Normal maps not being read

[MrDave]

Howdy! :D

I did an Atlantean due to the other ones being removed... my normal map isn't being read by the game. I've got other items in game and they are working just fine (well fine after I got rid of their environment maps), so I have no idea what's up with it.

If I use a copied default steel sword list to set up the BSLightingShaderProperty, I get a solid black model with a specular map.

If I copy/paste a list from a weapon I imported, I get the texture and specular, but the normal map still isn't read.

Is there something new that's been done as to how normal maps are being handled?

I even added in a parallax map, but that did no good. :(

[Ghogiel]

I don't know exactly what work flow you are using to make your nifs. to start with make sure it actually has normals. these are stored in the NiTriShapeData block. There is a flag that should be 4097. And make sure to Update tangent space toproperly calculate the other tangent vectors.

 

Note the steel weapons use one of the environment map shaders, It seems for some reason that you need vertex colors to for these to render correctly. probably the reason for the black thing.

 

Just blanking the env map and the mask map slots in the texture set would probably be unwise and still use the environment map shader, I have not pushed it, but in some engines a default map or effect gets thrown on there when there is an absence of the proper input maps. I recommend using the iron weapons shader instead, which iirc don't have env maps. Edit: scratch that, not iron weapons, try the iron armor

 

To get parallax to work you'd need to set up a parallax shader properly, it's not a case of just adding the maps to the right slots. I have in fact experimented with them in Skyrim and the one shader I was trying wasn't working how I wanted/expected. I don't think many people really know what does what with parallax yet.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Ghogiel

[MrDave]

I'll try the iron one here in a moment. Thank you :)

My pipeline is the same as it's always been: Build, UVW map in Max, create texture, test, export .obj, open existing similar default item, replace mesh via import .obj, restructure hierarchy, test, swear a lot, change hierarchy, test agian, drink Guinness in celebration. I don't bother with vertex colors for basic items, so that would explain why simply removing the _m maps from the texture list worked. The only issue leaving the environs in caused was my dead wood handle was shiny.

 

EDIT: No change with the iron paste in.

The only option for Has Normals is a boolean which is set to yes, with the list of normals below that.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Mr. Dave

[Ghogiel]

I don't bother with vertex colors for basic items, so that would explain why simply removing the _m maps from the texture list worked. The only issue leaving the environs in caused was my dead wood handle was shiny.

Nah you don't need to be doing anything to the vertex color beside flood filling them all white. It's a shader requirement to have vertex color, it's not an artistic choice or anything. Make your own env mask map to mask off the wood handle from the environment maps effect, that's what it's for. Solid black out the wood bit and you will get a different material definition in the same shader and on the same maps.

 

EDIT: No change with the iron paste in.

The only option for Has Normals is a boolean which is set to yes, with the list of normals below that.

Tried the iron armor not the weapons....? :unsure:

 

But the normals thing, yeah the boolean to yes, but above that is BS Num UV Sets, people tell me it needs to be set at 4097 for the Update TS spell to work. If you have tangents and binormals and the array looks all right, then you should be good in that regard.

[MrDave]

Yeah on the environ maps, I'm sadly all too familiar with them... just more bloat as far as I'm concerned. We already have specular maps. I've used them at work a number of times over the years (although when I can, I just render things out with the evil R word reflects). Thing is, with Skyrim they are keeping everything uniformly shiny regardless of value, so I'm doing away with them.

 

I'll try the armor paste... YAY lol that did the trick. Strange, weapon pastes don't work, yet armor pastes do...

 

My other items in game are working with their default settings of 1, so I'm thinking that 4097 number isn't real. :P

 

Thank you, I never would have thought to use an armor paste instead, since it shouldn't ever make a difference. The first item I put in has new, default lighting shaders from right clicking and adding new... not sure why it worked. The second has from steel weapons and I had to delete the environs. It seems each item is going to have some unique issue, even though they are all the same, relatively speaking.

 

Side note: my normal map for the handle is way too busy. :D I'd post a pick, but I keep getting errors saying I'm over my global upload limit, even though I'm not.

[Ghogiel]

Thing is, with Skyrim they are keeping everything uniformly shiny regardless of value, so I'm doing away with them.

It shouldn't. It works for me just fine.

My other items in game are working with their default settings of 1, so I'm thinking that 4097 number isn't real. :P

Apparently it's requirement for the update tangent spell to actually work, its not a thing the game needs. Because I have done the same and have it as 1. a nifskope quirk work around thing not a game engine thing, you know you love those. I haven't bothered with that one either, as I am getting exports from max as a nif and not doing obj imports any more. So it's slightly different in my case.

 

 

Thank you, I never would have thought to use an armor paste instead, since it shouldn't ever make a difference.

Well the shader is the default shader on the armor, you can't really go wrong with that. The iron/steel weapons are different, and the behaviour you described with it black is how it should work. How you managed to get it working without vertex color using those shaders before is the real mystery to me. :tongue:

Edited December 18, 2011 by Ghogiel

[MrDave]

Can I blame the uniformly shiny thing on Vista? I know somewhere along the line it's all Gates' fault. ;)

 

If you just right mouse click and hit Mesh-> face normals, then Mesh-> smooth normals (since the vaunted obj hoses them), then Mesh-> update tangent space, it works like a champ. Maybe it just needs the 4097 to go through the batch function?

 

I think just the removal of the environs was what changed it from black to textured. Still didn't cure the normal issue though lol, so steel weapon pastes are right out. :D

 

Gona go get this thing up for people... the old ones never should have been taken down lol.

[Ghogiel]

smooth normals (since the vaunted obj hoses them), then Mesh-> update tangent space, it works like a champ. Maybe it just needs the 4097 to go through the batch function?

That should shouldn't be an issue either, even obj imports. Something fishy there. :unsure:

 

about the 4097 thing. If you want to see what I am saying, open the iron armor, UV sets> change it from 4097 to 1. Notice that the normal map no longer renders in nifskope.

 

I haven't updated my nifskope in like a week or something.. so maybe it's different in new versions.

[MrDave]

I just updated NifSkope, but haven't told it to auto detect paths. I got so used to that feature not working all through F3 and FNV that I just don't bother lol. I've never gotten to see normal maps rendered in NifSkope. :(

 

I'm staying with Max9. I've used Max2010 and up and they suck so bad as to cause Tourette syndrome... I mean even my computer swears. How a group of professional devs could break so badly as to render useless, basic things like lighting and pelt mapping is beyond me. Anyway, the obj tools I have on this rig are default and ruin smoothing groups. The GW ones work great, I just haven't installed them yet on here.

 

The model's up, if ya wanna check it out. :)

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4010

Be warned, I hand painted the texture... which is for chumps I may say. Give me procedural any day!

Edited December 18, 2011 by Mr. Dave

[Ghogiel]

2010/11 SUCK... imo :biggrin:

 

Oh gawd man... you just get to a point and know too much stupid s*** in max lol. I thought this pelt map thing was just me... I'm like looking around thinking, is this not obviously worse? every time I pelt map now, I have to click to expand this options menu, then click a button that says select stretcher... I'm like can't I have control back please, I feel so removed from the thing now. They added extra steps for no reason. every time I'm FUUUUUuuuu! then I have to get my free transfrom gizmo or something. I wouldn't care if I could by pass that with custom UI, but have no idea with that one :rolleyes: