Trump launches military strike against Syria

[gandalftw]

 

 

 

There isn't going to be a diplomatic solution. We are WAY beyond that stage. I expect that fighting will continue there, for the foreseeable future.... There simply aren't going to be any winners.

 

No, not now but pumpkinhead and Putin had a little bromance going on who knows where that might have led,diplomatically?Leave it to pumpkinhead to screw that up.No no winners but it would be nice to have a few more survivors.

 

So you admit that no one knew what could happen, and in the next breath, 'trump screwed it up'........ Hhhhmmmm...... Where did you ever get the idea that US goals, and Russian goals, had anything at all in common? "We", apparently, want assad ousted. Russia does not. They feel strongly enough in that regard, that they are taking direct military action in support of him. The missile attack is the first time that we have ever actually directly gone against Russias wishes. We have been playing on the sidelines, supplying weapons to our 'allies'.... (and I use that term VERY loosely.....) and bombing various ISIS locations. Quite frankly, I don't see any common ground between us and Russia, and certainly nothing to imply that we could reach any sort of agreement, that would satisfy both sides. Trump lost nothing by firing missiles. He DID, however, send a clear message to the world in general, that the days of us sitting back, and doing nothing, when folks cross our 'red lines', are over. Let us hope that Lil Kim takes note of that.

 

 

What i said was, Trump screwed up the possibility of using his influence with Putin by his self-serving knee jerk attack.

 

The overnight U.S. missile strike was careful to avoid Russian personnel or equipment in Syria. “Our target in this attack was not Russia,” Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said. The United States gave Russia advance notice to be safe.

That did not prevent Putin from rebuking a fellow leader who no longer seems to be a pal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/04/07/trumps-bromance-putin-history/100165530/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/12/30/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-bromance/95994176/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-bromance/index.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/trump-putin-so-true/511679/

 

 

 

The rest of your post is you assuming you know what i think then you lecture me on what you think i think. I won't answer any of that nonsense.

 

 

Interesting maybe Tillerson, the friendly oil man, will strike a deal.

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by gandalftw

[Aurielius]

<snip>

The US actually warned Russia before the airport attack so that Russia could move their troops.That's fascinating,if true that could open up a whole new area of investigation.

Are you are truly unaware of how a 'De-confliction Line' is supposed to function? The same line that Kerry instituted?

It's purpose is to give another non hostile force in the area a heads up that a impending strike will be in proximity to their personnel. It prevents escalation due to causalities. SOP is to make the call with enough time for them to bunker down but not enough time to effectively interfere with the mission. It is my understanding that the call was made from Centcom (as per the ROE) with 15 minutes to spare. Lack of knowledge on how a war zone functions seems to be your forte.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

There isn't going to be a diplomatic solution. We are WAY beyond that stage. I expect that fighting will continue there, for the foreseeable future.... There simply aren't going to be any winners.

 

No, not now but pumpkinhead and Putin had a little bromance going on who knows where that might have led,diplomatically?Leave it to pumpkinhead to screw that up.No no winners but it would be nice to have a few more survivors.

 

So you admit that no one knew what could happen, and in the next breath, 'trump screwed it up'........ Hhhhmmmm...... Where did you ever get the idea that US goals, and Russian goals, had anything at all in common? "We", apparently, want assad ousted. Russia does not. They feel strongly enough in that regard, that they are taking direct military action in support of him. The missile attack is the first time that we have ever actually directly gone against Russias wishes. We have been playing on the sidelines, supplying weapons to our 'allies'.... (and I use that term VERY loosely.....) and bombing various ISIS locations. Quite frankly, I don't see any common ground between us and Russia, and certainly nothing to imply that we could reach any sort of agreement, that would satisfy both sides. Trump lost nothing by firing missiles. He DID, however, send a clear message to the world in general, that the days of us sitting back, and doing nothing, when folks cross our 'red lines', are over. Let us hope that Lil Kim takes note of that.

 

 

What i said was, Trump screwed up the possibility of using his influence with Putin by his self-serving knee jerk attack.

 

The overnight U.S. missile strike was careful to avoid Russian personnel or equipment in Syria. “Our target in this attack was not Russia,” Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said. The United States gave Russia advance notice to be safe.

That did not prevent Putin from rebuking a fellow leader who no longer seems to be a pal.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/04/07/trumps-bromance-putin-history/100165530/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/12/30/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-bromance/95994176/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-bromance/index.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/12/trump-putin-so-true/511679/

 

 

 

The rest of your post is you assuming you know what i think then you lecture me and i won't answer any of that nonsense.

 

 

Interesting maybe Tillerson, the friendly oil man, will strike a deal.

 

 

He did? Really? And you know this how? What leads you to believe that Trump has an influence with Putin in the first place?

 

And of course Russia is going to paint this incident in the worst possible light. That is to be expected.

[gandalftw]

 

He did? Really? And you know this how? What leads you to believe that Trump has an influence with Putin in the first place?

 

 

And of course Russia is going to paint this incident in the worst possible light. That is to be expected.

 

The least you could do is make your quotes a little less cumbersome.It's the button with "DEL" on it?

 

HAD an influence...sigh... I just posted several links that show the early developing relationship of Trump and Putin.Do you dislike reading?

Edited April 12, 2017 by gandalftw

[gandalftw]

 

<snip>

The US actually warned Russia before the airport attack so that Russia could move their troops.That's fascinating,if true that could open up a whole new area of investigation.

Are you are truly unaware of how a 'De-confliction Line' is supposed to function? The same line that Kerry instituted?

It's purpose is to give another non hostile force in the area a heads up that a impending strike will be in proximity to their personnel. It prevents escalation due to causalities. SOP is to make the call with enough time for them to bunker down but not enough time to effectively interfere with the mission. It is my understanding that the call was made from Centcom (as per the ROE) with 15 minutes to spare. Lack of knowledge on how a war zone functions seems to be your forte.

 

Thank you my narcissistic teacher,now go away. :p

Edited April 12, 2017 by gandalftw

[HeyYou]

 

 

He did? Really? And you know this how? What leads you to believe that Trump has an influence with Putin in the first place?

 

 

And of course Russia is going to paint this incident in the worst possible light. That is to be expected.

 

The least you could do is make your quotes a little less cumbersome.It's the button with "DEL" on it?

 

HAD an influence...sigh... I just posted several links that show the early developing relationship of Trump and Putin.Do you dislike reading?

 

Depends on what I am reading. When you provide biased sources, that support your side of the argument, do you expect me to just take it all at face value? I am a bit more cynical than that.

 

All that aside, any influence that he may have had, he likely still does. Which, in my opinion, was very little, if any. Putin will do as he pleases, regardless of the actions or wishes of any american. Doesn't matter who he is.

 

 

 

<snip>

The US actually warned Russia before the airport attack so that Russia could move their troops.That's fascinating,if true that could open up a whole new area of investigation.

Are you are truly unaware of how a 'De-confliction Line' is supposed to function? The same line that Kerry instituted?

It's purpose is to give another non hostile force in the area a heads up that a impending strike will be in proximity to their personnel. It prevents escalation due to causalities. SOP is to make the call with enough time for them to bunker down but not enough time to effectively interfere with the mission. It is my understanding that the call was made from Centcom (as per the ROE) with 15 minutes to spare. Lack of knowledge on how a war zone functions seems to be your forte.

 

Thank you my narcissistic teacher,now go away. :tongue:

 

And that statement right there negates any validity to any of your arguments. He speaks that which he knows, far to well, and you discount him as nothing. Terribly sorry, but, I put much more stock in what he has to say, the what comes from you. So, on that note, I am just going to leave it as it is. I don't have any real desire to continue with this.

 

have a nice life.

[gandalftw]

 

Depends on what I am reading. When you provide biased sources, that support your side of the argument, do you expect me to just take it all at face value? I am a bit more cynical than that.

 

All that aside, any influence that he may have had, he likely still does. Which, in my opinion, was very little, if any. Putin will do as he pleases, regardless of the actions or wishes of any american. Doesn't matter who he is.

 

And that statement right there negates any validity to any of your arguments. He speaks that which he knows, far to well, and you discount him as nothing. Terribly sorry, but, I put much more stock in what he has to say, the what comes from you. So, on that note, I am just going to leave it as it is. I don't have any real desire to continue with this.

 

 

have a nice life.

 

"biased sources"That's hilarious.What am i supposed to do supply sources that support you instead?Ok let me look up breitbart.com....

I was indeed unaware of De-confliction, i thought his post was informative.I was teasing him as i have been all along,he's been teasing me as well, that you have a problem with that means less than nothing to me. You Trump supporters are so sensitive.

Edited April 12, 2017 by gandalftw

[gandalftw]

@Aurielius The Narcissist

I purposely created a post in this thread that slightly mirrored one of your own that i negatively critiqued ,you didn't find it or you would have
commented.So now you'll have to find it to tell me you saw it all along but decided to ignore it..

You're right i have absolutely no knowledge of war zone functions for i have no interest in war other than in finding ways to end it.In my youth i
participated in protesting the Vietnam war.I was a member in a civil rights organization that was fairly well known in my day.Today i donate to the Trump
resistance movements as well as American Atheists and American Humanists.

All i care about is to see Trump and his motley crew removed from office for they are a threat to everything i hold dear.All governments are corrupt i
have no doubt about that but the US has steadily progressed due to the efforts of those that have embraced the morality of humanistic ideology.

Trump and his cohorts are only concerned with their own self interests at the expense of the poor and middle class.Their endeavors will slowly but surely
put an end to our progressive society.If they are allowed full rein they will turn America into just another warmongering immoral country.

With that Gandalf is fleeing so he doesn't upset anyone else,come see me in the lounge i'm the big hairy guy passed out on the pool table.. :wink:

Edited April 12, 2017 by gandalftw

[RGMage2]

@ gandalftw

 

You Trump supporters are so sensitive.

 

I'm not taking sides here but aren't Trump supporters supposed to be insensitive?

 

 

You're right i have absolutely no knowledge of war zone functions for i have no interest in war other than in finding ways to end it.

 

Sometimes the way to end it is to win it.

 

 

If they are allowed full rein they will turn America into just another warmongering immoral country.

 

Isn't America already a warmongering immoral country? Just sayin, not that I'm criticising or anything. Whatever floats your boat.

 

@ HeyYou

 

 

In all reality, I think we are taking the wrong side in Syria. It has already been more than adequately demonstrated, that we flat out SUCK at nation building.

 

Finally we are in full agreement, except that... you know... the objective has never been to build a nation. The objective is to degrade it to the point where it is non-functional.

 

 

What makes us think overthrowing Assad is going to be any different?

 

If you overthrow Assad you get to build a pipeline. See, there is always a silver lining.

[Aurielius]

@ Gandalf

What I find droll are farewell soliloquies that are somewhat reminiscent of the exposition by a protagonist in a bad Victorian play attempting to fill the plot holes in the performance.

Now if only you are a man of your word and this ends here, but I doubt it. Undoubtedly you are a legend in your own mind but you lack the verbal social skills to convince others without pissing them off. You tried to play the age and experience card early on but didn't bother to check that most of us posting in this thread are peers. When called out for erroneous factual assertions you doubled down instead of a quick Mea Culpa, which would have at least earned you respect for intellectual honesty. That you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome is self evident. I would posit that your vitriolic hatred of Trump is also classic case of Target Fixation (common in novice aviators also). You are so fixated on closing in for the kill that you fail to notice the bogey on your six even after being factually strafed once.

 

There are many good left leaning debaters on this forum who have my respect because they have proven over time that they can make a cognitive argument without being a condescending ass. This forum is actually more village like, in that over time we all know each others strengths and weaknesses. We know better than to go head to head with an opponent in their field of expertise without being damn sure of our ground. Lisnpuppy and I hold very divergent views but she is a well read historian, as such her posts are worth reading and responding to. If she asserts something as fact, I usually go back to check to make sure the ground I'm standing on is as firm as I think it is. Surenas (sadly long gone) had a beautifully eloquent acidic quality to her rebuttals that were a delight to read even if you were the target of it. It was hard to argue with Surenas's facts when it came to the idiosyncrasies of middle eastern culture, she did however know the difference between opinion and fact. Colorwheel with whom I agreed with about almost nothing, knew how to be civil even while decrying 'reactionary' views. She had a refreshing honest naivete to her optimistic appraisal of the relative superiority of liberal values. There are good liberal debaters, you simply are not in that pantheon.