PrometheusTS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 For the morphing I usually start from the _1 and after I use the very same exact model for the _0 midifying with sift selection vertixes and lattice cages to adapt to a _0 model body because for me the somuch monster tool just don't wirk well and same for the mirph targets that are nit precise as a manual edition .... If you still have morph in between the _0 and _1 try to redelete all modifiers and create a new polygonal box convert to poly and attach to it the armor thing after having centered the box then delete the box subelement rename and redo the rig etc... Save and do the modified vertices positions for the other shape and test .... If you still have morph probs try to remove any double planes with vertices cosharing the same position ... Simplify and make tests .... I know how can be frustrating and how there is no helpfrom beth... So the only thing remaining in some situation is just testing and implification ... I took a week to make work an eduted vanilla armor with an not really liked compromise but at least worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamerboy385 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 For the morphing I usually start from the _1 and after I use the very same exact model for the _0 midifying with sift selection vertixes and lattice cages to adapt to a _0 model body because for me the somuch monster tool just don't wirk well and same for the mirph targets that are nit precise as a manual edition .... If you still have morph in between the _0 and _1 try to redelete all modifiers and create a new polygonal box convert to poly and attach to it the armor thing after having centered the box then delete the box subelement rename and redo the rig etc... Save and do the modified vertices positions for the other shape and test .... If you still have morph probs try to remove any double planes with vertices cosharing the same position ... Simplify and make tests .... I know how can be frustrating and how there is no helpfrom beth... So the only thing remaining in some situation is just testing and implification ... I took a week to make work an eduted vanilla armor with an not really liked compromise but at least worked... I'm not going to lie... I have no idea what half of that meant... create a new polygonal box convert to poly and attach to it the armor thing after having centered the box then delete the box subelementWhat box? What "armor thing?" double planes with vertices cosharing the same positionWhat. For the morphing I usually start from the _1 and after I use the very same exact model for the _0 midifying with sift selection vertixes and lattice cages to adapt to a _0 model bodyI got caught up on the spelling of most of this. What does half of this (and everything else you mentioned) do to fix this? A step-by-step process is nice, but being able to understand what it is I'm actually doing is very helpful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrometheusTS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Sorry I m on phone and I can't type better than this for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't know about this box thing either. If you attach objects to you mesh, depending on the order in which they are attached is the order vertices are assigned their number. Basically attaching objects and deleting elements just sounds like a bad idea. In any case I'm not sure what purpose that would fulfil even if you were attaching a box to your mesh then deleting it.. what is that supposed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrometheusTS Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) it fixes the morphing issues of the vanilla editions transforming a vanilla mesh into a new polygon model like if was made from scratch , so the basic simple thing is : 1 remove all the stacked stuff on the mesh 2 create a box and center it 3 convert to polygon4 attach the armor , cloth or whatever indument the mesh is , to the box 5 add the skin modifier and setup6 add the bsdismemberment modifier and setup7 save and export as _0 or _1 8 Make the _0 or the _1 version starting from the same mesh throught vertex soft selection movement using a lattice modifier liek 3 x3 or 4 x 4 ...9 save and export as _1 or _0 ... this way should be no problems in morphing , if there are still they may be caused by vertices using the same position and faces flipped from the usual normal , this is proably a problem introduced by the exporter and not much related to the modeling but to fix it needs to be removed every mirrored and flipped face , and to give eventually a opposite side to planes portions of the mesh then use a shell modifier ..... Edited March 31, 2012 by PROMETHEUS_ts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamerboy385 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 it fixes the morphing issues of the vanilla editions transforming a vanilla mesh into a new polygon model like if was made from scratch , so the basic simple thing is : 1 remove all the stacked stuff on the mesh 2 create a box and center it 3 convert to polygon4 attach the armor , cloth or whatever indument the mesh is , to the box 5 add the skin modifier and setup6 add the bsdismemberment modifier and setup7 save and export as _0 or _1 8 Make the _0 or the _1 version starting from the same mesh throught vertex soft selection movement using a lattice modifier liek 3 x3 or 4 x 4 ...9 save and export as _1 or _0 ... this way should be no problems in morphing , if there are still they may be caused by vertices using the same position and faces flipped from the usual normal , this is proably a problem introduced by the exporter and not much related to the modeling but to fix it needs to be removed every mirrored and flipped face , and to give eventually a opposite side to planes portions of the mesh then use a shell modifier ..... I probably should have said this before, but I'm not using any of the vanilla meshes. I'm using one that I made myself. http://i.imgur.com/Ysh7o.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisRex84 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I checked the Bone weight tables and nothing anywhere with verts with more than 4 bones..I have a feeling you didn't notice the scroll bar at the bottom of the weight table... with a body you have basically a few dozen bones at least, and 1000s of verts. It would be very time consuming to scroll down page after page, stopping at each page to scroll across trying to spot a stray vert weight. I've done this to check very small selections of verts like 20-100. But can't image doing it for a whole character..BRAIN MELT o_O fortunately the fix for the bleed through mesh issue is easy. You can set bone affect limit to 4 in skin. or probably even make skin partition in nifskope, which should work to reduce num of bone weights per vert to 4 and shouldn't mess anything up< if it does mess something up it'll be the BSdismemberpartitions.. but I don't think it does. Can't remember though for sure. As for your morph issue, assuming that when you use a morpher modifier on your mesh... the morph actually works in max> look back some pages in this thread and find where I mention snapshot, using that method should eliminate any potential problem, the exporter does work obviously, if you snapshot out a clone of your mesh in it's morph state then all the issue people have with smoothing or vert error should be shut down. Nah I didnt do it for the whole model, but I did expand the window right across to display all info and none of the selected verts in the problem area had more than 4 bones for sure.. Will give your posts another read through today and get back into getting it to work. Took the last couple of days off from trying to get my head round this, went on a bender and am now majorly hanging (erm if your American, I got really drunk and now hungover). Cheers for keepin on checking this thread out and providing support your a star.. For the morphing I usually start from the _1 and after I use the very same exact model for the _0 midifying with sift selection vertixes and lattice cages to adapt to a _0 model body because for me the somuch monster tool just don't wirk well and same for the mirph targets that are nit precise as a manual edition .... If you still have morph in between the _0 and _1 try to redelete all modifiers and create a new polygonal box convert to poly and attach to it the armor thing after having centered the box then delete the box subelement rename and redo the rig etc... Save and do the modified vertices positions for the other shape and test .... If you still have morph probs try to remove any double planes with vertices cosharing the same position ... Simplify and make tests .... I know how can be frustrating and how there is no helpfrom beth... So the only thing remaining in some situation is just testing and implification ... I took a week to make work an eduted vanilla armor with an not really liked compromise but at least worked... I'm not going to lie... I have no idea what half of that meant... create a new polygonal box convert to poly and attach to it the armor thing after having centered the box then delete the box subelementWhat box? What "armor thing?" double planes with vertices cosharing the same positionWhat. For the morphing I usually start from the _1 and after I use the very same exact model for the _0 midifying with sift selection vertixes and lattice cages to adapt to a _0 model bodyI got caught up on the spelling of most of this. What does half of this (and everything else you mentioned) do to fix this? A step-by-step process is nice, but being able to understand what it is I'm actually doing is very helpful too. Oh how I lol'ed Im with you mate, I know this makes sense to someone whom understands it but I dont.. Looks like where pretty much in the same boat, both of us struggling to get custom (NOT vanilla) meshes into the game.. I will be sure to post back here and PM you if I have any breakthroughs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrometheusTS Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 if u want send me the file and I check whats wrong and if I can fix ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisRex84 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I checked the Bone weight tables and nothing anywhere with verts with more than 4 bones..I have a feeling you didn't notice the scroll bar at the bottom of the weight table... with a body you have basically a few dozen bones at least, and 1000s of verts. It would be very time consuming to scroll down page after page, stopping at each page to scroll across trying to spot a stray vert weight. I've done this to check very small selections of verts like 20-100. But can't image doing it for a whole character..BRAIN MELT o_O fortunately the fix for the bleed through mesh issue is easy. You can set bone affect limit to 4 in skin. or probably even make skin partition in nifskope, which should work to reduce num of bone weights per vert to 4 and shouldn't mess anything up< if it does mess something up it'll be the BSdismemberpartitions.. but I don't think it does. Can't remember though for sure.As for your morph issue, assuming that when you use a morpher modifier on your mesh... the morph actually works in max> look back some pages in this thread and find where I mention snapshot, using that method should eliminate any potential problem, the exporter does work obviously, if you snapshot out a clone of your mesh in it's morph state then all the issue people have with smoothing or vert error should be shut down. To solve the crazy lightning shadows you need to go to the advanced settings of the skin modifier go to bone max number and select 4 then under go to the max weight remove zero weight and set a proper value , I usually set like 0.05 or few more try different settings .... Tjis fixed the crazy shadows.... As for the crazy lightning its visible usually in interiors and affects bethesda vanilla modrls too it can be fixed in the lightning properties of the light source on each interior... if u want send me the file and I check whats wrong and if I can fix ... Thanks you guys.. This: http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j398/ActusReus/Untitled-3.jpg Went from the 4 when it was imported to 20 when I did the skin wrap.. :armscrossed: So changed it back to 4 and got rid of the "bleeding mesh" problem. Thanks a lot.. Just would like to check if my import and export settings are whacked http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j398/ActusReus/Untitled-2.jpg http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j398/ActusReus/Untitled-1.jpg Not played around with the Morph states again (as of yet), now trying to create a half decent dds from a UV Unrap modifier.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrometheusTS Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 yes and don't forget after to remove zero vertices , at least I do it all time at 0.01 after setting to 4 bones as I told you befoure and you correctly showed in the picture .... the morphing I use always the same model as base to not get any weird morphing errors on the vertices .... so Use Lattice modifiers and soft selection on vertexes when moving them around to match the desired shape ... the export settings look fine , when you import it is on what you need if either import the skeleton or not , I usually do import the whole skeleton then work on the skin modifier selecting the needed bones and remove unneeded ones after that itt's on the export where you can remove the extra bones unused ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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