Imperial VS Stormcloak

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

The Empire is made up of Nords essentially, and without Skyrim the Empire will die quickly, with Skyrim the Empire will die slower. In the end Skyrim will either be dragged down with the Empire or an independent state that may have some problems but not nearly as many as the Empire.

 

Thats my main argument, with all the problems the empire is facing Skyrim doesnt need, shouldnt, have to be a part of them. Skyrim is one of them currently.

 

In the end the Stormcloaks represent the fact that people have the right to be independent and free.

[RighthandofSithis]

The Empire is made up of Nords essentially, and without Skyrim the Empire will die quickly, with Skyrim the Empire will die slower. In the end Skyrim will either be dragged down with the Empire or an independent state that may have some problems but not nearly as many as the Empire.

 

Thats my main argument, with all the problems the empire is facing Skyrim doesnt need, shouldnt, have to be a part of them. Skyrim is one of them currently.

 

In the end the Stormcloaks represent the fact that people have the right to be independent and free.

 

Well, yeah, that's basically my perspective as well. The Empire is dying, and Skyrim must not die with it.

 

Better to have some resistance, than none at all. And as I have indicated, an independent Skyrim may be able to forge ties with its neighbors, creating a force just as powerful, if not more powerful, than the Empire.

Edited February 25, 2013 by RighthandofSithis

[fraquar]

Stormhammer, you are forgetting one important thing in regards to the Empire doing what you suggest. The Empire NEEDS Skyrim, without it there is no Empire left. Long before they'd ever do what you'd suggest I'd most certainly expect them to bring in the regulars and completely stamp out the resistance.

 

Yes, that does come at a risk of leaving themselves exposed in Cyrodil, sure - but as is almost universally accepted fact by both Imperialists and Stormcloaks alike - the Empire as we know it dies if it loses Skyrim. They really have no choice in the matter - and the longer this thing draws out the worse it gets.

 

Then again, that would mean the Empire would need to be "proactive", and as we've seen they are anything but - it's why they have lost all the territories they have.

 

I don't understand their decision-making regarding this issue - never have. Even Tullius himself shakes his head at the thought of placating the Nords - the country is too damn important to the Empire to do so.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Then again, that would mean the Empire would need to be "proactive", and as we've seen they are anything but - it's why they have lost all the territories they have.

 

Except Black Marsh, Elsweyr, Valenwood, and Alinor, which were all lost due to forces outside the Empire's controll.

 

Only Hammerfell and Morrowind could have possibly been saved as part of the Empire, but the redguards need to attack a enemy force they couldn't actually destory, only temprorarily drive off, was beyond the Empire's controll.

 

And Morrowind's destruction, and subsequent path to revival, was predicted, and set in motion by Vivec, it was divine fate that they landed in the situation they were in, and it seems unlikely that the Empire could have done anything to prevent a plan set in motion by an over 4,000 year old immortal god-king who had ascended to a plane of existace beyond both the Aedra and the Daedra, who has only ever been matched by talos, and even then, Vivec made talos bend knee to him.

[RighthandofSithis]

Stormhammer, you are forgetting one important thing in regards to the Empire doing what you suggest. The Empire NEEDS Skyrim, without it there is no Empire left. Long before they'd ever do what you'd suggest I'd most certainly expect them to bring in the regulars and completely stamp out the resistance.

 

Yes, that does come at a risk of leaving themselves exposed in Cyrodil, sure - but as is almost universally accepted fact by both Imperialists and Stormcloaks alike - the Empire as we know it dies if it loses Skyrim. They really have no choice in the matter - and the longer this thing draws out the worse it gets.

 

Then again, that would mean the Empire would need to be "proactive", and as we've seen they are anything but - it's why they have lost all the territories they have.

 

I don't understand their decision-making regarding this issue - never have. Even Tullius himself shakes his head at the thought of placating the Nords - the country is too damn important to the Empire to do so.

 

I'm not sure if you're aware, but we don't care if the Empire dies. In fact, we acknowledge that it will. At least Skyrim and High Rock would be spared from the aftershocks of said collapse.

 

Also, using conventional forces to stamp out resistance fighters didn't work in Vietnam (IRL), or Hammerfell (TES). In fact, with the Empire already dying, they couldn't just send their forces to try and reclaim Skyrim following the revolution, because, well, it would simply add to their instability at home, and the Empire would collapse around its own ears.

[kradus]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but we don't care if the Empire dies. In fact, we acknowledge that it will.

 

You're insisting that it will, but only if the stormcloaks win. With skyrim brought back to the fold, the empire can witstand the next great war, at which point the white gold concordat is no more.

I dont know why you insist that the empire can't recover from its current troubles. I mean, how on earth would breaking the empire in 3 fix anything or increase it's collective millitary power? Especially with the Dominion ready to pounce?

 

In fact, in order for humans to live out of the Dominion's shadow, in the long run, some kind of human alliance with singular leadership (aka empire) must be in place. It's either Empire or Dominion really.

Edited February 25, 2013 by kradus

[Kayyyleb]

 

Stormhammer, you are forgetting one important thing in regards to the Empire doing what you suggest. The Empire NEEDS Skyrim, without it there is no Empire left. Long before they'd ever do what you'd suggest I'd most certainly expect them to bring in the regulars and completely stamp out the resistance.

 

Yes, that does come at a risk of leaving themselves exposed in Cyrodil, sure - but as is almost universally accepted fact by both Imperialists and Stormcloaks alike - the Empire as we know it dies if it loses Skyrim. They really have no choice in the matter - and the longer this thing draws out the worse it gets.

 

Then again, that would mean the Empire would need to be "proactive", and as we've seen they are anything but - it's why they have lost all the territories they have.

 

I don't understand their decision-making regarding this issue - never have. Even Tullius himself shakes his head at the thought of placating the Nords - the country is too damn important to the Empire to do so.

 

I'm not sure if you're aware, but we don't care if the Empire dies. In fact, we acknowledge that it will. At least Skyrim and High Rock would be spared from the aftershocks of said collapse.

 

Also, using conventional forces to stamp out resistance fighters didn't work in Vietnam (IRL), or Hammerfell (TES). In fact, with the Empire already dying, they couldn't just send their forces to try and reclaim Skyrim following the revolution, because, well, it would simply add to their instability at home, and the Empire would collapse around its own ears.

So I guess the Stormcloak mentality is screw the people in Cyrodiil and leave them to be ground under the Thalmor's heels. How is that any better than the Empire screwing over Hammerfell? Actually, how is that any different whatsoever?

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

You see thats why we Stormcloaks want out of the Empire, they see Skyrim as a resource not a province of its own people. Thats the reason we are sick and done with this so called "Empire of Tamriel."

 

The Stormcloaks fight for their homeland and their people, the Empire is fighting for its existence and preservation, which is undoubtedly gone. One way or another the Empire will die.

 

If the Empire wins in Skyrim they will have just killed all the soldiers capable of saving it. The Nords wont just take up arms in the name of the empire like they used to, before it royally f*cked them.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

I would rather die a free man than live an oppressed one. By any and all means necessary you fight for the right to be free. My father taught me these values. First comes family, then comes religion, then yourself.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

The Nords have fought for the Empire for ages and now they are fighting for their homeland, how on earth is that wrong in any way?

 

The Empire should respect that and leave, but no they had to send a force to occupy and oppress them to do their bidding.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Stormcloak117