Which faction is the best for humanity?

[CiderMuffin]

everyone knows militaries work "off the books" but on the commander's mind

this is like the first rule of militaries everywhere forever, war never changes!

 

source: I'd rather not get political but does anyone remember bradley/chelsea manning?

or the "bad apples" quote of abu ghraib etc?

the truth is that these aren't special cases in military history the world over throughout time, look at the atomic bombs, bombing of dresden, and remember here that I'm using "our side" as examples, the other sides are often as bad or slightly worse or way worse

 

collective punishment of groups within the roman army that failed to do their duty, something called decimation, 1/10 people chosen and their squad/bunkmates/comrades had to beat them to death themselves - was done for a reason

 

this all said, between the railroad and minutemen, I think the commonwealth would be the best off, the BoS has a tendency to be untrustworthy with their impositions while in play, and the institute is straight out even more egotistical but less direct in getting their hands dirty (making them roughly equal to the BoS) - the railroad and minutemen are more limited, but a lot of the commonwealth has their own way of getting by anyways - with the two big boogiemen gone, things can normalize a bit, and the minutemen are back with a strong leader, the player

and I'm sure they'd learn from their mistakes in this case, the BoS are far too bigoted nowadays, and the institute are so removed from the basics of humanity that they don't even understand the needs of the people of the commonwealth

 

I'll take slightly weak but trustworthy groups (given that they don't lack courage) to do honest work over the trappings of power without ethics anyday, a lot of the raiders are decimated by the game's end anyways, as well as the gunners so another quincy is far less likely to happen, and with time, the various settlements could probably form another provisional commonwealth government without falling apart due to... (if you know you know if you don't, I haven't spoiled)

 

The CPG fell because of infighting between the settlements, not the Institute.

 

 

Also Railroad isn't that trustworthy

They kill off Patriot, someone who has done nothing but help Synths break free from the Institute because he was born in the institute and their entire deal is "freedom for gen 3 synths and not dealing with the consequences for mind-wiping them and then just throwing them out into the wasteland." There is also the fact in the game they seem more out for blood against the Institute then actually helping synths

 

 

BoS has never been untrustworthy at all in any of the games. They're pretty much a straight-forward group, the closest to untrustworthy would be actions done by individual members (Like Teagan and possibly the Sole Survivor) rather then the organization at large. They're also not going to stay in the Commonwealth because why would they? Their entire thing was fighting the Institute and collecting tech. The most likely outcome is they leave a few months after they win.

 

Minutemen are, again, the only group in the Commonwealth that's goal is developing settlements and protecting people. Everyone else is about their own goals. Institute is about self-sufficiency, BoS is about preventing another great war-like scenario and finding tech, Railroad is about freeing synths. None of them are about developing the wasteland or creating a government in the Commonwealth.

Edited August 27, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[robhartman9]

The minutemen look good on paper but those morons cant do anything on their own. They wander around aimlessly staring at walls for hours then congregate on rooftops. You give them power armor to help them protect a settlement and they leave it out in the open where raiders can jump in and use it against them. The BOS has every reason to feel superior they don't leave powerful technology laying around for the enemy to obtain at will. The minutemen have proven themselves to be incapable. The nefarious acts of the institute have proven they are worthy of destruction. The railroad is only concerned with the welfare of synths so they offer no valid aid to the commonwealth. Like it or not there is only one group with any hope of making a difference. Ad Victorium.

[tartarsauce2]

I don't care if it's offtopic or a banned topic, this is my answer, swap names if you must
for the record, in the spanish civil war, people claimed the anarchists (POUM and so on) couldn't do anything right either but they were the ones that had done all the work in the fight against the fascists until backstabbed by the communists
https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4801120-im-so-angry-i-dont-even-know-what-to-say-its-just-wow-i-just-need-to-say-something/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia

railroad and minutemen are the only trustworthy ones

the PCG fell to infighting because their leaders were assassinated by a synth from the institute

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[cossayos]

I don't care if it's offtopic or a banned topic, this is my answer, swap names if you must

for the record, in the spanish civil war, people claimed the anarchists (POUM and so on) couldn't do anything right either but they were the ones that had done all the work in the fight against the fascists until backstabbed by the communists

 

 

Since this touches my personal family history with one of my grand uncles having been a Republican general in Spain, the borders between factions weren't as clear cut as this. They overlapped.

[tartarsauce2]

 

I don't care if it's offtopic or a banned topic, this is my answer, swap names if you must

for the record, in the spanish civil war, people claimed the anarchists (POUM and so on) couldn't do anything right either but they were the ones that had done all the work in the fight against the fascists until backstabbed by the communists

 

 

Since this touches my personal family history with one of my grand uncles having been a Republican general in Spain, the borders between factions weren't as clear cut as this. They overlapped.

 

of course they did, orwell admitted as much, to the point where him and some of the foot soldiers sent after him and his kind were exchanging food or something, but the point still stands, the institute betrayed everyone and the brotherhood of steel is inherently abusive with its semi-new racist absolutist creed

 

so, when I get to the point where I choose, I'm going to kill them both off

I'm going to exterminate both groups

Edited August 27, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[cossayos]

 

of course they did, orwell admitted as much, to the point where him and some of the foot soldiers sent after him and his kind were exchanging food or something, but the point still stands, the institute betrayed everyone and the brotherhood of steel is inherently abusive with its semi-new racist absolutist creed

 

 

As I said earlier. You have to employ your own imagination on things to come. I never went with the BOS, since they seemed abyssmal bigots right from the start. But the Institute? Shaun dies and you're taking over. It's up to you what you make of the situation. With this being a Bethesda game, you can't play it out, of course, but everyone say, you're the one to lead them. That's the imagination part.

[tartarsauce2]

the thing about the institute is that it is what it is regardless of who the top supplicant is, every member is enslaved to every other member and as a collective they ignore the wellbeing of those in the commonwealth in favour of the IDEA of their wellbeing sometime in the distant future etc

those technologies weren't used to aid the common weal, they were used for the institute to carry on for the institute's sake, they turned their back on humanity at large a long time ago, vault-88 might be paranoid and insular, but they at least didn't go the distance and then think they should manipulate everyone from the shadows on top of that

The English noun "commonwealth" in the sense meaning "public welfare; general good or advantage" dates from the 15th century. The original phrase "the common-wealth" or "the common weal" (echoed in the modern synonym "public weal") comes from the old meaning of "wealth", which is "well-being"

Edited August 28, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[charwo]

What's all this about the Spanish Civil War? Cause the thing is, the Spanish Civil War doesn't apply: Maxon isn't interested in real governance to be a Franco and the Institute while running an an intelligence operation that the NKVD would be proud of also isn't interested in real governance either.

If I thought Maxon was as interested in peace and rebuilding as Franco was in in the 40s and 50s, I'd say the Brotherhood would be the way to go. But if Maxon was truly interested in peace and rebuilding, he'd have staid home and every Knight not involved in patrolling the wastes would be deployed to reconstruction duty, demolishing what couldn't be saved, re-excavating the metro tunnels, building enough housing for all the refugees that would come flooding in and all it's resources would be focused on education and scientific agriculture to make sure that DC, now pacified becomes the great beacon of progress and hope and safety in the region, must like New Vegas or San Fransisco or New Arroyo. Like his ideology or not that's what Franco did, and instead Maxon has elected to build the biggest army his limited resources will allow and then go glory-hounding in Massachusetts, 400 miles away from his base of operations.

 

The best hope is the SS changing the culture of the Institute and coordinating Institute and Minutemen forces to drive the raiders from the Boston area, while rebuilding and fortifying the city quickly as possible. Of course, once the mods allow it, is to convince the RR to go underground in lieu of being slaughtered, then restricting synth production to Gen-2. Otherwise between the RR and the Minutemen, you basically have the same ending, the Commonwealth starting to build from foundation one, which is still better than what Maxon will do.

[CiderMuffin]

What's all this about the Spanish Civil War? Cause the thing is, the Spanish Civil War doesn't apply: Maxon isn't interested in real governance to be a Franco and the Institute while running an an intelligence operation that the NKVD would be proud of also isn't interested in real governance either.

 

If I thought Maxon was as interested in peace and rebuilding as Franco was in in the 40s and 50s, I'd say the Brotherhood would be the way to go. But if Maxon was truly interested in peace and rebuilding, he'd have staid home and every Knight not involved in patrolling the wastes would be deployed to reconstruction duty, demolishing what couldn't be saved, re-excavating the metro tunnels, building enough housing for all the refugees that would come flooding in and all it's resources would be focused on education and scientific agriculture to make sure that DC, now pacified becomes the great beacon of progress and hope and safety in the region, must like New Vegas or San Fransisco or New Arroyo. Like his ideology or not that's what Franco did, and instead Maxon has elected to build the biggest army his limited resources will allow and then go glory-hounding in Massachusetts, 400 miles away from his base of operations.

 

The best hope is the SS changing the culture of the Institute and coordinating Institute and Minutemen forces to drive the raiders from the Boston area, while rebuilding and fortifying the city quickly as possible. Of course, once the mods allow it, is to convince the RR to go underground in lieu of being slaughtered, then restricting synth production to Gen-2. Otherwise between the RR and the Minutemen, you basically have the same ending, the Commonwealth starting to build from foundation one, which is still better than what Maxon will do.

Except everything you just stated can't be proven he isn't doing that. We don't know if the BoS have limited resources because we don't know the state of D.C.

 

It's entirely possible that under him the BoS grew to be a huge organization in D.C. that managed to gain enough troops and scribes to be able to focus on D.C. while being able to focus on a campaign somewhere else. The schism between the BoS and Outcasts was fixed, there is an active recruitment policy and the BoS have an entire airforce to move supplies. If anything the troops we see may not even be half of the BoS's true strength. So everything in your post is nothing but baseless speculation.

Edited August 29, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[bmt12]

The minuteman, assuming that you as their general don't turn out to be power hungry tyrant who institutes a military dictatorship. When you encounter them they have no central leadership structure and operate on a settlement by settlement basis, presumably in time as settlements would grow civilian governments would form and they would eventually become the police force or official military of each.They don't have the technology that other factions do but they don't kill you for seeking it or try to replace dissidents with synths so the civilians of each settlement would be free to rebuild society.

 

The institute are dicks, to be frank. A stereotypical group who sees their image of the future where they are the only ones there. Also apparently they've never watched or read any scifi or else they would know that their synths will naturally turn on them.

 

The Railroad is a reactive organization that would cease to exist along with the institute, they have one focus and it has nothing to do with improving quality of life or stabilizing the world.

 

The BoS of FO3 were a somewhat painfully altruistic group, the new guard are worse than the western groups and while they may keep everyone as relatively safe as they currently are they would hamper future growth.

Edited August 29, 2016 by bmt12