Modding scene not dead?

[llamaRCA]

Eh, I think the new dialogue system is better than the old. It's more exciting to not know exactly what's coming out and it stays fresh longer

 

That's not the most horrible part about the new dialogue system, in my opinion. And it could be implemented in any system, really. Lots of players like that and lots of players don't. I'd consider it a controversial detail, not one that affects the fundamentals of what a Beth adventure/RPG has always been.

 

What's most wrong wtih the current FO4 system vs. their older games is that 1) we have four forced replies every single time. It's nearly impossible to write a sensible conversation in that format which is why, if you look at the vanilla dialogue without the obscuring titles on, you see so many of them are filled wtih various ways to say yes.

 

And 2) a single-option voiced protag doesn't really work in a Beth game. If they'd given us like four different voices per gender, than yeah, that would be fine. But as it is they've gutted one of the most important things their games offer which is the ability to create your own stories for your own characters which can be different in each playthrough.

[BenevolentSpirit]

I don't know what beth games you've been playing but if I remember correct, in skyrim you start as the jesus reborn and that's the story you can't do anything about. It didn't stop people from making up their own stories despite all that. I don't understand what is so different about fallout 4 just because the UI looks different and your character's voice is not limited to shouting spells and grunting

[llamaRCA]

I don't know what beth games you've been playing but if I remember correct, in skyrim you start as the jesus reborn and that's the story you can't do anything about. It didn't stop people from making up their own stories despite all that.

 

Beth always gives the player character a narrative, but until FO4 they didn't exert so much control over what you did with it. In Skyrim you can play various races so each character is by default very different from another and the backstory is basically nonexistent. It's been a long standing practice of diehard Beth fans that you make up backstories for your character and Beth's historically casual approach to narrative has always supported that.

 

I don't understand what is so different about fallout 4 just because the UI looks different a

 

 

It's not about the UI. Not at all. That's cosmetic.

 

and your character's voice is not limited to shouting spells and grunting

 

 

I can only assume you are a player that does not actively develop backstories for each character, but relies on the game to supply that narrative.

 

There are many players that have always valued what Beth pretty much uniquely offers (the ability to fill in the backstory and narrative like Skryim did). When they provided a voice for the protag, named the protag and gave that protag specific backstories they took that away.

Edit: One could argue they did the same thing in FO3, but the silent protag there made it pretty easy to ignore their narrative. You always knew what your character was going to say and could choose options that supported your created narrative rather than theirs. Or you could skip the main quest and play the varied and interesting side quests. There isn't the same amount of variety in FO4. Its content is more strongly focused on the main quest.

 

There's a marketplace full of games that tell me what I'm going to play that offer similar enough open world experiences (Bioware, Witcher, Farcry, Bioshock, etc), and they all do it much better (better writing, etc) but very, very few games let you establish your own characters within the framework of the game itself and offer a Bethesda-level gameworld experience.

[BenevolentSpirit]

Yeah maybe you're right, I just thought you lacked imagination

 

But the dialogue in skyrim... is not different in any way to fallout 4 except that you can see it beforehand without a mod... goodbye

Edited January 26, 2017 by BenevolentSpirit

[Fatalmasterpiece]

It's clear the dialogue system was intended to make the game more like Mass Effect who's success Bethesda was hoping to mimic. Unfortunately, they, unlike Bioware, cannot write likable characters to save their life. Bethesda makes potato headed, annoying, forgettable NPCs, always has. I remember the first time I met Caius Cosades in Morrowind and I was like nope nope nope. Bethesda has kept the flame alive with Preston Garvey and Waifu Curie. They are trying to make the game more cinematic, which isn't a bad idea, except it reveals their weaknesses. The panning dialogue camera is cool, but it shows off their awkward character animations. Romancable NPCs are cool, except it shows off the shallow character development. Voiced player characters could be cool, if it didn't pigeon hole the PC into being one dimensional with often dull dialogue. Radiant quests seemed like a good idea but ended up lampooned etc etc.

[Fkemman11]

It's clear the dialogue system was intended to make the game more like Mass Effect who's success Bethesda was hoping to mimic. Unfortunately, they, unlike Bioware, cannot write likable characters to save their life. Bethesda makes potato headed, annoying, forgettable NPCs, always has. I remember the first time I met Caius Cosades in Morrowind and I was like nope nope nope. Bethesda has kept the flame alive with Preston Garvey and Waifu Curie. They are trying to make the game more cinematic, which isn't a bad idea, except it reveals their weaknesses. The panning dialogue camera is cool, but it shows off their awkward character animations. Romancable NPCs are cool, except it shows off the shallow character development. Voiced player characters could be cool, if it didn't pigeon hole the PC into being one dimensional with often dull dialogue. Radiant quests seemed like a good idea but ended up lampooned etc etc.

 

I liked some of the characters in FO3. Moira Brown and Three Dog to name a few. Beth can make likable chars. They just didn't this time around. I think Beth along with some other devs need to quit trying to appeal to the masses and just make their game the way they want to. To much corporate interference or something. I mean it comes down to whether a dev is making a game just to keep fans happy or they're trying to make a great game.

 

By the way, my favorite char from FO3 was President John Henry Eden voiced by Malcom McDowell. It took me awhile to figure out it was him. :dry:

[AlarictheVisgoth]

 

 

@OP

It's so tiring hearing people say how much "FO4 sucks" and that "the modding scene is dead". Well you're still here aren't you? Nothing is stopping you from playing FNV or FO3... or maybe FO4 doesn't suck as much as you think, or maybe you're just entitled. Or you could help out by modding FO4 yourself. There are some really talented people here that need support, not "the scene is dead".Â

 

I will come back if/when there's a Classic Fallout Weapons and PN/FWE overhaul, but not before.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. No one is going to hear your demand and come running to make your PN/FWE overhaul to bring you back. Modders make mods for their own enjoyment, not to satisfy the demand of entitled users.

this pretty much. FO4 "sucks" for me the moment I discovered Beth forgot to give it a soul. This Revelation happened 1-2 days after playing the vanilla game religiously at midnight release. The radical overhaul/departure in game mechanics & from fo4 precessors was the deal breaker. The scripted good guy vet char back story and MQ going forward was painfully linear and uninspiring. Even with my now heavily modded game, I completely lack the desire to finish the MQ

 

ThecTale of Two Wastelands mod is how I've remained addicted to fallout to date

[Moksha8088]

 

In Skyrim you can play various races so each character is by default very different from another and the backstory is basically nonexistent. It's been a long standing practice of diehard Beth fans that you make up backstories for your character and Beth's historically casual approach to narrative has always supported that.

Like having Inigo shoot you in the head due to his skooma addiction and being rescued by the robot Victor in the Goodsprings Cemetery and taken to old Doc Mitchell to be patched up right as rain. Then suddenly finding yourself tied-up on a wagon bound for Helgen, where you are to be beheaded along with Jarl Ulfric of Windhelm. Wait a minute, did I forget the part about following the Emperor of Cyrodiil through a long maze of tunnels before escaping? Doesn't matter, because we Bethesda fans were free to let our minds wander. Just as long as we met Willow by the tent next to the overpass and bumped into Vilja in the Bannered Mare and agreed to help both of them retrieve their stolen items. That set us on the path to victory were we could eventually defeat Alduin at the Hoover Dam.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

 

It's clear the dialogue system was intended to make the game more like Mass Effect who's success Bethesda was hoping to mimic. Unfortunately, they, unlike Bioware, cannot write likable characters to save their life. Bethesda makes potato headed, annoying, forgettable NPCs, always has. I remember the first time I met Caius Cosades in Morrowind and I was like nope nope nope. Bethesda has kept the flame alive with Preston Garvey and Waifu Curie. They are trying to make the game more cinematic, which isn't a bad idea, except it reveals their weaknesses. The panning dialogue camera is cool, but it shows off their awkward character animations. Romancable NPCs are cool, except it shows off the shallow character development. Voiced player characters could be cool, if it didn't pigeon hole the PC into being one dimensional with often dull dialogue. Radiant quests seemed like a good idea but ended up lampooned etc etc.

 

I liked some of the characters in FO3. Moira Brown and Three Dog to name a few. Beth can make likable chars. They just didn't this time around. I think Beth along with some other devs need to quit trying to appeal to the masses and just make their game the way they want to. To much corporate interference or something. I mean it comes down to whether a dev is making a game just to keep fans happy or they're trying to make a great game.

 

By the way, my favorite char from FO3 was President John Henry Eden voiced by Malcom McDowell. It took me awhile to figure out it was him. :dry:

 

That's true, those were good characters, but none of them were your companions or took much presence in the story. I wish they had been. My favorite Bethesda character was Lucien Lachance and it was such a let down that they only had him in Skyrim as a (voiceless) ghost.

You're right, they need to take some chances and make the game unique, even quirky the way New Vegas was to give it some life.

 

Malcom McDowell is awesome and has one of the best voices in show biz.

[ShinKungFuMan]

To be honest 4 still has some solid characters, but they're undermined by a lot of stupid stuff. So many characters have to be a sourpuss (Marcie, Jezebel) for absolutely no reason, to the point you actually want to kill them. And it's actually kind of messed up, because a few tweaks to the Sanctuary quest and you can make Marcie *reasonably nicer* for fixing up Sanctuary. Bethesda's answer? "Oh hey you can kill her."

 

That's not a good character design. That's silly.

 

Strong honestly got it the worst: he complains all the time because they didn't set him up properly not to: even if you have max affinity, he won't say the lines showing he likes the player, just the same ones. He has actually funny interactions with every major bartender...and they cut all of them. He even has a few quips for some of the Institute quests *inside the Institute* and makes a comment that he remembers being there. All around you could have had this decent character and instead you get "Fist was weak leader. Strong glad to be rid of him." "Human look like robot."

 

The game does have some actually decent characters though too even with that. Longfellow and the Mariner are two of my favorites because they're well rounded. They don't try to get into your pants once you get friendly enough with them, and they have full arcs of their own. The game needed more of that, and a lot less of Preston "Here I'll tell you where you go to deal with problems. By the way the moment you side with those raiders I'll hate your guts no matter how much we got along before" Garvey.