Kulharin Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 "If LOOT is telling you a mod has ITMs or UDRs, go with it, because that means someone took the time to check it and report it to the team for the version of the mod they looked at." Except you just stated in an earlier post that it's wrong about Convenient Horses and than cleaning it will cause CTD... The author of ELFX also says LOOT is wrong about the ITM's it flags in his mod.... How can I trust it tell me to clean ITM's from all these mods... if certain mods will break when I clean them? Sounds like it's better off leaving them rather than playing Russian roulette with my load order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 You aren't playing Russian Roulette with your load order. I pointed out CH is an exception because it's a false ITM due to a bug in xEdit. LOOT should be telling you to leave that file alone because of it. The author of ELFX is a different story and the situation would need to be evaluated by an expert. It's highly unlikely his mod requires ITMs since there are very narrow conditions for this to be valid. So if LOOT is telling you they exist and no warning to leave them alone follows that, then clean it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daermonster Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 gotta say I gushed a little when I saw arth responding... That aside, I have not come across anything that is problematic from having ITM's. (for sse that is). We all know SSE is much stabler than oldrim. ITM's were a constant crash causer back there, but newrim handles them fine. follow me on this... mihail doesn't change his forms over from oldrim to new when porting... they seemingly work fine. The advice to change them comes from You Arthmoor, which finding better advisors on skyrim is few and far between, but they work despite your recommendations, could you also be wrong on ITM's needing cleaning in SSE? If I am wrong could you link to an article or something that iscusses why ITM's cause crashes in SSE/Oldrim please. I would like to put this argument to rest especially since Arth shot me down, but I still see no evidence to the contrary of what I have said and stick by it. Sidenote: I'm playing devil's advocate, saying anything even remotely negative about arth is nexus suicide because everyone myself included knows that your brain is wired for skyrim better than most. So please don't like blacklist me or something Mr. Arth lol.... NOTE: Edited to remove reference to another user. ~Jannifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulharin Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 At any rate wouldn't a Mator Smash Patch resolve potential conflicts created by not cleaning ITM's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daermonster Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 At any rate wouldn't a Mator Smash Patch resolve potential conflicts created by not cleaning ITM's?That's the basis of my argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 gotta say I gushed a little when I saw arth responding... That aside, I have not come across anything that is problematic from having ITM's. (for sse that is).Just because you have not encountered it does not mean it isn't true. We all know SSE is much stabler than oldrim.That stability has nothing to do with the content of plugin files though. ITM's were a constant crash causer back there, but newrim handles them fine.ITMs rarely if ever cause crashes, UDRs can though. Especially if they involve navmeshes. None of this has changed with SSE. follow me on this... mihail doesn't change his forms over from oldrim to new when porting... they seemingly work fine.The key word here is "seemingly". They don't work though. Given enough time that save will be corrupt, period. That he chooses not to do thing correctly means he's providing dangerous mods and they should be reported as incompatible with SSE. The advice to change them comes from You Arthmoor, which finding better advisors on skyrim is few and far between, but they work despite your recommendations, could you also be wrong on ITM's needing cleaning in SSE?No. The "advice" comes directly from the game developers, who are the final authority here. THEY know what they're doing despite what people like to claim on forums. This has nothing to do with ITMs anyway, so no, I'm not wrong about them. ITMs cause compatibility issues. They don't generally cause crashes. If I am wrong could you link to an article or something that iscusses why ITM's cause crashes in SSE/Oldrim please.ITMs causing crashes has always been an urban myth. Whoever told you that failed to explain things properly to you. They cause compatibility issues. Unnecessary ones. Hence it's always best to clean them so that such problems no longer exist in your game. I would like to put this argument to rest especially since Arth shot me down, but I still see no evidence to the contrary of what I have said and stick by it.You see no evidence for a bogus argument? Hardly surprising. You're arguing incorrect information to begin with. At any rate wouldn't a Mator Smash Patch resolve potential conflicts created by not cleaning ITM's?No, because Mator Smash is garbage to start with and you also can't patch away the effects of an ITM that way. The tool won't even care that it exists, and Mator himself has said his tools ignore all plugin errors when they process things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulharin Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 OK thanks... couple more question... What negative impacts will uncleaned ITM's have then? And are those consequences the same for the skyrim update / dlc master files the same as it is for mods? Lastly, why would Bethesda have left them that way and not cleaned the official files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daermonster Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 CASE CLOSED, that was the most informative explanation of why cleaning I've read on any forum. Thank you ARTH! Verdict seems to be: CLEAN THEM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 OK thanks... couple more question... What negative impacts will uncleaned ITM's have then? And are those consequences the same for the skyrim update / dlc master files the same as it is for mods?Mostly compatibility issues. You may have a mod loading late with a pile of ITMs that wipes out intended changes from other mods. This isn't a problem unique to Skyrim either. It's been an issue since Morrowind. In the case of the DLCs, yes, it can definitely still be a problem. Buying upgrades for Breezehome is impacted by this due to at least one ITM in Dawnguard. In this particular case we were able to correct for it with USSEP by making sure the proper information was carried. Lastly, why would Bethesda have left them that way and not cleaned the official files?Why indeed. They don't really have an internal process for detecting this sort of thing. Plus they may not feel it's necessary. The only certain thing is that they won't use xEdit on the files because it would necessitate setting up a QA run just to be sure nothing broke, even though we as modders know it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulharin Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Ok thanks. I will clean them... the only confusion is that LOOT seems to indentify mods to be cleaned differently. Some say. SSEEdit Quick Auto Clean found 275 ITM records, 91 deleted references and 2 deleted navmeshes.A guide for running Quick Auto Clean can be found here. The latest version of SSEEdit Experimental is required to use Quick Auto Clean.while others simply say. SSEEdit found 1 ITM record. A cleaning guide is available here. Can I just auto clean them all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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