LE Bow Engine Redone -Idea- Looking for Support!

[Hectoris]

Bow Engine Redone

I am an archer in real life, and yes, it's not that big of a deal. But Archery, in turn, has a lot of elements going for it rather than simply pulling back a string and firing an arrow. I have no modding experience whatsoever, and I do not know how to mod at all. I want to make it my goal to pitch off an idea to a great modder on this here Nexus and come up with a plan to redo the bow engine for the game when the Creation Kit comes out.

 

Goal:

To heighten the level of immersion for archers in and out of game.

 

Outline:

 

Poundage: the amount of poundage in a bow determines the amount of stamina used, how fast the arrow goes, how much damage is done, and how far the arrow goes. Remember, poundage is how many pounds of force it takes to pull back the string, in turn, this relates to how much stamina is consumed.

- higher poundage bows will coincide with the archery skill level.

- any bow can be used at any level, but stamina can rapidly drain as a consequence.

 

Novice: 20lbs - 30lbs

Apprentice: 32lbs - 48lbs

Adept: 50lbs - 68lbs

Expert: 70lbs - 85lbs

Master: 88lbs - 110lbs + (120lbs, 130lbs, 140lbs, 150lbs)

 

Accuracy: the higher the poundage, the more accurate the bow. However, at any skill level you can use any bow. But, if you have level 25 Archery and you go to use a Master 110lb bow, your stamina will automatically be sucked dry and you won't be able to fire (trust me, I can't even pull a 60lb bow in real life). With the same circumstance you use an Adept bow, your stamina will drain (not as quick) and you chance staggering yourself after firing and perhaps losing some accuracy if your stamina is low enough, but you can still fire.

- given a real circumstance, a low poundage bow will yield a shorter length of shot, less power, and less accuracy.

 

Stamina: like I said before with the previous circumstance, if you're a low level and decide to shoot a Master bow, good luck, because it won't work. Now, if you're a higher level, let's say level 60 Adept Archer, you'll be able to fire all bows lower than you, and most Master bows, but you chance staggering and losing all your stamina in the end. Stamina could possibly work in this way.

Given that you're a level 60 Adept Archer, stamina reduces in the following:

 

Novice: 20lbs - 30lbs (- 0stam)

Apprentice: 32lbs - 48lbs (- 0stam)

Adept: 50lbs - 68lbs (- 0stam, - 8stam/sec)

Expert: 70lbs - 85lbs (- 10stam/sec, - 25stam/sec)

Master: 88lbs - 110lbs + (120lbs, 130lbs, 140lbs, 150lbs)

(- 28stam/sec, - 50stam/sec, - 60stam/sec, - 70stam/sec, - 80stam/sec, - 90stam/sec, - 100stam/sec)

 

Damage: damage is dependant on your skill level, the poundage of the bow, and how much stamina you have in order to fire that bow at full draw. Also, your arrows will affect how much damage is delt to your unsuspecting foes.

- consider any bonuses that can also be added to up your damage level. The numbers plugged in below are only outlines of what can be tweaked and embellished.

 

Novice: 20lbs - 30lbs (20 - 25 dmg)

Apprentice: 32lbs - 48lbs (26 - 34 dmg)

Adept: 50lbs - 68lbs (36 - 40 dmg)

Expert: 70lbs - 85lbs (42 - 48 dmg)

Master: 88lbs - 110lbs + (120lbs, 130lbs, 140lbs, 150lbs) (50 - 70 dmg, 75dmg, 85dmg, 95dmg, 105dmg)

 

Arrows: these guys can be your best friend or your worst enemy in reality. Arrows have certain strengths, and these strengths are called the "spine" of the arrow. In reality, if you use a 20lbs spined arrow on an 80lbs bow, the arrow is going to shatter on release of the string and imbed itself deep into your forearm (don't believe me, go to google and type in "splintered arrow accident"). This has never happened to me, and I remain thankful of that, because I use to specified arrow spine on my bow. Perhaps it could be made so if you use a 50lbs spined arrow on a 100lbs bow, you'll risk breaking the arrow and hurting yourself by some meager 20 points of health.

- arrows can have specific spines (it's all dependant on the arrow)

- there could be 50lbs spined Iron arrows, and 100lbs spined Iron arrows.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Hectoris

[angelwraith]

arrows at the very least need a major overhaul.

 

i hate how a falmer arrow and deadri arrow really arent all that different to a maxed out archer. i mean who cares about the 17 point damage difference when your bow and gear more than make up for it?

 

heres my idea:

 

arrow damage modifiers are no longer a static number added to the total damage as they are now, rather they are a percentage multiplied against total attack damage with a bow.

 

for instance rather than having a falmer arrow add 7 pts damage regardless of bow and skill lets have the arrow be a 70% damage modifier to the final damage output, and the same applies to a daedric arrow, that should do something like 120% damage...

 

this way as an endgame mastered archer (such as my current character) will benefit a lot more from being careful with what arrows are used with which bows.

 

whereas a beginner will also still have to deal with proper arrow choice as percentages would do better to affect both extremes.

[Stewie1897]

This sounds like an awesome idea but it will need to wait for the ck to come out because this would be near impossible to make without it

[Hectoris]

This sounds like an awesome idea but it will need to wait for the ck to come out because this would be near impossible to make without it

 

Thanks guys! I just need this to get recognition so when the CK comes out this mod will be able to take off.

[Hectoris]

arrows at the very least need a major overhaul.

 

i hate how a falmer arrow and deadri arrow really arent all that different to a maxed out archer. i mean who cares about the 17 point damage difference when your bow and gear more than make up for it?

 

heres my idea:

 

arrow damage modifiers are no longer a static number added to the total damage as they are now, rather they are a percentage multiplied against total attack damage with a bow.

 

for instance rather than having a falmer arrow add 7 pts damage regardless of bow and skill lets have the arrow be a 70% damage modifier to the final damage output, and the same applies to a daedric arrow, that should do something like 120% damage...

 

this way as an endgame mastered archer (such as my current character) will benefit a lot more from being careful with what arrows are used with which bows.

 

whereas a beginner will also still have to deal with proper arrow choice as percentages would do better to affect both extremes.

 

Awesome point made, Angel.

 

I have another idea similar in "percentages" with whatever bonuses someone would have on their armour or something that enhances bow damage. Maybe accuracy could also have a percentage rating so the arrow is delivered in a more fixed space depending on the "accuracy percentage", and that can be dependant on which arrows are used with whichever bow.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Hectoris

[VincentIcarus]

One thing I always thought should be overhauled was the bows from a Maker's standpoint. Historically (from lore), elves have always made the best bows. So it's safe to assume that they make the best arrows. I propose an accuracy system based on the design of the bows. For example. Elven Bows + Elven Arrows would be the most accurate, have the most range and have the highest penetrating power (ability to pierce through armor) but have a lower damage rating than some of the higher level bows. All Hunting Bows should have a bonus to damage vs animals or sneak attack. Ebony Bows should have higher damage but at a cost to penetrating power and accuracy. Daedric Bows would have the highest penetrating power but at a penalty of accuracy and damage, etc.

 

Here's my proposal in a nutshell:

Longbows - 10 damage, 0 penetration, 50% accuracy, short range 1-50 yards

Hunting Bows - 15 damage, 5 penetration, 60% accuracy, short range 1-60 yards

Imperial Bows - 20 damage, 10 penetration, 65% accuracy, mid range 1-75 yards

Orcish Bows - 30 damage, 10 penetration, 60% accuracy, mid range 1-75 yards

Elven Bows - 15 damage, 25 penetration, 80% accuracy, long range 1-150 yards

Ebony Bows - 30 damage, 15 penetration, 70% accuracy, long range 1-125 yards

Glass Bows - 25 damage, 20 penetration, 75% accuracy, long range 1-100 yards

Daedric Bows - 30 damage, 20 penetration, 75% accuracy, long range 1-125 yards.

 

Damage is base damage. Damage that is done to an individual wearing clothing. Penetration would be set up by a percent of armor negated based on penetration i.e. 5 point of penetration is equal to 20 point of armor negated. Accuracy would be percent of shots out of 100 that land within the on-screen crosshair. Range is well range kinda self-explanitory.

[Hectoris]

I really like that system. There could be a whole realm of factors also affecting maybe not the damage, penetration or range, but the accuracy percentage. If you're wearing armour with bonuses or you drink a philter or what not, that could increase your accuracy. In turn, a disease could affect as much as accuracy, since the other variables are fixed specifically to the bow itself, and not what the player does. And range is definately self explanitory.

 

I got a comment on the original post by Graywolf116. He makes an excellent point on how to approach the stamina scenario, but that also determines the outcomes of other additions to the system.

 

Graywolf1160

 

Hi, I think you have a great idea here and I'd love a change to the archery system, but I can see you're approaching this with the wrong set of biases, i.e. that of a 'modern' archer.

 

The first problem is how you approach poundages. A 20-30 lb bow is a children's toy. If you're looking for a hunting bow the bare minimum is 45 lbs. And the arrows won't be that light. I can tell you a 45lb longbow loses a lot of hitting power after 20 yards when firing a 30" long wooden arrow. And all these arrows will be wooden shafts so no light weight aluminum/carbon fiber/etc nonsense. There are many hunters that use 60+ lb bows just for turkey hunting.

 

As for warfare, since you're using your bow to fight more than hunt in this game, look at English warbows. Almost all that's known about medieval english archery is known from the wreckage of the Mary Rose, an english ship that sank and perfectly preserved hundreds of english military longbows for hundreds of years. Guess what? The lightest weight bow was 155lbs. And the strongest was 185lbs @ 32" draw. So this is what an armor-piercing bow made for warfare is going to do. They also shot arrows that weighed a quarter of a pound. Try shooting 200 yards with a dinky 45 pounder.. not gonna happen. At least not with enough energy by the time the arrow hits the target.

 

Bows shot from horseback were lighter for ease of shooting from horseback but 120lb bows used by the Turks and Mongols were not uncommon. Maybe a mod would have 'horsebow' bows versus 'infantry/long bows". Your horse bows would be of the recurved mongolian style, would fire a tad lighter and faster, and your longbows would fire a tad heavier and slower.

 

I'd love for this idea to take off and finally see (fingers crossed praying) realistic bows in game. Such as horn-sinew backed, laminated, different types of wood or animal horn, instead of our silly 'elven' 'daedric' 'ebony' bows and what not.

[jojogojogojo]

Along with all that have bodkin head arrows better against armored opponents :ninja: and broad head arrows better against unarmored or lightly armored opponents o_O