Qwinn´s Ultimate DAO Fixpack v3 (no longer beta!)

[AdenYeshua]

Finished the intro with the Dwarven Noble, with nothing really of note. Everything looks in order, even romanced the noble hunters both of them and I see Gorim comments. Also I spared Lord Daces Son, as well as took the dagger of shock which Trian comments on. Very very nicely done.

 

Only very small thing in this area is when I entered the deep roads after being exiled it threw my equipment all over in various slots. Only took me a minute to adjust anyway...

 

I'm at the Kokari Wilds now and I can say that all the triggers work very nicely Alistar does indeed warn you.

 

One more anticipated issue is the Mages Chest which I have yet to open, I forgot to mention that the game takes the key when it is clearly meant to be kept as the return to Ostigar and cant open the chest. There is another fix on here that lets you run a script manually. But I just thought I give a heads up.

[Qwinn]

Woohoo, great to hear it all worked out. Sounds like the equip thing in the deep roads is the same as at the very beginning of the origin. Easy fix for v3.1, will just stop it from equipping DLC there as well, thanks for the report!

 

Btw, did you plot to kill Trian? If you did, and you plan on siding with Harrowmont, you'll miss out on a huge restoration in Orzammar later on. If you plan on siding with Bhelen I don't think it'll matter much. I'd back up and not-plot if you did and you want to see Bhelen pay - you'll probably be the first person ever to see how it was supposed to play out after me! Hehe.

 

As for the mage chest key - my problem with just not removing the key is that both chests contain like the same 7 items, with an additional staff in RtO. If you take those first 7 items, why would they still be there later? If I could empty the chest of all but the staff, then yep, just keeping the key would be the way to go, but I can't, cause encrypted. So I added a closing journal entry should you arrive at Flemeth's hut with it still in your possession. Just hold on to the key and it'll work out.

 

I suspect they intended the staff to be a reward for those who decided *not* to steal from the good guys *shrug*. In that context, I guess it's not really a "metagaming knowledge required" reward, it's a "properly roleplaying honesty" reward.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Qwinn

[AdenYeshua]

I did the "good" route and not plotted to kill the brother. Good to know I won't have to start over... as for the mages quest I think I remember the quest showing up as failing if I didn't open it, but if it doesn't I have no problem waiting.

[shades01]

Alistair darkspawn warnings are triggering ok, except one on the hill (near where wolves and darkspawn are fighting) which triggered after I killed the darkspawn. No other issues...

[Qwinn]

"except one on the hill (near where wolves and darkspawn are fighting) which triggered after I killed the darkspawn"

 

Argh, yes, I knew that one would be the problem, if any. The issue is that the stealthed darkspawn are on this little island/cul-de-sac below where the darkspawn and wolves are fighting. If you come up to that fight from one side, that little island will sometimes aggro with the rest of them, and sometimes not, depending on how close you get to it. And if they aggro with the rest of them, then you are hitting the trigger while already in combat, in which case the trigger technically shouldn't fire (at least, according to the original trigger script, which I didn't change). Then when combat ends, the trigger fires. On the other hand, if your entire party is using bows (a tactic I use often), it IS possible to clear out every normal darkspawn and wolf in the area without hitting the trigger or aggroing the stealthed darkspawn in the cul-de-sac. So, the trigger needs to stay active in that case, which limits the options on how to resolve this.

 

I've been thinking about it all day, and while I was originally thinking that I might have to do a really convoluted script and changing of that specific band of stealthed darkspawn's combat team to register when they're dead and turn off the trigger at that time, I now think a much cleaaner solution may simply be to have the warnings fire even if already in combat. Just because you have a few visible darkspawn doesn't mean a warning that there's a few more stealthed ones about to pop up and attack you is out of place or unnecessary. That's how I'm leaning on resolving it now anyways, but will have to test it to see how it goes.

 

Thanks for the reports!

Edited June 12, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

AdenYeshua, just a heads up - the Fallen Templar change to Fallen Knight has been challenged as a legitimate fix - see the Posts tab under the mod. I'm going to request that you guys argue for your respective sides (here in this thread, preferably, not there - I'd prefer to keep the posts tab as lean as possible) and I'll watch the exchange and come to a decision.

[AdenYeshua]

I explained before but I will attempt to do so more coherently... If he/she chooses to do so here is a different story.

 

His "argument" is that the Templar was given a title by presumably the Arl of Redcliffe. That he was still a part of the Chantry just working with the knight and not in service to Redcliffe.

 

While there is nothing set in stone that says you cannot be a knight and a Templar in the world of Dragon Age just yet, it opens up a plethora of plot holes and unexplained instances if one is allowed to do so. There are a few things that Bioware overlooked that is why this patch is needed. That is why I will attempt to explain...

 

Templars devote themselves to the Maker and the Chantry. Forsaking profit or recognition. Both of which you get as being a knight under the service of an Arl. - The most important and yet lore breaking thing about this suggestion is that; what happens when one gets conflicting orders? What if you were ordered by the Arl to be somewhere and the Chantry wanted you somewhere else? One sworn oath would have to be broken.

 

His name is Ser Henric and he's a knight of Redcliffe, sent by Alessa Isolde, along with his companion Ser Donall, to find the Urn of Sacred Ashes to cure Arl Eamon. Now, for a moment the implications of the Templars Officially helping the Arlessa... where is the rest of this joint operation? Why does the Chantry seemingly only send ONE knight to help? With the chantry help that would suggest the Chantry has a vested interest in the health of the Arl. I can see nothing else in the story that suggests this. Furthermore disturbing the ashes, in my opinion, is just something the chantry wouldn't be interested in, Arl of Ferelden or not.

 

Finally, at the time Alessa Isolde was trying to hide her child from the Chantry, this would suggest very heavily that she does not want the church involved, not go into a joint operation with them.

 

Of course, all of these unanswered questions and plot holes come to a close by simply changing this.

 

Edit: Also, his note states he has to report to Ser Donall meaning if he has to submit reports to him he's part of the Hierarchy of Redcliffe. I doubt very highly that Isolde had the power to order the Chantry's knight around.

Edited June 13, 2017 by AdenYeshua

[Thandal]

Ok, am back home from EA Play 2017. Total gas! Had tons of fun and was blown away by the looks I got at all the games I never play. For those who are into Battlefield, BF1 - In the Name of the Tsar will become a must-have. For StarWars - Battlefront players, BattleFront 2 -- same. NFS - Payback -- same. Big surprise reveal was BioWare's Anthem (coming Nov 2018.) Well of course I'll be getting it. :thumbsup: SIMS, and all the sports games... Who cares? (jk :tongue: ) NFL 2018 Mobile was my favourite amongst those.

 

(@Qwinn; Also talked to a few QA folk from DICE and got one to take down a link to this thread, but no one from BioWare present since no BioWare games being demo'd. Am emailing snippet and link to full thread to a Senior Producer and others whose address I have.)

 

Now have the v3.0 OB downloaded, removed all potentially conflicting "fix" mods (I think) and am ready to start a new game. Saw that Dalish Rogue, Dwarf Noble, and Human Noble are all being played, so leaning toward Dwarf Commoner or City Elf now. Haven't done either one in a very long time.

 

(Unrelated question: Any reason BSC might interfere with testing? :whistling: )

[Qwinn]

Mmm, if it only changes .cut and .cub files, I don't see why it would. I do fix Alistair's kiss cutscenes when he confesses his love though, and if he had a conflict with Dialog Tweaks at some point, it's possible. You playing male or female? If male, probably no worries.

 

And thanks for sending the emails! Hope to hear back.

 

And well argued AdenYeshua. That last point is particularly good, I didn't think of that, it does sound like Ser Donall outranks him.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Qwinn

[ViktoriaLanders]

I explained before but I will attempt to do so more coherently... If he/she chooses to do so here is a different story.

 

His "argument" is that the Templar was given a title by presumably the Arl of Redcliffe. That he was still a part of the Chantry just working with the knight and not in service to Redcliffe.

 

While there is nothing set in stone that says you cannot be a knight and a Templar in the world of Dragon Age just yet, it opens up a plethora of plot holes and unexplained instances if one is allowed to do so. There are a few things that Bioware overlooked that is why this patch is needed. That is why I will attempt to explain...

 

Templars devote themselves to the Maker and the Chantry. Forsaking profit or recognition. Both of which you get as being a knight under the service of an Arl. - The most important and yet lore breaking thing about this suggestion is that; what happens when one gets conflicting orders? What if you were ordered by the Arl to be somewhere and the Chantry wanted you somewhere else? One sworn oath would have to be broken.

 

His name is Ser Henric and he's a knight of Redcliffe, sent by Alessa Isolde, along with his companion Ser Donall, to find the Urn of Sacred Ashes to cure Arl Eamon. Now, for a moment the implications of the Templars Officially helping the Arlessa... where is the rest of this joint operation? Why does the Chantry seemingly only send ONE knight to help? With the chantry help that would suggest the Chantry has a vested interest in the health of the Arl. I can see nothing else in the story that suggests this. Furthermore disturbing the ashes, in my opinion, is just something the chantry wouldn't be interested in, Arl of Ferelden or not.

 

Finally, at the time Alessa Isolde was trying to hide her child from the Chantry, this would suggest very heavily that she does not want the church involved, not go into a joint operation with them.

 

Of course, all of these unanswered questions and plot holes come to a close by simply changing this.

 

Edit: Also, his note states he has to report to Ser Donall meaning if he has to submit reports to him he's part of the Hierarchy of Redcliffe. I doubt very highly that Isolde had the power to order the Chantry's knight around.

 

Here I am :smile:

 

His Her "argument" is that this man wears Templar Armor and the quest is called "A Fallen Templar". I think that's enough evidence on its own but let's go deeper if you want.

 

---

 

"You cannot be a knight and a Templar in the world of Dragon Age"

 

David Gaider: Templars take vows upon knighthood, but these do not include a vow of chastity. Templars are nevertheless discouraged from marrying or raising children since it is impractical to live apart from ones' dependents. Such unions are occasionally permitted, provided that the templar's spouse has his or her own means of support, for example, owning land or a title.

 

Oh and here is a few ranks above the plain "Templar" one (actually all known ranks): Knight Corporal, Knight Lieutenant, Knight Captain, Knight Commander, Knight Divine, Knight Vigilant.

 

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"Templars forsake profit or recognition"

 

Actually many poor people join the Templar Order to live a wealthier life as indicated in DA2 (Keran being one example). And Carver joins the Templar Order in Act2 because he wants to escape Hawke's shadow. But let's go to your biggest argument here:

 

" The most important and yet lore breaking thing about this suggestion is that; what happens when one gets conflicting orders? What if you were ordered by the Arl to be somewhere and the Chantry wanted you somewhere else? One sworn oath would have to be broken."

 

Why do you think this operation could not have been approved by the local Redcliffe Chantry? The beloved Arl was sick at a time when his leadership was absolutely needed. Isolde sent some of her husband's knight to search for the Urn and obviously the Chantry wanted to keep a close eye on their activities so they provided them with one or perhaps more Templars who were nonetheless valuable in such an expedition because of their deep knowledge of the Chantry's history.

 

---

 

"Now, for a moment the implications of the Templars Officially helping the Arlessa... where is the rest of this joint operation? Why does the Chantry seemingly only send ONE knight to help? With the chantry help that would suggest the Chantry has a vested interest in the health of the Arl. I can see nothing else in the story that suggests this. Furthermore disturbing the ashes, in my opinion, is just something the chantry wouldn't be interested in, Arl of Ferelden or not."

 

Most of these points were answered above. To add here: One went with Ser Donall, we do not know how many they sent. As for the ashes why should the Chantry not be interested in uncovering perhaps the holiest of all relics? Isn't Genitivi a Chantry Brother who spent his life searching for the Urn?

 

---

 

"Finally, at the time Alessa Isolde was trying to hide her child from the Chantry, this would suggest very heavily that she does not want the church involved, not go into a joint operation with them."

 

Her knights going in a life-saving mission with the templars to cure her husband has nothing to do with her child living in the Castle. If anything, there would be less templars in Redcliffe since some of them departed with the knights.

 

---

 

"Also, his note states he has to report to Ser Donall meaning if he has to submit reports to him he's part of the Hierarchy of Redcliffe."

 

Not necessarily. The local Chantry or their local Knight Commander Harrith could have ordered the templars to assist the Arl's knights in their expedition, and not lead them.

 

---

 

"His name is Ser Henric and he's a knight of Redcliffe"

 

Now this is your best argument, all the other ones were false or could have been interpreted either way. There are two possible counter-arguments: One is that Ser Henric was knighted by the Arl of Redcliffe (for unknown services rendered) probably before he joined the Templar Order. The other explanation is that the writing team made an error when they wrote his note, misinterpreting his name's title "Ser" as a Knight of Redcliffe.

 

 

 

So to summarize the main argument of the vanilla side is the Templar Armor of the corpse and the name of the Quest, the main argument of the opposing side is that he is called as a "Knight of Recliffe" in the note. Personally, I'd lean in favor of the vanilla game and not proceed with the change since it's more than ambiguous to consider this as a "bug" based on the strict criteria imposed by the author of this mod.

Edited June 13, 2017 by ViktoriaLanders