Handofbane Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 There could be worse options, and there could be better solutions, Steam just happens to be the one they chose to go with. In an ideal world, they could have gone with the CDProjekt solution - release the game with an initial DRM to prevent the game unlocking before the official release, then patching to strip all DRM from all existing copies of The Witcher 2 (boy did that stir up a massive stink, and even got them sued by Namco Bandai in Europe). In a worst case scenario, they could have gone with what we know failed - Games For Windows Live, the monstrosity that actually made Fallout 3 run slower, and caused one of the most popular downloads to be the GFWL Disabler (over 40k unique downloads on the Nexus). @Brittainy - I can fully respect that you just don't want to deal with it at all, and hope that we can all get someday to where none of us have to worry about any kind of DRM or failed anti-piracy measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keastkannegaard Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Ofc no kind of pirate protecting would be best, but let me ask you, how many of you let your unlocked car stay in the middle of a big city with the car keys in it? and how many of you do expect the car the still be there when you come back 2 days later? That's basicly what you are asking all the developers to do and ofc that's not going to happen. I see Steam as the best solution, even tho steam got huge flaws, but what are the alternative? Only trouble with that analogy is that Steam / DRM / alternate forms of protection don't work in the first place. :whistling: It's a useless token gesture, so yes they might as well just hand out the keys because all they're doing is pissing off legitimate users. Steam does nothing to stop piracy. It's not a solution at all. It's fluff. Keys also not prevent car theft, so why do we have them? If someone wants to steal a car keys aren't needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bluejay Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Ofc no kind of pirate protecting would be best, but let me ask you, how many of you let your unlocked car stay in the middle of a big city with the car keys in it? and how many of you do expect the car the still be there when you come back 2 days later? That's basicly what you are asking all the developers to do and ofc that's not going to happen. I see Steam as the best solution, even tho steam got huge flaws, but what are the alternative? Only trouble with that analogy is that Steam / DRM / alternate forms of protection don't work in the first place. :whistling: It's a useless token gesture, so yes they might as well just hand out the keys because all they're doing is pissing off legitimate users. Steam does nothing to stop piracy. It's not a solution at all. It's fluff. Keys also not prevent car theft, so why do we have them? If someone wants to steal a car keys aren't needed. Judging by the large amount of friends who acquired Skyrim with a conspicuous lack of money being exchanged (who then proceded to laugh themselves silly while Steam broke the game I paid for, whilst they sat back and played how they wanted, when they wanted with all the patches and mods they wanted) the keys are so ineffective, easily copied or just faked with a hairpin, they might as well not exist. Although thinking about it, the key analogy doesn't work at all. Edited December 19, 2011 by The Bluejay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiast Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) how many of you let your unlocked car stay in the middle of a big city with the car keys in it? If whoever I am locking my car away from would only copy it so that my car isn't gone afterwards....why would i care? I am sure you see where this analogy has its "flaws". and caused one of the most popular downloads to be the GFWL Disabler (over 40k unique downloads on the Nexus). Can somebody tell me why its considered "illegal" to publish a "Steam disabler" but its ok to do it with GFWL? I have really difficulties getting that! Edited December 20, 2011 by Arcadiast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handofbane Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 and caused one of the most popular downloads to be the GFWL Disabler (over 40k unique downloads on the Nexus). Can somebody tell me why its considered "illegal" to publish a "Steam disabler" but its ok to do it with GFWL? I have really difficulties getting that!Probably because the GFWL disabler wasn't so much a disabler/remover as it forced GFWL into what is essentially an offline mode, something GFWL did not have - it did not alter the game's exe file at all (which would likely be required of any hypothetical Steam disabler). GFWL was notorious for consuming so much processing power it literally slowed down the game and caused massive unstability/crashes for a huge number of users. Looking at it in hindsight, this also helped cause Bethesda to give up on GFWL completely and shift to Steam, well that and Microsoft effectively considering it to be a failure on their end too after massive user outcry. And before anyone comes in and says "well they should do the same with Steam!", Bethesda used New Vegas as their Steam testbed, and still chose to go with Steam for Skyrim - meaning they felt it did not impede the game itself from being played in any significant way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasS Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I like steam: It hardly effects my computers CPU, runs a friend communication system ingame, enables me to download games rather than risk needing/damaging the disk, I can look up help for glitches/quests/freezes while ingame, and I can promise you that when Skyrim Online reaches full version; steam will make it easier to find and chill with your friends I dont see why people keep complaining about it? so it's an overlay? its free updates that you dont have to keep searching for, if you don't like its popups there is probably a way to turn them off. Steam is the future, more cloud less hardcopy I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittainy Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) and caused one of the most popular downloads to be the GFWL Disabler (over 40k unique downloads on the Nexus). Can somebody tell me why its considered "illegal" to publish a "Steam disabler" but its ok to do it with GFWL? I have really difficulties getting that!Probably because the GFWL disabler wasn't so much a disabler/remover as it forced GFWL into what is essentially an offline mode, something GFWL did not have - it did not alter the game's exe file at all (which would likely be required of any hypothetical Steam disabler). GFWL was notorious for consuming so much processing power it literally slowed down the game and caused massive unstability/crashes for a huge number of users. Looking at it in hindsight, this also helped cause Bethesda to give up on GFWL completely and shift to Steam, well that and Microsoft effectively considering it to be a failure on their end too after massive user outcry. And before anyone comes in and says "well they should do the same with Steam!", Bethesda used New Vegas as their Steam testbed, and still chose to go with Steam for Skyrim - meaning they felt it did not impede the game itself from being played in any significant way. This isn't intended to be offensive, but I don't exactly trust Bethesda's judgement when it comes to what impedes the playing of their own games - or the performance of them ^ :happy: We are talking about the people who just released a game on the pc which couldn't use more than 2gb of memory. (And took countless complaints before they patched it up...) Not to mention the incredibly faulty UI. That implies to me they are completely clueless as to performance / playability impediments in their own games. Therefore their faith in Steam is highly questionable at best ^ If they think it's 'good', I'd say their opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. Edited December 20, 2011 by Brittainy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittainy Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I like steam: It hardly effects my computers CPU, runs a friend communication system ingame, enables me to download games rather than risk needing/damaging the disk, I can look up help for glitches/quests/freezes while ingame, and I can promise you that when Skyrim Online reaches full version; steam will make it easier to find and chill with your friends I dont see why people keep complaining about it? so it's an overlay? its free updates that you dont have to keep searching for, if you don't like its popups there is probably a way to turn them off. Steam is the future, more cloud less hardcopy I say If Steam is the future I'll stick with the past, thank you very much ^ :whistling: Steam as the future of gaming = A steaming pile of...well...you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiast Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I dont see why people keep complaining about it? Let me ask you something, can you play Skyrim legally without Steam? No? Do you see now? more cloud less hardcopy I say I would say that, when I wanted to gather information from People to sell or to use otherwise, I would say that, if I would work on Cloudbased Solutions and get my Money from it, I would say that, if I wanted to take Control away from individuals and concentrate them on Corporations or Government. Since I am unfortunately on the other Side of the Shore, I have to wait and see for myself what benefits me most. On which side would you consider yourself sitting on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasS Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Let me ask you something, can you play Skyrim legally without Steam? No? Do you see now?Actually yes, if you install the original copy and run it by TESV.exe you can, you dont need steam but you cant get the updates without it I would say that, when I wanted to gather information from People to sell or to use otherwise, I would say that, if I would work on Cloudbased Solutions and get my Money from it, I would say that, if I wanted to take Control away from individuals and concentrate them on Corporations or Government. Since I am unfortunately on the other Side of the Shore, I have to wait and see for myself what benefits me most. On which side would you consider yourself sitting on?Governement and corporations. I'm a games developer and my dad is a military IT officer. We both agree that the cloud is much safer for our line of work than hardcopy, for the integrity of the information anyway This isn't intended to be offensive, but I don't exactly trust Bethesda's judgement when it comes to what impedes the playing of their own games - or the performance of them ^ :happy: We are talking about the people who just released a game on the pc which couldn't use more than 2gb of memory. (And took countless complaints before they patched it up...) Not to mention the incredibly faulty UI. That implies to me they are completely clueless as to performance / playability impediments in their own games. Therefore their faith in Steam is highly questionable at best ^ If they think it's 'good', I'd say their opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.Most games are now being made for Console and then ported to PC afterwards, this is why PC needs extensive patching, don't blame steam for bethesda's stupidity, steam is doing their best to regulate distribution of games and patches and present feedback about such games to the developers. the 2gb problem is bethesda not steam. console not PC, dont blame the people here to fix the problem Edited December 20, 2011 by AtlasS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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