Modifying Textures

[teklanika]

I have a couple quick questions for the texture modders out there!

 

I'm a modding veteran when it comes to The Elder Scrolls; I've been making them since Morrowind and Oblivion. However, most of the work I've done revolves around the Construction Set, which we---sadly---don't have access to at the moment. So I've turned my attention to textures, as I'd like to make Skyrim a more beautiful place to immerse ones self in. Modeling was never my forte; too complex for the amount of time I'm willing to dump into my little projects. So that leaves purely texture work, which I know I can do if I just had a little extra knowledge on the subject.

 

So my questions are:

 

1. What is the best method for modifying existing textures to get higher detail and resolution?

 

2. How can I create an accurate normal map, like the default Bethesda maps? (I use Photoshop with the Nvidia .DDS tool, but whenever I attempt to create a normal map it's very fuzzy, in comparison to the Bethesda maps which are much more sharp. I know this has something to do with height templates but I can't seem to figure it out!)

 

 

Let me give an example of what I'm trying to do here. I have a steelsword.dds file right here on my desktop, ready to go. I open it with Photoshop, and I know how to change the colors of individual pieces, etc. However, I want this sword to look INCREDIBLY detailed in game---high resolution, and with a very detailed normal map. I've read just about every guide I could find on normal maps and texturing, but I can't seem to find a simple answer to my problem here. Is the model simply too low poly count for a large texture to make a difference? I really just don't know! :(

 

 

So... can anyone shed some light on how I can get a beautiful steel sword in Skyrim? :confused:

 

I apologize if this has been addressed in another thread, I couldn't find anything after looking around for quite some time.

[Ghogiel]

1: Paint new texture\ new details into.

 

2: create a high poly model and bake a new normal map. You can't really make a normal map like the vanilla ones on a bitmap to normal conversion.

 

Not necessarily in that order.

[teklanika]

1: Paint new texture\ new details into.

 

2: create a high poly model and bake a new normal map. You can't really make a normal map like the vanilla ones on a bitmap to normal conversion.

 

Not necessarily in that order.

 

 

Can you elaborate a little more on that?

 

1. Should I increase the image size from 512x512 to 1024x1024, then paint in new detail?

 

2. So I DO require a higher poly model than the vanilla models? Bake a new normal map? :ermm:

[Ghogiel]

1: you could do that

 

2: I don't think you get what I mean.

 

You make a high poly model:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/lego-botz/Mechs/newXLengine.jpg

 

then you make a low poly model, the one that you will use in the game

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/lego-botz/Mechs/SummonerLowWire.jpg

then you 'bake' textures, including a normal map from the high poly model onto the low poly model

think of it as just capturing the details from the high poly mesh into the lows texture. And that is all the high poly is good for

So low poly with captured or 'baked' normal map, that is textured...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/lego-botz/Mechs/CWbCK.jpg

 

Edited November 25, 2011 by Ghogiel

[DaedricWarHammer]

No. Resizing the image allows you to use more pixels - thus more detail can be put into the texture. That's the easy part.

You can "generate" your maps using the Photoshop plugin but they're going to look crappy .

 

Thus you should either

 

A - Resize and re-do the default maps manually

B - Find a better automated process for generating these maps

C - Automate the new maps and fix them manually.

 

I'd suggest option A - as you're changing the texture and not the mesh.

You can apply deeper "grooves" and such into your weapons and armor - which will add a little more detail.

[teklanika]

1: you could do that

 

2: I don't think you get what I mean.

 

 

Alright I understand now, thank you!

 

 

No. Resizing the image allows you to use more pixels - thus more detail can be put into the texture. That's the easy part.

You can "generate" your maps using the Photoshop plugin but they're going to look crappy .

 

Thus you should either

 

A - Resize and re-do the default maps manually

B - Find a better automated process for generating these maps

C - Automate the new maps and fix them manually.

 

I'd suggest option A - as you're changing the texture and not the mesh.

You can apply deeper "grooves" and such into your weapons and armor - which will add a little more detail.

 

Alright, so I will bump up the resolution of the texture and paint in the extra detail, then re-size the old map to fit the new texture. What is the best way to do option A---I'd like to get the deeper "grooves" and such, but I have no idea how to go about re-sizing the old map and creating such grooves without using said crappy plugin.

[DaedricWarHammer]

Use the different channels on the default bump map to figure out which colors are presented as "higher" and "lower".

On a greyscale - black is generally "lowest" and white is "highest". A median gray would be the default level.

Thus.. a sword with a black line in the middle would have a groove - a white line would be some.. awkward.. raised.. line.

Be aware - Skyrim also has reflection maps. Black is dull - no reflection. White is super shiny.

[teklanika]

Use the different channels on the default bump map to figure out which colors are presented as "higher" and "lower".

On a greyscale - black is generally "lowest" and white is "highest". A median gray would be the default level.

Thus.. a sword with a black line in the middle would have a groove - a white line would be some.. awkward.. raised.. line.

Be aware - Skyrim also has reflection maps. Black is dull - no reflection. White is super shiny.

 

 

I PM'd both of you, so we can talk much easier. I appreciate the help, but I have to say I'm still very confused. I just want to get the normal map to a state where it can be safely modified to add more detail. This talk of greyscale is confusing me, simply because when I look at the map it's neon, like all other _n files I've seen. Forgive my being naive, but I need much more detail if I'm ever going to figure this stuff out. :unsure:

Edited November 25, 2011 by teklanika

[Falconsflight]

ya.... I need help with this as well lol

[OnlyOneWing]

It would probably be more beneficial to talk about it here, so that the rest of the community can gain some knowledge and prevent the question from having to be asked and answered again.

 

I didn't understand that the different channels on the bump maps actually could raise/ lower or effect shine. I thought that only the alpha channel could effect shine.

 

This is something I am going to try to play with. I'll post my results.