire. So they can try overrun it again like in Great War. Before they were slaughtered in Battle of Red Ring. Like Legate Rikke I admit that there is some good arguments in Stormcloak agenda. At best they are misguided fools and at worst bloodthirsty rebels, thugs and traitors. With their leader being powermongering usurper who betrayed his Emperor during Great War while being Thalmor prisoner. While his Emperor fought for survival of humanity,

Edited February 19, 2012 by jore666

[Sativarg2]

Only blind idiot would support Stormcloak traitors against Empire humanity's hope against elves. Stormcloaks are just Thalmor tool weakening Empire. So they can try overrun it again like in Great War. Before they were slaughtered in Battle of Red Ring. Like Legate Rikke I admit that there is some good arguments in Stormcloak agenda. At best they are misguided fools and at worst bloodthirsty rebels, thugs and traitors. With their leader being power-mongering usurper who betrayed his Emperor during Great War while being Thalmor prisoner. While his Emperor fought for survival of humanity,

I feel the priority should be to end the conflict. I choose to do so with the Stormcloaks and thus preserve their right to worship as they please. I also strove to reach the leaders as quickly as possible when possible in the quest line and press for surrender.

 

The game does not allow for a comfortable happy ending so I chose to believe according to my priorities. Assuming all those who do not believe as you do are blind and stupid would seem to be rather short sighted and arrogant imho... Very Imperialistic of you jore666

LOL but seriously just "not!" I had fun and I'll play the other path as well... so have a great game guys.

UPDATE:#272

a logical argument for supporting the Stormcloaks which would benefit all of Tamrielic Humanity

Edited February 19, 2012 by Apprentice Harper

[sajuukkhar9000]

You have to take account that there are according to many books in-game lore gods that do not appear in game itself. Reman and Shezarr gods were atleast worshipped in third era in Empire. I also bet that this continues to fourth era too. Escpecially Shezar/Shor wich is really a human god against elves. With great war against elves I am sure these gods have found new popularity.

Shezzar is Lorkhan who does appear as Shor, Sithis, and Talos, along with others such as Tiber, Martin, Reman, Pelinal Whitestrake, and possibly the player character.

Edited February 19, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[RighthandofSithis]

Only blind idiot would support Stormcloak traitors against Empire humanitys hope against elves. Stormcloaks are just Thalmor tool weakening Empire.

 

I wouldn't say that. People (like me) could take offense to that. I know there can sometimes be a fine line between a heated debate, and insulting someone, But please try not to use terms such as that. (I respect your passion though).

 

If you had read my posts you would know there is a logical argument for supporting the Stormcloaks which would benefit all of Tamrielic Humanity.

Edited February 19, 2012 by RighthandofSithis

[sukeban]

I'm not going to really comment on the moral superiority of Empire/Stormcloak, as to me it is entirely subjective, almost to the point of being irrelevant. Certainly there are benefits to being integrated within larger economic and political bodies and... of course, there are drawbacks. Such cost/benefit calculations for nations, sadly enough, can only be peacefully made once. Indeed, as much of our own history seems to make clear, leaving empires is a far more difficult task than joining them.

 

That said, I take my position from a severe anti-Thalmor bent. It seems to be repeated as a truism that only the Empire has the strength to defeat the Thalmor when the time comes (and it will come). But I question whether or not this is perhaps a false dichotomy between the two sides. What logical sense does it make for the Empire or an independent Skyrim to fight each other (or to remain neutral) in a war against the Thalmor? When both sides know that the very survival of mankind is at stake... it really seems rather daft to suggest that they would not put aside their petty differences and make common cause against their mutual, quite existential foe. If ever a situation arose in which the nations of man had to fight the Thalmor one-on-one, without the assistance of all, it would seem as though perhaps man truly is too petty, and that they deserve their annihilation at the hands of the (for all their other faults...) unified elves.

 

But truly, I cannot foresee any situation, no matter how bitter the civil strife in Skyrim and no matter how many Imperial soldiers (recruited locally, apparently) are slain by Stormcloak blades, that they would not unite with each other and with Hammerfell to resist the Thalmor. Within this context, I would believe that a renewed, patriotic Skyrim would put up a more spirited resistance than a sullen, resentful Skyrim. The Empire is definitely, as all will admit, not the enemy, but saying, "bide your time yet longer, it's only been thirty years" is not the sort of rallying cry that one would expect from a great empire on the eve of a yet-greater war. No, better to fight under the glorious banners of your own victorious nation, steeled with the conviction and confidence that only a successful campaign of liberation could imbue. The morale of a victorious Stormcloak army would unquestionably be higher than that of those impressed into a foreign, conscripted force. Indeed, would you rather have the Russian Imperial Army of 1917 fighting in the final war against the Thalmor or that of the Viet-Cong? To me, this is not a difficult decision. Thus, I vote Stormcloak on amoral grounds.

[Nanothnir]

When I started getting into the swing of things without reading too much into the war in my first character I went to go make a Nord who was Talos Reborn. Then I had to choose which side to play with.................

 

Damn it...

 

Side with Stormcloaks, make Skyrim worse then it is. Yet people can pray to Talos freely.

Side with Empire. The idea of being Talos Reborn is difficult when your Talos and you find out that the Empire has Banned all things to do with you...

[RighthandofSithis]

UPDATE:#272

a logical argument for supporting the Stormcloaks which would benefit all of Tamrielic Humanity

 

 

Thank you for sharing my post. But that was actually just a discussion about the sources used in the conflict.

 

If you read even further back, you will find that I give support of the Stormcloaks being able to combat the Thalmor by making Skyrim strong and allying with the other human powers, like Hammerfell.

 

Here is my first post on this topic for example.

 

"This is an interesting topic. This is a political struggle between the declining Cyrodillic Empire and the Stormcloak revolutionaries with the Thalmor looking at both sides and seeing that the empire is weakening as a result of the civil war, but do not have total support for either side, rather wishing to have control over both.

 

Before I continue with my evaluation of the situation, I wish to express that in reality, I am an anti-imperialist, and a supporter of egalitarianism (Meaning I don't like Empires or racism etc).

 

The empire is a superpower that has seen it's glory days, but those days seem to be behind them. The Great War with the Thalmor had cost the Empire much of it's prestige, armed forces and, as always with wars of such severity, likely much of the Empire's wealth. Some would say that the Empire is defiantly falling, and that the Thalmor are an indestructable force. However, Both sides had lost much during the Great War. The Thalmor had to accept the peace treaty as well, thus they are not likely in the best position either (If they where, they would have attacked again), albeit the Thalmor don't have to put up with the continuous warring of their own people.

 

Nonetheless, should Skyrim become independent, the empire's fall will be inevitable. The Empire only consists of only three provinces now, Cyrodiil, High Rock and Skyrim. Skyrim is right in the middle of these three places. Thus is Skyrim leaves, the High Rock will have troubled or no communication with Cyrodiil and will be forced to leave (Returning to it's traditional feudalism). However, if the Empire remains united, it would mean that the Thalmor would have to face a unified foe.

 

The Stormcloak revolutionaries on the other hand wish to free themselves from the Empire which they see as being controlled by/allied with the Thalmor. It seems that many Nords are sympathetic to these beliefs. While it is obvious that the Thalmor are not allied with the Empire (They are in fact the greatest of foes), the Nordic people feel shamed that the Thalmor have defeated humanity and to appease them (however temporary) that they must be permitted to deny them their own gods and put up with the elven demands. This is not helped by Nordic xenophobia. Ever since the Slaughter at Saarthal in the First Era, the Nords have always hated any elves, and Elves have always hated the Nords.

 

While the Stormcloaks may be racist, they clearly have the interests of their own people at heart. Skyrim's independence be secured, the Empire will fall. However, this will open opportunities for diplomatic relations with Hammerfell. While Hammerfell is a ruined nation, it is once again reunited and with help from other nations, such as Skyrim, would be able to become a force capable to combating the Thalmor once again. Not only this, but as Skyrim is the northernmost nation in Tamriel, the Thalmor would have to advance through much hostile territory to be able to threaten it. Even then, it would have to advance through the Jerall mountains, an almost impossible barrier between Skyrim and Cyrodiil, and then advance into the incredibly hostile environment of Skyrim itself.

 

Also, in both cases, in the face of the Thalmor threat, it is possible that a new hero will emerge, following in the footsteps of Alessia, Reman and Talos.

 

PS. A few people seem to have missed a few issues. One. Nobody remembers High Rock, they defeated the Cameron Usurper, and are thus capable of unity when the need arises. Two. This talk of magic Vs melee seems to forget that the first empire was forged by the Nords, who had forced the Falmer (who where very capable of magic at the time) out of Skyrim and assisted greatly in the defeat of the elves in Cyrodiil (Again competent at magic). While magic is useful in combat, does that mean your character always dies when facing mages? Three. The Thalmor do not want a Stormcloak victory, they have an article on Ulfric which states this. "

 

**** With my statement about Hammerfell being a ruined nation, it has been 20 years since they forced out the Thalmor. They could be strong again in their own right (given a new generation and the Redguard martial culture).

Edited February 19, 2012 by RighthandofSithis

[sajuukkhar9000]

**** With my statement about Hammerfell being a ruined nation, it has been 20 years since they forced out the Thalmor. They could be strong again in their own right (given a new generation and the Redguard martial culture).

 

Dont forget the Redguards have the power of the Hoonding when the need arises, and it is almost, if not as powerful, as Talos.

Edited February 19, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[RighthandofSithis]

**** With my statement about Hammerfell being a ruined nation, it has been 20 years since they forced out the Thalmor. They could be strong again in their own right (given a new generation and the Redguard martial culture).

 

Dont forget the Redguards have the power of the Hoonding when the need arises, and it is almost, if not as powerful, as Talos.

 

Yes. I'm personally trying to stay away from introducing religion as a force that grants power. I don't want to offend anyone, but I personally don't want to use it in a debate. ( Again, because this can be a sensitive subject, I wish to restate I don't want to offend anyone).

 

And another argument to support Hammerfell's recovery is that in 20 years a lot can happen. It only took Stalin a few years to build the USSR into an industrial power.