Elves and Iron

[Adipose]

Hasn't standard fantasy lore held that Elves are seriously allergic to iron? Meaning that it could kill them. Like, burn them to death?

[SineWaveDrox]

The Elder Scrolls does not adhere to the lore of other fantasy works.

[Adipose]

The Elder Scrolls does not adhere to the lore of other fantasy works.

 

Hmmm. Ya think?

[Mercury71]

Hasn't standard fantasy lore held that Elves are seriously allergic to iron? Meaning that it could kill them. Like, burn them to death?

There is no such thing as standard fantasy lore. The lore of the elder scrolls is part of an product made up by emplyes of an gaming company called Bethesda. :laugh:

Other games lore is made up by the employes there.

Authors of fantasy books and cartoons make up the lore in the head as they write.

[Adipose]

 

Hasn't standard fantasy lore held that Elves are seriously allergic to iron? Meaning that it could kill them. Like, burn them to death?

There is no such thing as standard fantasy lore. The lore of the elder scrolls is part of an product made up by emplyes of an gaming company called Bethesda. :laugh:

Other games lore is made up by the employes there.

Authors of fantasy books and cartoons make up the lore in the head as they write.

 

 

 

Ah well, it is as you say it is no doubt. However, going back to the very late Forties and into the early Fifties, the standard for literature was that Elves didn't carry or use iron weapons due to a deadly allergic reaction. This has been maintained in great part on up through the years by various authors with the most recent in my experience being Lilith Saintcrow writing in her Trailer Park Fae series. More or less, the canon has been that Elves and industry don't mix.

Iirc, Tolkien wasn't bothered by Elves and iron, however, it's been quite a while since I read the Ring series so my memory may be failing. Some authors maintain the concept, others don't bother because it's awkward and difficult to work into a story line. I've no idea how the whole Elves and iron business got started unless it's roots go back to the pre-Christian, pre-Industrial Revolution era. Many authors, writing in the mid to late 1800s, interpreted the Elf, Goblin, Gnome, etc. business as, basically, holdovers from the "primitive" pre-Christian religions that were defeated/displaced by Christianity and a subsequent rise of large scale industry and the Industrial Revolution. Anyway, it's all fiction so an author can make of it what they will. Basically the same thinking applies to any other "standard" approach to fantasy creatures such as Vampires, Dragons, or whatever. I've been reading fantasy and sci-fi since I was able to read. I read Pilgrim's Progress when I was nine. Lol! Didn't understand a lot of it, but that just gave me the motivation to learn more. As a result I've had the various "standard" views of fantasy beings and creatures pretty well seated in my thinking and I frequently find it humorous when authors step outside the mainstream thinking from the Twentieth C. and readjust their stories to suit their preferences. Well, they can, simply because none of the beings exist beyond imagination.

[cdcooley]

Yes, the iron vs. spirits and faerie folk idea is a very old tradition in western and southern Europe but it's not universal. The "standard fantasy" elf you are thinking of is a small creature with closer ties to the spirit world and nature than to humanity. Tolkien's elves were based more on northern European mythology so they are tall cousins of humanity not diminutive beings tied to the spirit world. After Tolkien's breaking of traditions many authors have felt more free to imagine their fantasy beings outside of the traditional folklore stereotypes. The Elder Scrolls is also pulling (loosely) from northern European culture (especially in Skyrim) so there's no reason to expect an elven weakness to iron on Nirn.

[LeddBate]

Are you suggesting a mod that makes Mer a bit more susceptible to iron weapons? Interesting. And it would certainly give you a reason to hang on to those iron weapons a bit longer.

 

Heh, I can see it now. An enchanted iron warhammer named "Thalmor Ban-hammer". Heh.

[Adipose]

Yes, the iron vs. spirits and faerie folk idea is a very old tradition in western and southern Europe but it's not universal. The "standard fantasy" elf you are thinking of is a small creature with closer ties to the spirit world and nature than to humanity. Tolkien's elves were based more on northern European mythology so they are tall cousins of humanity not diminutive beings tied to the spirit world. After Tolkien's breaking of traditions many authors have felt more free to imagine their fantasy beings outside of the traditional folklore stereotypes. The Elder Scrolls is also pulling (loosely) from northern European culture (especially in Skyrim) so there's no reason to expect an elven weakness to iron on Nirn.

 

Correct. Again, the diminutive stature could be interpreted as a reflection of the reduced belief in such beings as a result of the growth of Christianity and the evolution of the "modern" era. It seems to me that a lot of the fantasy authors writing in the mid to late 20th C. did a fine job of combining the fantasy lore from all across Western Europe. IIrc, one writer, Heinlein maybe, developed the device which had human sized Elves using and wearing weapons/armor that weren't ferrous in nature. Come to think of it, that isn't/wasn't the only example of that in the literature of that period. The concept of a "smoke" sickness arising from heavy industrialization is pretty wide spread in the fantasy of that day...and on up into the 21st C. with some authors. It seems to me that it's more the done thing these days for authors to humanize and merge Elves, Orcs, etc. with humans and human cultures...particularly when writing urban fantasy. Tolkien may well have been the first of the mainstream authors to biologically merge humans and fantasy beings. However, I doubt that. It's more likely that I'm just not aware of any writers who did that. Btw, do we know the material used in making Narsil, Glamdring, Sting, etc.? Also, in TES, we've got a lot of fantasy beings, such as Elves, who's native cultures don't tend toward the use of ferrous metals in making weapons and armor. Let's see, we've got glass, moonstone, orichalcum, ebony, and what not. If I understand correctly, none of those are ferrous in nature. True, in game, we can have the non-human races wearing whatever we want them to wear, however, the designers didn't start out with that approach.

[Adipose]

Are you suggesting a mod that makes Mer a bit more susceptible to iron weapons? Interesting. And it would certainly give you a reason to hang on to those iron weapons a bit longer.

 

Heh, I can see it now. An enchanted iron warhammer named "Thalmor Ban-hammer". Heh.

 

Lol! Works for me. Skin blistering, burning, sloughing off. Mer, writhing and screaming: " I'm melting, I'm melting..." !