Sanctuary IRL

[bodhisattvah]

I'm from "Nordhagen Beach" and was disappointed in a lot of the map decisions that Beth made. Lots of borked buildings. Lots of locales that just missed the vibe. In general, it does feel like New England. But places that actually look anything like IRL are pretty scarce--in fact, I can probably list them on my fingers. There's only ONE town line sign I can remember seeing in game (passing the Red Rocket station into Concord). The map is way too compressed. Why is this map so much smaller than FO3? Shouldn't it be bigger? *complain complain complain*

 

But I just saw something that quite literally made my jaw drop. This is the google maps satellite view from "Sanctuary", looking towards Concord:

 

 

 

Not only is the cul de sac there with a tree in the middle--there's a farm where I planted rows of mutfruit trees.(?!)

 

Now I know, the bridge location is wrong, the statue is on the wrong side of the river...still...this surprised me. Thought I'd share.

[Ethreon]

Why is the game so small? Cause if it were larger it would be better. Also eat more resources. Also require more time they didn't seem to have.

[montky]

@bodhisattvah

indeed, thanks for sharing this thread.

it's remarkable how given the constraints, a lot of places bear a resemblance.

 

It's clear that Beth put in a fair amount of exegetical research into FO4.

a lot though branches off into the divergent-alt history of Fallout lore,

and "Adamowicz/Avellone vision". (It's like ross vision, davinci-vision, supermarionation-vision, van gogh vision or picaso vision)

Salem for example is a nice pastiche of "Bewitched" and circa 1890s Salem.

 

 

 

FO4 was made with a different engine which has different limitations than some others,

and does a lot of different dynamic interacting with different systems which weren't envisaged to be made interoperable.

this is also partly why the base unmodified FO4 has some of the least unique GameStates of fallout titles to date.

all that's why FO4 has some limitations and 'artistic license'.

the Beth VP for FO4VR explained his hope to eventually overcome that,

and someday make a 1:1 Fallout World/Fallout Verse... quite an ambitious project.

 

VinylicPumaGaming, GameTheory, 8BitGuy, they've all made vids exploring that,

and the likeness of some locations in FO4 is very much based on real life,

and others are artistic license altogether.

it is also partly people anticipating and building games for 'millenial'/'post-millenial'

audience, replete with their audience profile and habits;

"who'd want to trudge through a 1:1 farm simulator, bread simulator or goat simulator"...

 

You'll get a thrill out of games like Universe Sim, Star Citizen etc,

which are striving for Real Time 1:1 recreations and the such like...

that's right, seamless transitions from the ground to orbit, all kinds of cool stuff.

it's a transition between several different games which are running simultaneously.

 

imagine, a fallout game based on those approaches...

instead of buying and re-buying again and again...

one, continuous development of a 1:1 would be very interesting to see develop.

it'd be a little like WoW, EvE, Dust, Arma live, or 2ndLife or perfectworldonline etc...

I think that's where Beth is wanting to go with BethNet.

 

I very much support Bethesda if that's where they're wanting to go with Fallout,

and their idea for an AGI GamesMaster and themed servers and all,

that is the most ambitious I've seen from a games company since Star Citizen, or Fable,

and an awesome project.

 

-----

Fallout is more than just North America,

and I'd kinda like to see more of the fallout verse.

to be sure, Americana is awesome about fallout,

but the Enclave surely was in more places too.

its alluded to, though never before seen.

 

that gives an opportunity to explore the rest of the fallout-verse,

and perhaps see genuinely new factions and locales and all.

 

 

[bodhisattvah]

The timeline has come quite a ways too, and I think it'd be interesting to see how some locales, even ones that have already been explored, evolve.

 

The architecture, texture, and general style of the game, I actually dug very much. The breaks from reality that bothered me were more like (and I've just posted this elsewhere, so apologies for repeating), say Mass Ave or Comm Ave, which cover almost the entire game map, and surely would have survived, are far too distorted and stunted. I mean, realistically, I should be able to follow Mass Ave from Concord to MIT (and beyond!). Could it be nearly unpaved most of the way? Sure? Could it be the most difficult way to go? Sure! And what about the other forts in the Harbor? Where is the Sox logo on those baseball jerseys?! (ok, I actually loved Moe Cronin and his bad history, but come on...Sox logos)

 

I suspect these are issues that only bother a local.

 

Though my hometown was a mere sandbar (where's the iconic hill and water tower?!) at least it's a settlement option. That made up for a lot.

[ibldedibble]

Where is the Sox logo on those baseball jerseys?! (ok, I actually loved Moe Cronin and his bad history, but come on...Sox logos)

 

The lack of logos are probably for copyright and/or trademark reasons. I forget exactly how it works, but I believe you are allowed to use the logo, without a licence, as long as it's used in the same context as it would be used in real life and not "tarnish" the logo in any way. (Blame "tarnish" on my hunger-induced subpar word-thinking.) The way baseball is portrayed (although you can tell Moe that he is an idiot for thinking that's how baseball was played) would probably not be considered "untarnished" in the eyes of the Sox or the MLB. And I doubt getting the licence to use it is cheap... but that's just my guess. :)

 

(Compare it to say the tv-show 'Ballers', which portray the football teams and the NFL in a way that's (more or less) representative of how they are in real life, meaning that the NFL can't get a case against them for it even if they don't pay for a licence.)

[montky]

@bodhisattvah,

re post #4

indeed, I recall your discussions that

riff on a theme similar to this one in the past,

they were good fun and interesting mod collabs and tangents

occurred as a result, so it's all good.

 

ibldedibble's conjecture is ostensibly true,

given the past with Nuka-Cola's history and past litigiousness involving likenesses etc...

some implements manufacturers tried to ask for a royalty based on their likeness,

invoking the "ferrari" precedent in IP infudgement and all...

this is ostensibly why FN, H&K, and Beretta implements are not stock items hehe.

we could have a tangent about this all on it's own, in the debate or lounge some time, i am sure.

 

 

 

your image comparisons also seem to have been included or overlapped with

The Game Theory look at FO4 too.

 

other Mass. folks and Boston Legal or Boston Dynamics fans,

they didn't like the many missing details either -

where is Crane Poole and Schmidt? hehe.

where's Boston Rob, boston block and hard boston accent?

where's Charles Emerson Winchester the first?

 

where is the dunkin' donuts too, as a couple of others have alluded.

Slocum Joes sorta does the job hehe.

Quaker's oats etc...

where's the Remingtons, Winchesters and other implements?

Where's the burroughs computing division etc?

 

As to nordhagen and the different Topology of Boston bay...

I have seen a theory circulating -

if you swim out to the world-box, you can see a lot of infrastructure in the 'bay',

and great lake... you see the poseidon oil pipelines and residential stuff...

as it is folly to build houses underwater like that -

it is logical to assume all of that was once above ground. It is much like "Dunwich" or "atlantis" etc...

more than that floating city out there between Nahant and Spectacle Island,

this stuff down there which was prewar.

 

Climate Change or some topography altering events must have happened there, more like in

"I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream"...

the Great Lakes connect in 2290 to the ocean,

maybe the Enclave did to Canada after the annexation

what is really happening in Nicaragua in the Nicaraguan bypass...

perhaps, to supply more water, or in a futile attempt to alter how the sealevel rise would

alter the topography...

 

similarly, at the lock near Oberland Station,

the topology indicates different water levels and all, which is not found in the real-world variant of Mass.

so, we could infer that,

the topology of the Fallout version of Mass... had a lot happen. tectonic activity or subsidences etc,

perhaps a few super-bolide collisions or something?

 

So, 'nordhagen' beach, as it is known in 2290, is not actually the real location of nordhagen.

pre2077 Nordhagen is underwater...

perhaps that beach is renamed by survivors who were relocated there.

 

-----

there was a similar discussion in the "what is that metal structure at The Slog" thread -

the leading theories being;

a golf driving range (which faces into the mental asylum...)

a boarding ramp,

a diving board structure,

part of a playground or water slide...

 

if it's anything to do with that lake/river...

the course of the water changed significantly from 2077 to circa 2290,

as to dive from that structure and land in water in 2290,

you'd need an exceptionally long diving board.

 

there's no evidence extant that the structure directly adjoined the pool either, and was

later moved to its 2290 location by raiders etc...

it's something of a mystery.

 

 

 

indeed, it's "speculative futures" or "truman capote creative non-fiction/fiction" etc.

art imitating life, somewhat.

Edited April 27, 2017 by montky

[bodhisattvah]

I say "Nordhagen Beach" ...I mean, it's clearly Winthrop. The shore shape is actually pretty true, as is the location...just munchkin scale. (speaking of...coffee bites are totally in a carbon copy of a Dunk's munchkin box) But no, it's not underwater--that's it. It's there. Wading distance from the airport. Where a friend passed out drunk on the runway, after walking over at low tide. (he was a minor and they arrested him right quick)

 

It's weird, because they were clearly looking at a real map, only they shrunk and exaggerated all the bits with a heavy, artsy hand. Like one of those cartoony likenesses you can get drawn at a fair or a mall.

 

Ohhhh the accents...they're actually quite good.

 

And it's not named, but the Deliverer is an extremely accurate model, missing only frame etching and a slightly off caliber. And I've only just learned about Lustron homes--I wouldn't even have guessed those Sanctuary houses were based on something real. And again, they nailed it--they're an exact replica!

[TheGadget1945]

You're forgetting that FO4 is in an "alternative timeline" where 2077 looks like the 1950's. If you go with the "parallel Universes" idea it could be similar to ours but not "the same".

[genolune]

Funny, I mentioned Sanctuary in real life on my thread: Mod Status Updates. I specifically referenced this video:

and I visited Boston/Cambridge area in real life in March. It was definitely interesting to see where the geography of the game, architecture, inspiration, etc. was taken from.

[Bernt]

I haven't been to Boston. But the first time I went to the Mall in FO3 I got a sense of deja vu. I visited DC many years ago and I was amazed at how close the game was. A trip to Las vegas and the Mojave desert is also well worth it if you've played New Vegas. I've uploaded a series of pics and screenshots showing how close the devs have gotten it.