LE The CK and legal problems left and right

[colourwheel]

Well, individual employees are one thing and bashing them back is called for in many cases, but bashing a company due to the actions of a few employees isn't always called for. In many cases if enough evidence of their bad behavior is thrust tactfully into the faces of a company, they'll do something about it...

 

I can see your point. Just saying i guess it's just a big disappointment on a lot of levels what their company has done. They rushed the release of a game for 11/11/11 which has caused a huge domino effect it seems. Releasing a completely broken utility, creating an upload site with very poor moderation, and they don't expect people to talk badly about them?

 

I would have rather them waited even 3 years to release a great game, bring out a utility that wasn't completely broken, and have an upload site that they would actaully moderate since it is an official site.

 

If anything its just a big disapointment. Sorry Bethesda if i bashed you too much and hope you will accept my appologies.

Edited February 18, 2012 by colourwheel

[Astymma]

Well, individual employees are one thing and bashing them back is called for in many cases, but bashing a company due to the actions of a few employees isn't always called for. In many cases if enough evidence of their bad behavior is thrust tactfully into the faces of a company, they'll do something about it...

 

I can see your point. Just saying i guess it's just a big disappointment on a lot of levels what their company has done. They rushed the release of a game for 11/11/11 which has caused a huge domino effect it seems. Releasing a completely broken utility, creating an upload site with very poor moderation, and they don't expect people to talk badly about them?

 

I would have rather them waited even 3 years to release a great game, bring out a utility that wasn't completely broken, and have an upload site that they would actaully moderate since it is an official site.

 

If anything its just a big disapointment. Sorry Bethesda if i bashed you too much and hope you will accept my appologies.

 

I never said I didn't agree with you hehe. The only thing I'm suggesting to people is to carefully consider their actions.

[colourwheel]

Well, individual employees are one thing and bashing them back is called for in many cases, but bashing a company due to the actions of a few employees isn't always called for. In many cases if enough evidence of their bad behavior is thrust tactfully into the faces of a company, they'll do something about it...

 

I can see your point. Just saying i guess it's just a big disappointment on a lot of levels what their company has done. They rushed the release of a game for 11/11/11 which has caused a huge domino effect it seems. Releasing a completely broken utility, creating an upload site with very poor moderation, and they don't expect people to talk badly about them?

 

I would have rather them waited even 3 years to release a great game, bring out a utility that wasn't completely broken, and have an upload site that they would actaully moderate since it is an official site.

 

If anything its just a big disapointment. Sorry Bethesda if i bashed you too much and hope you will accept my appologies.

 

I never said I didn't agree with you hehe. The only thing I'm suggesting to people is to carefully consider their actions.

 

hehe The only action I have actually displayed is deciding not to mod skyrim right now. Honestly I wouldn't do anything that would be extreme on my part like going to their offical forum or anything knowing that work like mine and work of other like me is not highly smiled upon to start up any kind of debate, that would most likely be removed or locked. The fact that the threads were taken down over a year ago bashing peoples work that destroyed the game series "intended immersiveness" shows they moderate their forums better than the staff at steamworkshop does. I don't want to get into too touchy grounds on legal issues they are dealing with on behalf of other peoples resorces. Seems once you think you understand something about it someone always comes out to contradict your understanding. But most of the time it's always the same thing. I notice it's the authors who are supporting the workshop over the authors not supporting the workshop. It might not be clear most of the time but you only need to see what authors produce between nexus and steamworkshop to know ones views can be thought as being more bias in terms of what they post. Because the EULA even if someone completely thinks they understand it all, it is not very clear to me what they can do or what they intend to do with work uploaded to their workshop.

 

I have a brother in law that works for a legal firm that repressents Mcdonalds. I asked him to look over their EULA and he told me it's plain and simple that according to him after reading it, it's like any legal document in regaurd it is written in the way that upholds thier rights and protection over anyone elses in every way possible. Kinda like a lease for a shopping center, The initial lease is always for the landlord and against the tenant in everyway possible. But sadly Authors who mod their games don't have brokers or lawyers to help amend their leasing terms, so to speak.

Edited February 18, 2012 by colourwheel

[Arthmoor]

Wait. When have Bethesda's employees ever publicly bashed anyone's work on their own official forums? How do they even get a reputation for this when so far as can be seen, they don't do this. Hell, they barely post anything at all except near game launches to comment on potential bug fixes and stuff. The Bethesda forum isn't the Bioware forum, where this sort of thing DOES go on and is apparently considered normal.

 

If you're referring to Bethesda's forum moderators, none of them actually work for the company. They're doing that thankless job for free, getting nothing out of it in return. Besides, I can't even recall instances where their moderators have bashed someone's work. That would make for a very poor moderator.

[colourwheel]

Wait. When have Bethesda's employees ever publicly bashed anyone's work on their own official forums? How do they even get a reputation for this when so far as can be seen, they don't do this. Hell, they barely post anything at all except near game launches to comment on potential bug fixes and stuff. The Bethesda forum isn't the Bioware forum, where this sort of thing DOES go on and is apparently considered normal.

 

If you're referring to Bethesda's forum moderators, none of them actually work for the company. They're doing that thankless job for free, getting nothing out of it in return. Besides, I can't even recall instances where their moderators have bashed someone's work. That would make for a very poor moderator.

 

Told you before Arthmoor I won't argue with you anymore. Anything i do and say should just be fantasy to you.

 

Just think of me as hallucinating or maybe temporary insane. lol

 

Because you always have the answers to everything.

Edited February 18, 2012 by colourwheel

[DrakeTheDragon]

I never said I didn't agree with you hehe. The only thing I'm suggesting to people is to carefully consider their actions.

 

I considered my actions very carefully, and the only actions to come from my side in the future will be taking no actions at all. I've had enough of it.

This whole ordeal is not worth my time, the limited free time I can acquire. I might not yet even possess Skyrim, but I was intending to buy it and mod it, just like I modded Oblivion, but now I reconsidered and none of it will happen.

 

To me modding always was fun. It was creating new things or improving existing ones, the creative part of it always prioritized. I did my mods, because I wanted my game to be that way, and I uploaded them to mod hosts and created WIP threads, because people asked for them and wanted to stay informed about their progress. Once I uploaded them my natural drive for perfection made me create countless of compatibility add-ons, mesh and texture packages for body mods I won't ever use myself, only because other people used them and/or I was asked to do so by these. I'm going out of my way to make my mods as enjoyable as possible to everyone interested in using them. But they're still my mods, and those people using them are not the cause for why I created them, nor do I care for any ranking, endorsements, praises, reputation, or whatever kind of feedback else meaningless to me you can come up with. The only kinds of feedback I'll ever value are critique, ideas, suggestions, requests, all this stuff which helps me improve my creations or in deciding the final shape of certain features. I am "not" doing this "for You" but rather "with" You in a way, as I'm open for everything which could make it more enjoyable to You, and at the same time more enjoyable to me.

 

I'm just tired of people trying to tell me it's all their's once I uploaded it and that they can do all they want with it. I'm especially tired of people telling this to other modders I'm looking up to, and while I couldn't care less about my own stuff, I will not support this wrong mindset by allowing them to do this with my stuff. Well, I can't do anything about other modders' creations, but if those people think my stuff is all their's once I uploaded it, I simply won't upload it anymore, case solved, less hassle for me.

 

If it is the easiest way to not support this false perception of right and wrong, then this is my choosing. I will not be modding Skyrim anytime soon now, and even if I will in future, I won't be sharing this time around. I'll stick with Oblivion and try to finish my projects there. As I already released these and have people waiting for their progress I won't ever take them down either, nor will I ever cease to maintain support in my comments as long as my mods are available for download and people are coming to me with issues they need help with.

 

I'd likely still stick around the forums even if my mods weren't used at all anymore, as there will still be people having issues or questions, maybe even requests for resources, and I just love to help, but that's about it then already.

 

I don't want having to care about these legal hoops, protecting my creations, even searching other mod hosts if anything from me got uploaded there against my denial. This is not what modding is about to me. And if things are going that way, then there will be no modding from me anymore. Simple as that. The entitlement and wrong mindset of today's mod users is driving me away. This is not the kind of people I want to share with, hell, I don't even want to get in contact with these. I'd wish I wouldn't even know of their existance, but it's too late for that one already I guess.

 

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm not doing this because of any EULAs or anything like that. The EULAs are, as was already mentioned, only there to cover the companies' asses. It's the blatant disrespect towards modders in general not only shown by nowaday's generation of mod users but also by certain officials even, like in those answers to questions about stolen mods from the Steam Workshop moderators I read some days ago. No, I don't need any company associatives questioning if there's anything copyrightable in things I created myself from scratch before even considering taking measures against the theft of these, which shouldn't have been allowed from the start, as it is written down word-by-word in the EULA of the Workshop, they just seem not to care about their own rules as long as it doesn't concern them. And that's not something I need to waste my precious time with. If this is the direction Elder Scrolls modding is going, then I'll be going the other direction. Period.

 

...of course only to whom it concerns that is :armscrossed: ...

[Arthmoor]

Told you before Arthmoor I won't argue with you anymore. Anything i do and say should just be fantasy to you.

 

Just think of me as hallucinating or maybe temporary insane. lol

 

Because you always have the answers to everything.

Make a completely bogus claim, expect to be called on it. Simple as that. Cause it sounded as paranoid and conspiratorial as the whole "they're sealing all our mods" stuff.

[Astymma]

Well, DrakeTheDragon, I hate to break this to you but that is the way gaming and modding is going. Games are moving towards centralized hosting/renting services. MMO's are moving towards free to play micro-transaction systems. Modding will eventually move towards a profit sharing model of micro-transactions similar to systems like iTunes. Will there always be free content? Absolutely. In Second Life this issue has already been battled over to death multiple times ad infinitum. What resulted was a strong profit based market and a slightly less strong freebie market. Myself, I offer virtual services and goods there and make approximately 500-1000 US dollars per month off of what are completely virtual products. So, to be honest, I'm already quite used to this direction things are heading. Do I necessarily agree with this direction? No, not really, I'd much prefer a more open and sharing based model. But is that a realistic expectation? Again... no, not really.

[DrakeTheDragon]

Well, DrakeTheDragon, I hate to break this to you but that is the way gaming and modding is going. Games are moving towards centralized hosting/renting services. MMO's are moving towards free to play micro-transaction systems. Modding will eventually move towards a profit sharing model of micro-transactions similar to systems like iTunes. Will there always be free content? Absolutely. In Second Life this issue has already been battled over to death multiple times ad infinitum. What resulted was a strong profit based market and a slightly less strong freebie market. Myself, I offer virtual services and goods there and make approximately 500-1000 US dollars per month off of what are completely virtual products. So, to be honest, I'm already quite used to this direction things are heading. Do I necessarily agree with this direction? No, not really, I'd much prefer a more open and sharing based model. But is that a realistic expectation? Again... no, not really.

Yes, I know, of course. It isn't like I was walking through the world for 30 years without watching. All I'm saying is, at this point "I" will be out of it.

 

Oh, but, I didn't even mention those points of where modding, or gaming in general, is going, did I? Wasn't I only talking about the disrespect shown towards modders these days, even from official authorities aiming to make profit of their mods? Or a massive mod-hosting and distribution platform the maintainers of which don't even care about their own rules and show only disrespect towards the modders the creations of whom are all that keeps their platform going in the first place?

 

Well, at this point I couldn't care less, as it will never affect me personally, due to my own choosing not to use it. So in theory they could do all they want now. But still, all I'm saying is simply, I will not support this.

[Astymma]

Oh, but, I didn't even mention those points of where modding, or gaming in general, is going, did I?

 

I was responding to the last part of your post where you said:

 

If this is the direction Elder Scrolls modding is going, then I'll be going the other direction. Period.

 

So...the answer to your question is yes, you did. But, of course, opting out is a valid response to the direction things are going. It's a principled response. I don't agree with it but I can see the reasoning behind such a choice.