DeTomaso Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Your last sentence, Korak, doesn't answer ginny's objection. It just takes the given as given cos somebody has given it to us. Fact is - there is absolutely no logic in the way the player gets his goodies, except one - to get them all he has to be a friend of all factions in the game. And that's a striking structural weakness of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 to get them all he has to be a friend of all factions in the game. And that's a striking structural weakness of the game. Exactly. They more or less want to sell the player all the guilds, regardless if they have any inclination to join. The real structural weakness is force feeding certain guilds to the player as well as removing every requirement for joining. It's ridiculous that I can make archmage without having cast even one spell apart from the one I had to demonstrate at the entrance. That's a real instance of dumbing down, compared to previous games. It caters to collectors, who basically don't care to find a fitting place for their character and gamestyle in that world. It's for the "I want it all" crowd and rumor has it, that by introducing the werewulf outcome they were listening to a very vocal minority wanting to add this to their achievement list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 I can certainly agree with you, DeTomaso, both this latest and your previous post. I am one, like yourself, that can deal with some decision making and choices, and there will be numerous players who can. Now take the Companions Questline for the example, I like to try the different questlines with maybe different character builds, and I would like simply to do the Companions Questline without being a werewolf. What might have been good is that if you chose not to become a werewolf, you had to work harder to be fully accepted by the Companions, do some extra and very dangerous missions to prove that you had the "Right stuff". In this way, you would be accepting a different set of consequences of your decisions, but it would not be making the game by any means easier. After all, not all the Companions themselves are comfortable with the beast within, so this would not seem out of place. On a similar principle it would be possible to also put the Words of Power that are locked behind Companions/DB related destinations in alternate places. I mean, the Shouts I got hampered with were Fire Breath and Animal Allegiance, which are not specifically quest related (except insofar as where they are stuck). Don't put them somewhere easy, that's not what I am saying. Put them in a tough dungeon. It just seems to me to be quite logical, once you have discovered all 20 Shouts, to want to quest to unlock all the elements of each. Especially for my light armored lassie who just likes spells as well as bows and small pointy sticks...and lockpicks. A kleptomaniac as well as a pyromaniac.... @abaris "It's for the "I want it all" crowd and rumor has it, that by introducing the werewulf outcome they were listening to a very vocal minority wanting to add this to their achievement list. " That is truth, I seem to recall a loud "OMG I wanna be a werewolf in Skyrim" clamour even on these forums. That and "I am so going to be a Nord with a beard". We got lycanthropy and beards, which is lovely for those that want it, but not so good if you would rather have proper chargen sliders to make your toons look less like a werewolf to start with. And my girls don't do beards, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iv000 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Indeed, Skyrim is somewhat restrictive when it comes to player choice.Though it doesn't bother me since Elder Scrolls games are oriented towards lore and world exploration.Bethesda probably incorporated some of the factions in the MQ path so the newcomers would have hints on where to go. Not really the best decision, but I can live with it. Also, about the Companions quests. I don't like the fact that they force you to join the Circle.Since the Circle is a separate faction (sub-faction to be exact), they shouldn't force us to join that faction too.But like I said earlier, that's probably Bethesda being newbie friendly. Edited December 31, 2011 by Iv000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8films Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I decided with my current character I would be a "free-roamer," joining no guilds, and only do the MQ and the Stormcloak rebellion quests. I was doing fine until I hit 75+ Illusion and Alteration. Went to go see the Secret-Fire guy as well as a couple other mages and found I couldn't buy the Invisibility or Paralyze spells from them. The game forced me to enter the College and listen to a ton of drivel I wasn't interested in, creating quests in my journal I didn't care about, just so I could buy two spells. :wallbash: You're "free to roam" --- but not free at the same time, in some cases. I would have loved to be able to tell the girl at the Winterhold bridge, "Look, I don't care about your College. I'm an Expert in two schools, see? Just sell me a couple spells and I'll be off." Cant wait for the CS, man. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsolv Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Multiple choices within a complex, non-linear questline would presuppose intelligent thinking on our side.Unfortunately, the vast majority of the customers don't want to play a game that might cause headache.That leads to simple linear games with guided quests, even simpler puzzles and a low level AI that frees the player from any pain or sorrow in his spare time. Decision making remains the privilege of chess fans.So... 1. a4 MIGHT be a good move, because I have the choice to do it, and since all choices are as good as any other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Cant wait for the CS, man. Seriously. Me too. I am inspired to learn about scripting and dungeons and stuff so I can fix things. Will have to get talking to some modders and get some lessons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Being forced to kill Parthunax to continue with the Blades was the one that really annoyed me, he's flown away so why can't I lie to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanusForbeare Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I've been considering this problem in regards to "alternate start" mods, particularly for players who have no interest in playing through the main quest for the umpteenth time. I for one would prefer to play as a simple miner or mercenary than as thane of every town in Skyrim and mythical dragonborn. Problem is, you can't start the civil war without spending a few hours on MQ lollygaggin', by the end of which you're essentially bound on that same linear path. Someone needs to overhaul the way the factions work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8films Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 HEY! No lollygaggin'! :pinch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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