Ammunition reloading, you are all doing it wrong!

[montky]

@fatalmasterpiece

thanks for this whole discussion, and for some excellent mods you've collaborated on.

this has to be one of the more interesting hypotheticals, and it's great to see everyone's thoughts on it.

 

as an FORPG and GURPS player from way back,

the more realism the better hehe.

 

 

 

You are going to enjoy things such as;

Any Mod Any Fail,

Weapon Maintenance Overhaul

tactical overhaul (sleep and health or drug status effects accuracy)

and of course,

various weapons parts packs and the such like.

Pipe Weapons overhaul, WARS, improvised shivs and shiv-bayonets,

MIB, joergsprave, forgotten weapons...

 

basically, with these,

we can achieve Arma 3,5 and CounterStrike or Postal levels of 'verisimilitude'.

I say, if folks want to play these kinds of games,

why not incorporate those and FORPG stuff together?

Arma 3,5 already has an X-Men and Fallout-themed mod.

it has really awesome vehicle and flight physics...

 

I digress;

ammunitionState + weaponCondition + environmentalCondition + psychologialState + perks or SPECIAL = accuracy manifold.

its a floatingpoint value, and something we can nodally override.

'spooky places' or 'hallowed ground' ie, certain UnderBoston firefights, can have different nodal-modifiers...

shooting is going to be a much riskier proposition with collateral damage and greater chance of malfunctions

or, with pipe weapons and zip guns etc, potential lethality to the operator...

 

next-next gen stuff, stuff like Star Citizen, Universe Sim etc,

it'll let you have 1:1 universe level stuff.

destructible terrain, 1:1 craftable stuff.

it'll allow a whole lot more complex strategies and all.

 

-----

as much as I like my Goodman's Grue-Bleen plasma minigun blaster,

and my trusty MIRV-Fatman

I don't think it's always reliable,

so i'll always carry a pipe shotgun and close-combat as well.

the closecombat weapon would be;

Shem Drowne's-Krenvhm's Tooth-Pickman'sBlade-Electrified-Stunning-Better-Criticals-Ripper.

300+ damage electrical, rad, sharp and bleed, plus 1:48 attacks stuns for 3 seconds. as its a ripper, it makes a lot of attacks per minute,

so, basically a 33% chance per minute to stun for at least 5 seconds...

 

unless, it's survival mode,

in which case, it's a +1 shiv. (vault-tec spork x 300)

 

If I can't afford premium ammunition in survival,

then I'll probably take a pipe harmonica rifle

and a pipe sawn-off shotty.

If I need more than 20 rounds, I am doing stealth or something wrong.

 

 

 

 

indeed, making survival more realistic or punishing,

that is always more 'fun',

and I think there'll be a lot of projects emerging which achieve that.

[robhartman9]

that would make the chinese assault rifle much better than the american one. SKS loads the magazine with stripper clips so you only need one magazine that is reloaded as quickly as changing magazines. Steyr 1911 better than Colt 1911 for the same reason. How many times do you reload during a typical game firefight? Probably not more than twice. I just assume the game doesnt want to waste your time reloading clips between firefights.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Well one thing that bothered me about that is only affected your char....and not enemies. It would be more fun if the rules applied to everyone's weapons. Like say a StuperMutie has the drop on you. But because the oaf has a gun in poor condition- it just goes click. do you think guns should be repaired anywhere or just at a workbench? Finding broken guns that could only be salvaged for parts is kinda cool. :happy:

 

I think something like a threshold of 25%, anything below that much be repaired at a bench because it's actually broken. Otherwise grafting materials in the field should do.

 

Simple--just carry the amount of ammunition you think would be appropriate and not one thousand one hundred and fifty seven .308 cartridges.

Well this goes back into the whole, "if you want to RP it you can, Bethesda doesn't need a mechanic" which was used against wanting survival mechanics like hunger and fatigue. After all, if you want your character to eat and sleep, you can choose to do so. It's more fun though when the game uses a mechanic for this because you must perform within more challenging constraints.

 

@fatalmasterpiece

thanks for this whole discussion, and for some excellent mods you've collaborated on.

this has to be one of the more interesting hypotheticals, and it's great to see everyone's thoughts on it.

:smile:

 

[bmt12]

Fallout is a game where people's heads and limbs explode when you shoot them with small caliber weapons, I don't think that they were really going for any degree of realism.

 

More serious shooters do tend, or at least used to I haven't had the time or patience to play many online games in years to acknowledge this by giving you a finite number of magazines where if you were to eject a partially used one and were later to cycle back to that magazine it would still only have how ever many rounds left.

[Ethreon]

Fallout is a game where people's heads and limbs explode when you shoot them with small caliber weapons, I don't think that they were really going for any degree of realism.

 

More serious shooters do tend, or at least used to I haven't had the time or patience to play many online games in years to acknowledge this by giving you a finite number of magazines where if you were to eject a partially used one and were later to cycle back to that magazine it would still only have how ever many rounds left.

That's unnecessary tracking and the possibility of adding bugs is high.

[Greslin]

That's a good point, I still want to try it out!

 

My counter point is that at high levels, semi-automatic and automatic weapons seem to far overpower revolvers and breach loaded weapons. This could possibly be a balancing mechanism. Also, this could help nerf automatic weapons rather than the heavy damage penalty they already have.

 

I think it could probably be done in a reasonably balanced way that makes a lot of Fallout players unhappy. :)

 

Personally, I'd love to give it a shot, perhaps even as the coder in question. From my own experiences tinkering with basic mechanics like this, I can tell you that there would be unexpected emergent effects that would require a bit of rebalancing in other areas of the game. If the author was willing to tackle that rebalancing, it could well be a great mod.

 

I'd love to see it happen.

[bmt12]

 

Fallout is a game where people's heads and limbs explode when you shoot them with small caliber weapons, I don't think that they were really going for any degree of realism.

 

More serious shooters do tend, or at least used to I haven't had the time or patience to play many online games in years to acknowledge this by giving you a finite number of magazines where if you were to eject a partially used one and were later to cycle back to that magazine it would still only have how ever many rounds left.

That's unnecessary tracking and the possibility of adding bugs is high.

Only if you're Bethesdea.

 

As for being unnecessary why even have ammunition counts in the first place? If that is your line of thinking.

[Ethreon]

 

 

Fallout is a game where people's heads and limbs explode when you shoot them with small caliber weapons, I don't think that they were really going for any degree of realism.

 

More serious shooters do tend, or at least used to I haven't had the time or patience to play many online games in years to acknowledge this by giving you a finite number of magazines where if you were to eject a partially used one and were later to cycle back to that magazine it would still only have how ever many rounds left.

That's unnecessary tracking and the possibility of adding bugs is high.

Only if you're Bethesdea.

 

As for being unnecessary why even have ammunition counts in the first place? If that is your line of thinking.

 

To know how much ammo you got left for reloading?

[TKayFire]

Fallout is a game where people's heads and limbs explode when you shoot them with small caliber weapons, I don't think that they were really going for any degree of realism.

 

More serious shooters do tend, or at least used to I haven't had the time or patience to play many online games in years to acknowledge this by giving you a finite number of magazines where if you were to eject a partially used one and were later to cycle back to that magazine it would still only have how ever many rounds left.

This.

 

You can also point blank shoot an unhelmeted raider in the head with a .50 caliber rifle and he'll just swag walk away. On the other hand if people don't know they're being shot at then bullets hurt more. The shooting mechanism in this game makes no sense at all, but that's only minor compared to me being able to sneak around in power armor or have my dog carry 10 miniguns.

[PoorlyAged]

First, some vocabulary so that we all use the same word to mean the same thing. Here is an article written by Kyle Wintersteen and published in the November 21st, 2016 issue of Guns and Ammo Magazine. Truth in advertising dictates that I tell you that this article is very PRO-Gun and it waxes political at a couple of points. For our purposes, it addresses the differences between a magazine and a clip, and the difference between a cartridge and a bullet.

 

From personal experience, I can tell you that magazines are loaded in a base camp before even venturing beyond the wire. I personally carried a dozen 20 round magazines for my M16. I also carried about four dozen clips of ten rounds each. Here is a video of how the stripper clips worked on an M16. Here is a video showing the use of stripper clips on the M14, which had the guide build into the receiver. (To answer the question before it is asked, I carried my weapon, my KA-BAR, water, ammo, extra socks and toilet paper into the bush. The later two were in plastic bags. Everything else was excess weight.)

 

Unlike the movies, magazines are NEVER dropped and left in the field. They are reusable and they are precious. After a firefight, they are collected, cleaned, oiled, reloaded and made ready for the next use. It is a ritual. Reload your magazines, check on the wounded, count the bodies and collect their weapons and ammo, inventory and redistribute your remaining ammo.

 

The real life mechanics of reloading a weapon are cumbersome and awkward and unless practiced regularly, time consuming. Press the magazine release button, grab a full mag, stick it into the weapon, tap the bottom to ensure it is seated correctly, release the bolt and get ready to fire again. Simple, right? Try it in the dark while it is raining and with some <expletive deleted> shooting at you. Besides dropping their mags, I have seen people attempt to insert mags upside down, backwards and both. I have seen magazines fall out of the magazine well when the bolt was released.

 

So the loading and reloading of weapons in video games is horribly over simplified. So what. Most game developers and game players don't know the difference. Nor do they care.

 

For those of us that do know the difference, we keep it to ourselves and enjoy the game.

 

Edit: Corrected some spelling errors

Edited April 1, 2017 by PoorlyAged