[WIPz] Skyrim Script Extender (SKSE64)

[aristotle99]

I think valid concerns would be:

 

1) If something has happened to one of the team, and the others aren't sure if they want to go on. (It's a crazy world out there)

2) They were ordered to cease and desist by a murder of crows disguised as Lawyers who forbade them on pain of disembowelment by tiny fishhooks from revealing that fact.

3) Bethesda otherwise said 'No'.

4) Their own Gaming companies forbade them from doing further work to enhance a 'competing' product... on pain of... with fish-hooks, etc.

 

These are legit concerns. The attention-deficit abandonment most mention simply doesn't fit the profile.

 

 

I have to be careful not to offend the overlords who forbid mention of behippo's actual name and place of employment, even though this is easily found on the internet.

 

Mindful of that, here is what he PUBLICLY posts on his LinkedIn page:

 

 

Co Founder / Lead Developer

Script Extender Team (RPG Mod Project)

2006 – Present * 11 yrs

Global

 

Extending the scripting capabilities of the various open world RPG's from Bethesda Softworks: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim and Fallout 4. Each successive game from Bethesda has integrated functionality from the previous game's Script Extender that modders found useful. Downloaded by millions of users, the script extenders are considered essential modifications for PC installations of these popular games. SKSE downloads for 2015 alone topped 6 million, 3+ years after the game's introduction.

 

The Script Extenders are created by reverse engineering the game engines, and adding new capabilities at runtime by injecting code into the game without modifying the executable.

 

 

Note that he indicates "2006-Present". There is no suggestion the project has been halted for any of the reasons you cite.

 

I really don't understand why he will not post a 30 second, 1 sentence update.

 

If he is unable to complete the task, fine, just tell us, release work done to date.

 

We can then crowdfund $20K-$30K and hire a computer engineer.

Edited May 19, 2017 by aristotle99

[cdcooley]

In some ways I'm enjoying my Skyrim being relatively light on scripts. I'm still using all my favourite mods - AFT, Convenient Horses, Frostfall, ...

The idea that mods using functions provided by the script extender are somehow more script intensive than others is an old myth. In many cases using script extender functions allows mods to be less script heavy than trying to accomplish the same things with only the game's original features (assuming it's even possible). Those mods you list are pretty script intensive in their original versions and I would be very surprised if the SE versions aren't too. They only way they wouldn't be is if they've cut out major features.

[x0evenstar0x]

 

In some ways I'm enjoying my Skyrim being relatively light on scripts. I'm still using all my favourite mods - AFT, Convenient Horses, Frostfall, ...

 

The idea that mods using functions provided by the script extender are somehow more script intensive than others is an old myth. In many cases using script extender functions allows mods to be less script heavy than trying to accomplish the same things with only the game's original features (assuming it's even possible). Those mods you list are pretty script intensive in their original versions and I would be very surprised if the SE versions aren't too. They only way they wouldn't be is if they've cut out major features.

Hmm I didn't know that. Perhaps it's just the improved performance of SE then. I remember in classic Skyrim my game would slow down considerably if I had too many mods like that. Even though the memory patch and ENBoost made things better, it was still never totally stable. Now I don't crash unless I screw up my load order somehow. :D

[cdcooley]

 

I really don't understand why he will not post a 30 second, 1 sentence update.

 

The best reason I can think of is because he doesn't want to and doesn't need to.

 

He's a skilled programmer and "lead developer" who has no real interest or need to play the role of marketing and sales director. The sorts of updates and announcements some people want are made by developers trying to keep the public interested in a project. As all of the postings here show that really isn't needed, there's still plenty of interest.

 

There's really no reason to come and give an update other than to "be nice" and if the update consists of "still haven't gotten much done, no ETA available" then it wouldn't really make people feel any better. You may think a 30 second update is no big deal but how often is that needed? Every week? Every day? Think how annoying that would be for the team and us especially when there's nothing new to report.

[cdcooley]

 

 

In some ways I'm enjoying my Skyrim being relatively light on scripts. I'm still using all my favourite mods - AFT, Convenient Horses, Frostfall, ...

The idea that mods using functions provided by the script extender are somehow more script intensive than others is an old myth. In many cases using script extender functions allows mods to be less script heavy than trying to accomplish the same things with only the game's original features (assuming it's even possible). Those mods you list are pretty script intensive in their original versions and I would be very surprised if the SE versions aren't too. They only way they wouldn't be is if they've cut out major features.

Hmm I didn't know that. Perhaps it's just the improved performance of SE then. I remember in classic Skyrim my game would slow down considerably if I had too many mods like that. Even though the memory patch and ENBoost made things better, it was still never totally stable. Now I don't crash unless I screw up my load order somehow. :D

 

Yes, SE is significantly optimized compared to the original 32-bit Skyrim. It's still important for script performance to get as close to 60 FPS as you can but that's a lot easier to achieve now.

[schlangster]

Ok, to shed a bit of light on the current situation, here's a brief overview of the people that were involved with SKSE and their roles:

 

Ian builds the core infrastructure and decodes the fundamental game systems. Most of his work happens when the game is released. He is the essential developer behind the script extender, but as you would expect from a person that skilled, he has a job and very little time.

He sticks around to do the game updates and packages releases, but he doesn't have the time to do all the grunt work that comes with adding high-level features.

 

Behippo handles decoding the game classes (that's lots of tedious work) and adding core script functions. He is a busy guy, too, so most of his work happens after release (at least for SKSE it was like that).

 

These guys do the groundwork, but they do not create mods themselves (or even play the game extensively). This makes it harder for them to come up with actual script functions to add.

The people best suited to do that part are the ones who have mods that require those functions. They know which functions and parameters they need and they have the mod set up the actually test those functions themselves, tweak them, etc. And that's how it should be IMO. We cannot expect two people who have been around for 10+ years to still do all the work. It needs people from the current generation of modders to step and contribute.

 

For SKSE, these roles were filled by Brendan and me. Event-based input, Papyrus-ActionScript communication, mod events, the extending Equip functions, serialization, etc. - those were things I needed for SkyUI, they did not exist yet, so I added them. I was a student at the time, so I had lots of free time and I was highly motivated. Same goes for Brendan, he added even more stuff for RaceMenu (I would list it, but I don't know the details).

 

In summary, it was two devs for the foundations, and two for the high-level features (though these roles are generally flexible). A good mix of people with experience but little time and vice versa.

 

SKSE64 development worked pretty much the same so far. Ian and behippo did their thing, the foundations are more or less done. But Brendan currently focuses on F4SE as I understand and I am no longer active now (that was clear from the start). Behippo had planned to take on the task of porting the functionality required for SkyUI as you know, but so far that did not happen. It doesn't surprise me at all, because I know that if I had to do it all over again, except with the drastically reduced amount of time I have now, I would not have been able to either. Porting existing functions is a bit less work than starting from scratch, but he still has to figure out many things for the first time because he did not originally add all of them.

 

So at the moment, there's not much going on. What could happen eventually:

- Brendan moves on to SKSE64.

- Behippo returns.

- I return to port SkyUI (and the required functions in the process).

- Ian gets mad and decides to do everything by himself in one hour :D

- Others decide to get involved and help.

 

But don't count on it, and do not assume any release schedule.

Edited May 20, 2017 by schlangster

[ArizonaSteve]

- Others decide to get involved and help.

 

Firstly, your summary is greatly appreciated. Thanks for that.

 

Has there been any thought to opening up the project in git (or whatever code repository is being used)? I bet there are several people watching this thread who have the necessary tools and reverse engineering experience to help move this along. In addition there are a bunch of excellent programmers here who can help with adding functions.

[PeterMartyr]

 

- Others decide to get involved and help.

 

Firstly, your summary is greatly appreciated. Thanks for that.

 

Has there been any thought to opening up the project in git (or whatever code repository is being used)? I bet there are several people watching this thread who have the necessary tools and reverse engineering experience to help move this along. In addition there are a bunch of excellent programmers here who can help with adding functions.

 

 

+ 1

[Tarshana]

Thanks for the heads up (again). Have a great weekend and just like everything in life "It'll happen when it happens." : )

[expired6978]

Has there been any thought to opening up the project in git (or whatever code repository is being used)? I bet there are several people watching this thread who have the necessary tools and reverse engineering experience to help move this along. In addition there are a bunch of excellent programmers here who can help with adding functions.

We get request emails quite frequently, but we haven't had anyone with the motivation AND the skill set requirements. Programming isn't what we need for SKSE64, we need reverse engineers who understand x86/x64 assembly and C++ structure alignment. I don't believe switching to git would bring anymore people in. It would likely just bring in more need for management (i.e. Peer Reviews).

 

If you're interested in contributing your reverse engineering skills, all you have to do is submit a few alignment fixed classes to show us that you're capable. You don't even need to know x64/x86 for this, you just need to understand structure alignments and C++, this is essentially where I started 6 years ago.

 

Here's some classes I'm confident are broken strictly from alignment shifts:

EffectSetting

TESRace

TESNPC

TESObjectWEAP

TESObjectARMA

ActiveEffect

You don't need to fix any utility classes e.g. tArray, these are already fixed, you should correct the offsets in the comments on the right as is our convention.