Why is the Fallout 4 modding community is weaker than Skyrim ?

[gmg2dave]

To both Moksha8088 and Llamma, I think, myself, personally, that having a voiced protagonist is a good thing, but then I've played games where they were, others where they weren't and neither one has left me saying, I'll never play that again because of the lack of a voiced protagonist. Yes, it was great to hear Commander Shepard talk, and it added a lot to the game because of the quality of the voice acting. In FO4, yes, I do enjoy hearing a voiced protagonist. But to my mind, and I would say to the majority of the players out there, the story is far and away more important than listening to your character talk. It wouldn't have mattered a bit if Shepard's voice acting was superb if the story the game told was crap. I buy and play games for the story, not for the voices.

 

Llamma, I've never DL'd one of your mods for anything but the stories you tell. I do NOT care in the slightest if when playing your mod that I get to hear MY character talk. I got the mod to hear Heather talk and tell her story. So, seriously, if you feel limited because you think that we wouldn't DL a mod just because we can't hear our character talk, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. Strenuously! You write whatever story you want to write, that's what I want, not inane babble from MY character, but a deep, meaningful story from YOUR character. And that is what you have delivered on every time, and why I DL your mods.

[TheDungeonDweller]

Fallout just has a smaller fanbase than TES.

[Moksha8088]

 

However, If I wanted to tell an entirely different story (and I have ideas for those) the voiced protag limits what I can do tremendously. Like, to the point that I may go back to Skyrim to do what I'm interested in doing next. In FO4 I cannot create excitingly different/new content because there isn't the kind of dialogue available to me to do that.

 

Fallout 4's loss would be Skyrim's gain. Personally, I would love to see a LlamaRCA mod in Skyrim (especially Skyrim SE). It is modders who keep the game fresh and alive. Three cheers for those who create the advanced character, new lands, and quest mods.

[llamaRCA]

 

Llamma, I've never DL'd one of your mods for anything but the stories you tell. I do NOT care in the slightest if when playing your mod that I get to hear MY character talk. I got the mod to hear Heather talk and tell her story. So, seriously, if you feel limited because you think that we wouldn't DL a mod just because we can't hear our character talk, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. Strenuously! You write whatever story you want to write, that's what I want, not inane babble from MY character, but a deep, meaningful story from YOUR character. And that is what you have delivered on every time, and why I DL your mods.

 

I'm blushing. Thank you <3

 

 

 

 

However, If I wanted to tell an entirely different story (and I have ideas for those) the voiced protag limits what I can do tremendously. Like, to the point that I may go back to Skyrim to do what I'm interested in doing next. In FO4 I cannot create excitingly different/new content because there isn't the kind of dialogue available to me to do that.

 

Fallout 4's loss would be Skyrim's gain. Personally, I would love to see a LlamaRCA mod in Skyrim (especially Skyrim SE). It is modders who keep the game fresh and alive. Three cheers for those who create the advanced character, new lands, and quest mods.

 

 

I was thinking about Skyrim SE. Maybe some day. I can't do it until after I've completed Heather's DLC content.

[SpicyDogfort]

While I'm sure it isn't the main reason at all, a large contributor is likely the fact that a lot of people had negative first impressions and weren't into or didn't think about the potential held by modding and/or the settlement system, whereas games like Skyrim and Fallout: New Vegas were acclaimed by both critics and players.

[TheDungeonDweller]

Everyone liked Fallout: New Vegas due to it being made by Obsidian. Almost like Obsidian was trying to make a subtle point to Bethesda. :D

[tomomi1922]

The lack of documentation plays into the learning curb issue. Throughout the code, there are comments like "See http://institute.bethsoft.com/index.php?title=SOMETHINGTECHNICAL for more information". Well, that URL doesn't work and never has. So figuring out things like how the companion system works and how the workshop system works... are all basically through trial and error. There is a huge learning curb for anyone wanting to make a mod of any complexity. I should know, I have been working on mine for 10 months...

 

I totally agree with what was said here. The lack of documentation and knowledge sharing makes every single creator almost having to reinvent the wheel all over again when they try to do something. Sure there are tutorials, but they often cover only the very basics. I personally want to create outfits (or so far this is what I am more proficient at). But I ran into so many little technical problems and nobody answered my questions. Problems like bloated armors: sometime certain outfit/accessories suddenly make the character bloated, but it only happens to some and not all outfits, which literately the exact slot node setup. I struggle with glow map (some works, others don't, using the same method). I haven't even got to material swaps and alpha (transparency). Oh, did I mention that there is no good tutorial to make Normal map for FO4?

 

All these difficulties just slow down and burn out creative people. If I keep at it (like literately spending so much time researching/testing, not playing) then I will eventually figure out a small piece of the puzzle. At this rate, I may take 1-2 years before I fully grasp the ability of some advanced outfits out there right now. Mod authors (the good ones) sometimes do not feel like sharing or simply do not have good communication skill/patience to explain (frankly, this stuff is not exactly straight forward). So unless the modding community is more open to sharing knowledge, a lot of amazing ideas stop dead in the track.

 

The other thing to consider is that quantity does not mean they are all -quality- mods either.

Take a look over at the Skyrim mods, sure there are hundreds of "companions", however a huge amount of those basically amount to a pair of breasts and ass that carries your stuff and follows you around. :sad:

How many of those have the interaction of either of Llama's Fallout companions? I still remember my NV game time with Willow very fondly for example. :smile: Just something too think about.

 

Hey, sometimes we need just that: a hauler, and an extra sword/gun. I don't have multiple companion mods in FO4. But I have this old mod (not on Nexus anymore) that uses primitive ways (with some console command) to get an extra companion who doesn't take up a companion slot, but also don't really talk.

 

But that aside, I have to admit that Skyrim mod library is about 100x thicker than Fallout 4. The selection is just so plentiful.

 

One obstacle that creates an additional burden on Fallout 4 mod creations for quests and companions is having a voice for the player. It can be done with good results, but it does limit some creativity for mod authors. Still, with such mods as Heather Casdin, Ellen the Cartographer, Tales from the Commonwealth, Fusion City Rising, and Outcasts and Remnants there is no reason for Fallout to be considered the limited sibling.

Voices isn't hard for some people, like myself. I work in the film industry. I can literately get a professional actor to work for free or with a very small pay. I can properly direct and record voices. I have access to high-end studios (like the one Pandora uses to record and film their ads), although studio is overkill. Because I can setup a professional recording station with $3000+ equipment which either I own or have no problem investing. I also know how to process audio professionally (maybe not close to a real audio engineer).

 

What stops me? I don't even know where to begin to create companion mods. All the technical know-how and learning curve just stops me on the track. I am willing to learn, but all these learning right now seems like searching needles under the Pacific ocean. Offer for collaboration or even messaging modders directly often yield no return. They simply don't answer their PM .... even for a simple question ... for whatever reason. So my ultimate goal of creating companions or complex quests is likely out the window. I am already so overwhelmed with little technical problems with outfits, feeling burned out already.

[BlahBlahDEEBlahBlah]

"What stops me? I don't even know where to begin to create companion mods. All the technical know-how and learning curve just stops me on the track. I am willing to learn, but all these learning right now seems like searching needles under the Pacific Ocean"

 

I haven't used it, and it's not quite perfect yet according to comments, but I like the author and it seems sound, so I bet it can get you off the ground:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22447/?

It's interesting if you just want a quick start companion.

[llamaRCA]

 

The lack of documentation plays into the learning curb issue. Throughout the code, there are comments like "See http://institute.bethsoft.com/index.php?title=SOMETHINGTECHNICAL for more information". Well, that URL doesn't work and never has. So figuring out things like how the companion system works and how the workshop system works... are all basically through trial and error. There is a huge learning curb for anyone wanting to make a mod of any complexity. I should know, I have been working on mine for 10 months...

 

I totally agree with what was said here. The lack of documentation and knowledge sharing makes every single creator almost having to reinvent the wheel all over again when they try to do something. Sure there are tutorials, but they often cover only the very basics. I personally want to create outfits (or so far this is what I am more proficient at). But I ran into so many little technical problems and nobody answered my questions. Problems like bloated armors: sometime certain outfit/accessories suddenly make the character bloated, but it only happens to some and not all outfits, which literately the exact slot node setup. I struggle with glow map (some works, others don't, using the same method). I haven't even got to material swaps and alpha (transparency). Oh, did I mention that there is no good tutorial to make Normal map for FO4?

 

All these difficulties just slow down and burn out creative people. If I keep at it (like literately spending so much time researching/testing, not playing) then I will eventually figure out a small piece of the puzzle. At this rate, I may take 1-2 years before I fully grasp the ability of some advanced outfits out there right now. Mod authors (the good ones) sometimes do not feel like sharing or simply do not have good communication skill/patience to explain (frankly, this stuff is not exactly straight forward). So unless the modding community is more open to sharing knowledge, a lot of amazing ideas stop dead in the track.

 

 

None of that is new to Fallout 4, though. We've never had great documentation for the editors, never had great access to other people to tell us how to do things, etc. Skryim and FO4 are easier in some ways than the older games because of all of the youtube tutorials. It's easier to pick up new skills because of people like Seddon4494 and what he offers. Yes, it's the basics, but it takes time to figure out the basics too. Once you have those down it's easier to explore doing things in more innovative ways.

 

Being a mod author for a Beth game requires a certain determination and willingness to spend stupid amounts of time either looking for answers or experimenting to figure out how to do something. It's tedious and difficult work. I'm not sure why some of us love it so much, but it does take a certain willingness to endure the unpleasant learning curves to produce anything.

 

Re: building companions

Getting voice acting for a companion can be a challenge I guess, but the reason FO4 is more difficult to work in than earlier titles is because of the voiced protag and the annoying dialogue wheel. I agree that there isn't good information out there on how to build a companion using the vanilla system, but if you look through the companion category it's because very few new companions taht use the system have been built and released. You could check out Seddon's stuff because he gives you the basics and Kris Takahashi (author of Tales from the Commonwealth) also has a couple of tutorials on youtube about working with NPCs.

 

I'm not trying to minimize your frustration. I've been there. When I first started modding in FO3 I spent hours and hours and hours going through old forum threads looking for topics relevant to building companions, creating packages, setting up dialogue, etc. The struggle is real.

[Moksha8088]

Sometimes self-taught mod authors can do incredible things with their first efforts, such as Kris Takahashi's Interesting NPCs for Skyrim or Smartbluecat's Inigo for Skyrim.