Why are mod authors allowed to ban people from seeing their mod?

[Deleted23328924User]

First, just one question:

 

Why do you have to insult something you don't like? Isn't it enough if one just doesn't use this mod, ignore it or if one already feel the urge to express your opinion, then why no constructive criticism? I don't know what were your "rude" answers but what does that do for people to be mean? And it's my opinion that also you don't have to put up with everything but it doesn't surprise me, when other modders block this users as a reaction to it.

 

 

 

But mod authors shouldn't be able to block people from even viewing their mods for something as petty as disliking someone making a vaguely, (and for God's sake let's be honest, vaguely) disagreeable comment on another mod. If this is even a thing that should be done, it should be done by moderators, not by random content producers.

 

Well, the authors are the owners of their mods and they have the right to decide what happens with it, who can access it and who not. Do you really want that in the future anyone can say anything what they want, things that even make the devil feel uncomfortable? Within a short time no one would share its mods and deservedly so. This is regulated on Nexus like that. So, either one can accept it and see that one observes a certain way of behaving or one doesn't use this side any longer. But I understand your point of view, that it's wrong to block or ban people because they submit errors, bugs or mistakes.

[papagator]

While I'm not going to get involved in the main topic as it has been discussed to death already, I will comment on this derailment:

 

...why is that wrong? I will categorically go on record, as I have before in the past, and say I think a mod author is "worth more" than a mod user to this community. That's not to say that a mod user is worth nothing, just that a mod author who actively contributes to the main point of the site is definitely "worth more" than a mod user who simply comes to the site, downloads some mods for their game, and then leaves again.

 

In fact, I'm happy to break it down into a worth chart, from less to more for you:

1. Users who come to the site, download a mod, and then leave
2. Users who download mods and leave constructive feedback on the mods they use
3. The above, but they also come back and endorse the mods they like and/or donate to their favourite mod authors
4. The above, but they also actively participate in our forums/Discord discussing topics and helping others with issues
5. Mod authors

I could break it down further into subsets, but I think you get the gist.

 

I'd say 4 and 5 are pretty close on my "worth chart", if not on par. Some people simply don't have the time in life or the "brain" for the type of modding they would like to do (e.g. the mathematical brain for programming, or the artistic flair for modelling), so they decide to help out in other ways by spending countless hours helping people troubleshoot these issues, updating wikis, or, you know, running sites like the Nexus. They're most definitely "worth more" to this community than someone who pops on, downloads something, and leaves again without ever coming back to even do anything as much as endorse a mod.

 

I don't believe what I mentioned to be derailment as this is a reason why people discuss this 'discussed to death issue'. If the staff looked at any cases of people crying out how unfair their situations were and intervened chances are this discussion wouldn't be mentioned so much.

 

I also believe it's ethically wrong because it doesn't treat everyone on an even level. Are popular mod authors able to break the rules multiple times and finally be banned, whereas first offence users are more likely to be perma'd? Theres a certain mod author I remember (who i won't name for dignity reasons) who has been banned after being very toxic to the community for a long time.

 

1. These users would be exempt this situation because, well, they don't comment, and therefore wouldn't be liable to being blocked yes?

2. Users who provide constructive feedback are crucial to modding databases. What's a game without game testers? These people are usually key to fixing/finding issues, giving great suggestions and opinions, and most of all their thanks and positive feelings towards the mod authors. Negative feedback shouldn't be construed as abusive, not everyone will suckup to a mod author, and maybe if it seems that a negative criticism is toxic, its probably because they care and are serious about the mods success.

 

Categories 2, 3, and 4 are almost interchangeable with varied participation. This also means they're just as susceptible to being blocked for unfair reasons by mod authors. The point I'm making is that unfair blocking should be moderated. If not, it allows mod authors to grow their egos and become the very same people they despise.

 

5. Mod authors; if a mod author unfairly blocked me, a mod creator, and proceeds to explain how hes worth more than I am because he published more mods than I have, and that they're 'more popular' (which is an opinion), where do I stand? This problem isn't users only, it affects everyone.

 

I acknowledge that there's many authors that do in fact take criticisms and are hard working, but I'm hoping the elephant in the room would be addressed, the toxic mod authors. Even they should be accountable. These are my thoughts on the subject.

Edited March 6, 2017 by papagator

[Deleted82156User]

Why should you tolerate the rude, unappreciative masses who don't understand the skill and care that went into retexturing the characters fingernails?

 

 

You clearly have very little idea of what actually goes into a lot of mods, if that is your perception of mods. I have three YEARS put into one mod. Many others have put similar effort into their work.

 

 

You don't,

 

We do.

 

This community already encourages modders to live in a bubble away from criticism far too often, this is just a leap into insanity.

 

Clearly you have a personal axe to grind here against modders, though you keep on and on about being one yourself....

 

What is utterly obvious is that you have zero idea what it is to be a modder that is constantly facing abuse by many users, over and over. We have lost serious talent because of the abuse that modders put up with, regardless of whether you believe it or not, it IS a fact.

 

Shouting that modders should just 'suck it up' and take abuse is completely unreasonable and illogical. Why should they?...you have yet to answer that....

 

You keep saying 'they' as if there is an organized army marching onto your mod pages to hurl abuse at you

 

 

That has literally happened to modders, myself included.

 

Fact is that you have provided no logical reason why modders should not be able to ban people from their mods, on the contrary you have demonstrated the very disrespectful and ungrateful attitude that is the very reason why we all do have the right to ban. At this point I can see just why that modder banned you.....

Edited March 6, 2017 by Guest

[Arthmoor]

Nexus is the only mod front that allows this. The others, Steam Workshop, ModDB, hell, Loverslab, all have some protection for modders and their work but they don't have that one, and amazingly, they have yet to collapse in on themselves.

Steam Workshop, and Bethesda.net before the back end changes, both allow for this. There's nothing at all unusual about an author having proper control over commenting and distribution of their work.

 

Lovers Lab is using a bog standard IPB implementation and that software doesn't have those types of controls built in at all. ModDB is built on an archaic system that would likely make changing it to offer proper author controls impractical, which IMO is why you don't see a lot of TES/FO modders making use of the place.

[papagator]

 

That has literally happened to modders, myself included.

 

Fact is that you have provided no logical reason why modders should not be able to ban people from their mods, on the contrary you have demonstrated the very disrespectful and ungrateful attitude that is the very reason why we all do have the right to ban. At this point I can see just why that modder banned you.....

 

 

I agree that modders should be able to ban people from their mods, but when authors start getting carried away with it is when it becomes a problem. It's a knee jerk reaction. Mod authors that ban for ridiculous reasons should be investigated or intervened, is that not logical enough? Also, the minute we start classifying whose mods are worth more than the other in terms of how popular it is, whos/what work was put into it, the time it took, is when a dark shadow of elitism is casted upon the modding community. We could agree that modding for beth-games is frustrating, and I'm also likely to respect someone who created a simplistic helmet as much as I'd respect someone making a collection of wearable items because of the effort they put in and the enthusiasm they had creating it.

 

IMO putting aside all the OPs posts besides the initial, his comment on that mod is light compared to the top notch trolling i've read on other mods.

Edited March 6, 2017 by papagator

[Mightandmarine]

 

 

You clearly have very little idea of what actually goes into a lot of mods, if that is your perception of mods. I have three YEARS put into one mod. Many others have put similar effort into their work.

 

Clearly you have a personal axe to grind here against modders, though you keep on and on about being one yourself....

 

What is utterly obvious is that you have zero idea what it is to be a modder that is constantly facing abuse by many users, over and over. We have lost serious talent because of the abuse that modders put up with, regardless of whether you believe it or not, it IS a fact.

That has literally happened to modders, myself included.

 

Fact is that you have provided no logical reason why modders should not be able to ban people from their mods, on the contrary you have demonstrated the very disrespectful and ungrateful attitude that is the very reason why we all do have the right to ban. At this point I can see just why that modder banned you.....

 

 

Good God Shezrie I'm not sure how often I need to tell you that I am a mod creator. The only difference is I do not have a mod on the Nexus, I have been modding since Half Life 2 was released, I spent time in a tent in a field in the desert while in the Marines in my free time drafting a mod I made I love modding so much. Your experience as a modder, having spent years pouring time into a mod, is not a unique one in this conversation.

 

The fact that you have decided I have a personal axe to grind against modders is telling. You're not creating any dialogue, and it's endemic of a community where mod authors are supported in removing even small amounts of criticism. I have nothing against modders, I didn't put money into this site because I have a bone to pick with you and other Nexus modders. I don't have mods in the works for Skyrim and Fallout 4 because I absolutely want to tear the site down and insult you. I talk about myself because, somehow, even while I keep reiterating I'm a modder and don't having anything against modders having control of their mods, I knew someone would accuse me of some sort of anti-modder bias just for disliking a feature on this site.

 

I have plenty of idea running a mod, plenty of idea on taking abuse for the mod, while I'm not a frequent poster I know well about the Nexus and the modders it has lost. What is also a fact is that at the end of the day you have the full ability to go as far as lock comments, because on a site where mod creators tend to delete even the smallest modicum of criticism, and is infamous for it, there's no real reason to even have them.

 

And you have a right to lock those comments, and ban people from commenting, or messaging you, have a ball. But there is zero reason to block someone from even seeing your mod besides pettiness, especially when, like in my case, the other person did not even insult anyone. You say I have a very 'disrespectful and ungrateful attitude', when I have been desperately trying to be civil with you because I saw this argument coming. I have never had an interaction with the modder who banned me, I have never used any of his mods, and I came into this thread trying to explain that not only am I a fellow modder, and not only do I believe that modders do have rights, but that I would have liked to apologize to the mod creator if I had done something wrong. My complaint was that I was never even given this chance, and that even if I have insulted him, there was no reason to fully remove me from ever seeing his mods. A simple block of communications, which he did to my more than polite PM, would have sufficed if I had truly offended him.

 

You're getting angry at me for something that I'm not even disagreeing with you on. People are shitty. Where we disagree is that I don't see a reason to prohibit anyone from seeing your mod, because that's not solving an issue that's just pettiness and holding grudges.

[Arthmoor]

I have never had an interaction with the modder who banned me

As Dante already pointed out, you did. The author controls to block someone from commenting and/or downloading are not available unless you leave a comment in their thread. We do not have the power to preemptively block anyone from anything. That is a power only the staff has.

[Deleted82156User]

 

 

That has literally happened to modders, myself included.

 

Fact is that you have provided no logical reason why modders should not be able to ban people from their mods, on the contrary you have demonstrated the very disrespectful and ungrateful attitude that is the very reason why we all do have the right to ban. At this point I can see just why that modder banned you.....

 

 

I agree that modders should be able to ban people from their mods, but when authors start getting carried away with it is when it becomes a problem. It's a knee jerk reaction. Mod authors that ban for ridiculous reasons should be investigated or intervened, is that not logical enough? Also, the minute we start classifying whose mods are worth more than the other in terms of how popular it is, who/what work was put into it, the time it took, is when a dark shadow of elitism is casted upon the modding community. We could agree that modding for beth-games is frustrating, and I'm also likely to respect someone who created a simplistic helmet as much as I'd respect someone making a collection of wearable items because of the effort they put in and the enthusiasm they had creating it.

 

IMO putting aside all the OPs posts besides the initial, his comment on that mod is light compared to the top notch trolling i've read on other mods.

 

It really boils down to what has been said over and over...

 

No one has a 'right' to someone elses work. Nexus adheres to that and I certainly respect them for it.

 

People come and complain about being banned from mods, but like people complaining about being banned from sites, more often then not they were banned for good reason... Yes there may have been unfair bans, but the vast majority of modders use the feature responsibly, so why should we all loose it because of a few.

[papagator]

 

It really boils down to what has been said over and over...

 

 

No one has a 'right' to someone elses work. Nexus adheres to that and I certainly respect them for it.

 

People come and complain about being banned from mods, but like people complaining about being banned from sites, more often then not they were banned for good reason... Yes there may have been unfair bans, but the vast majority of modders use the feature responsibly, so why should we all loose it because of a few.

 

 

I don't remember ever mentioning that we should lose a feature like blocking/banning people. I only believe that the concept of people blocking others for unfair reasons could be mitigated with some intervention, that's all. This doesn't mean everyone shouldn't have the right to block others.

[DoctaSax]

Modders deserve preferential treatment on a modding site, that's a given, but I do think the system is open to abuse by a handful of modders with a short fuse, and such cases tend to widen the divide between modders and non-modders. As if that needs any help nowadays. In the end, there's no telling what any given person could take offense at on any given day, so that means a lack of consistency in terms of what is and isn't acceptable behavior between one mod's thread and the next when it comes to lightweight stuff.

If on the other hand Nexus wants to stick with it, I think it should be available to all modders, not just the ones with x number of downloads. You're either a modder or you're not.

@Dark0ne: I'd switch around 2 and 3 in your list. Some level of actual interaction is imo preferable to a click on a button.

@Arthmoor: just because LL's bog standard software doesn't allow it doesn't mean we'd switch to it as soon as it did. I'd advise against it because it seems like just another source of drama. I don't remember anybody ever even requesting such a feature with us, so it's probably not all that necessary.