Intermittent Crashes to Desktop - Mod Order?

[Wewpt]

I've spent hours re-ordering my mods in an attempt to resolve Skyrim crashes.

 

I used NMM for most installs except where the mod instructions recommended a manual install, which I did.

 

I've run LOOT and TES5Edit where necessary.

 

I really thought I had it fixed but lately (for some reason), they're starting to occur again. I cannot see any pattern to it, and am still wondering if it's my load order that's the culprit.

 

Can anyone advise as to what changes I might make (if any) that may resolve the crashes please?

 

Mod Order :

 

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
WM Flora Fixes.esp
SPERG.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
FISS.esp
SkyUI.esp
Complete Alchemy & Cooking Overhaul.esp
SPERG.esp
SPERG-CACO-Deep-Integration-Patch.esp
Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
SPERG Immersive Armors.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
ScopedBows_EagleEyeTweak.esp
ScopedBows_ArrowTweaks.esp
SPERG-DB.esp
SPERG-DG.esp
Atlas Compass Tweaks.esp
Atlas Legendary.esp
Inigo.esp
ScopedBows.esp
CraftingSupplies_AIO_ALL.esp
NPCProtectionTweaks.esp
Skill Config.esp
SkyCompleteLegendary.esp
LevelersTower.esp
InigoMCM.esp
Masters of Death.esp
SkyTweak.esp
buildingmaterialsgodchest.esp
SpellTomeResurrectDead.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
Alternate Start -- New Beginnings.esp

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

 

Wewpt

 

[metaforce]

Please download and install these 2 mods. Then play the game to test it. If it crashes, post the result here

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/72725/?

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/76747/?

 

In addition...add these lines to your skyrim.ini

 

[Papyrus]
fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0
bEnableLogging=1
bEnableTrace=1
bLoadDebugInformation=1

 

Post the resulting papyrus log here.

 

Did you ever remove any mods during this playthrough? Your savegame might be suffering from unattached script instances.

 

You can use this utility to check and correct

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53045/?tab=2&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D53045&pUp=1

Edited June 7, 2017 by metaforce

[Wewpt]

Thank you metaforce, I'll do as you advise and reply once I've determined whether I'm still having issues.

 

 

Did you ever remove any mods during this playthrough? Your savegame might be suffering from unattached script instances.

 

No I have not. Any time I added or removed any major mods (anything that doesn't simply add an object (i.e. CraftingSupplies_AIO_ALL.esp or buildingmaterialsgodchest.esp)), I've restarted anew.

 

 

P.S. I've also got a new issue, a weird one.

 

If I sneak up behind someone and use a dagger to cut their throat, it seems to work. But the NPC doesn't die...they get back up and make the motions of cutting someone's throat and then drop to the ground dead (intermittent, doesn't happen all the time, happens even with non-upgraded, non-magical, vanilla daggers so I'm guessing it isn't damage or magic related)....heh. Hopefully your instructions will help with this as well.

 

Again thank you for taking the time to help, I'll respond either way once I've had a bit of time to test.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Wewpt

[Wewpt]

Ok I did as instructed and manually installed all suggested programs.

 

I'm still experiencing crashes to desktop when zoning and when looting.

 

The logs show nothing, so it's a real crash, I'm looking into possible OS (Win 7 Ult) possibilities as being the culprit.

 

Beyond that, I also suspect there's some sort of hard limit on the amount of damage that can be dealt as a reson for the NPC's dropping and getting back up and performing throat slice animation. I'm going to continue to pursue this, it may well be that SPERG damage increase perks coupled with using 'Leveler's' weapons are at least part of the issue.

 

-

 

If you can just confirm that my load order does not seem to be a problem I'd appreciate it and will go froim there (will start a new game and enable mods a few at a time until I can nail down the ones causing issues).

 

Thanks again.

[ymf331]

you have a pretty short list, but honestly the only way to be 100% sure there's no problem with your load order is to check the plugins yourself. i personally first check all the conflicting files (using mo) and if a script is being overwritten, i load them up with geck and look at them. depending on the mods and what they do, i decide which should overwrite which (i don't change them). then i load up the full plugin list in tes5edit. once it finishes, i right-click in the left side (the list of plugins) and pick "apply filter" from the menu. in the top left of the dialogue should be some checkboxes. all should be selected except for the FIRST and FOURTH ones. click the "filter" button, and then i can see all the records in the newly added plugin which conflict with another one. i use these records to determine where i should place the new plugin in my load order, and also whether or not i need to either a) find a patch or b) make one. all of this depends on sensibility and one's own judgement, but be careful when making any changes. a web search for "skyrim conflict resolution" will give a lot more information.

 

by following these procedures i never have to wonder what a mod does or how it might affect the game. sometimes i see other things such as, say, a record that invokes a script being overwritten. not all problems can be avoided this way, but careful modding is the only way i've found to come to a satisfactory result in the end. hope this helps.

Edited June 9, 2017 by ymf331

[Wewpt]

Very helpful thank you.

 

Some mods are known (to me) to cause problems, such as SkyTweak. It doesn't seem to matter where it is in the load list, it always seems to cause problems (even after doing a restore from within the mod, even as a brand new install on a new install of Skyrim). Leveler's Tower teleport pad has also caused me issues, I just refrain from using it at all, still love this mod. And I've used MO, and it shows conflicts but I never bothered to look to see exactly what those conflicts were, you've given me direction for that.

 

TES5Edit...some mods state outright, not to run it on them (I can't recall which of the mods I use state this off hand).

 

Not familiar with geck. I'll look into that as well. Just looked, part of the Creation Kit right? I may have to DL and check that out if it's got some useful tools, I just never bothered looking at it since I don't actually develop anything.

 

I used to use MO, but :

 

- My understanding is that the author(s) have put a hold on continuing to develop it and are working on NMM, am I wrong?

- It keeps complaining about a problem with Steam. I've gone back to Steam and re-downloaded Skyrim, but to no avail. So I really don't know what the problem is there. At one point I *thought* it was OS related (virus, lack of updates, lack of required files) but it wasn't (a clean install of the OS and reinstallation of all OS updates plus all other required files and drivers, confirmed this). It's not hardware related either (i.e. bad sectors on hdd, insufficient memory, errant or questionable video settings, etc).

 

Depending on funds and time, I may just bite the bullet and buy the Special Edition and see if I have better luck with that. Honestly though, I'm feeling somewhat guilty for not becoming a premium member here, this site is responsible for a fair few hours of enjoyment for me and my wife. The funds just aren't available at the moment but when they are, upgrading my membership here will take priority over buying SE.

 

As well I play for fun, I wasn't really expecting or wanting to spend hours trying to 'fix' the game so the mods would run properly, but as usual I've gotten caught up in playing so as time permits, I'm prepared to take whatever time is necessary (within reason) to resolve. But there does come a point where not using suspected problematic mods is preferrable to trying to make them play nice.

 

Now the crashes seem to be inventory related. Icons within the inventory change when I store something, and sometimes storing an item causes the damage/armor rating of an item still in inventory to change to a rediculously high number (hundreds of thousands). Exiting and re-entering inventory does not fix this, but zoning does...seems very odd to me.

 

And I'm still having the video issues related to throat slicing.

 

I think I'll wipe Skyrim, re-download, verify my vid drivers are up to date and reinstall. Then start with the Unofficial patches and updates then install one or two mods at a time. When I run into issues I'll refer to the info I get (if any) based on metaforce's advice, then follow it up with the instructions you've provided.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Wewpt

[ymf331]

i don't mean to use tes5edit for cleaning itm records. you can use it to peek inside the plugins and see where game records overlap. you can use that to determine load order or even make patches. how much time you invest in tying all the mods together is up to you, and what works for me obviously may not work for you. all the tools are at your disposal to at least check and see if there's a problem before you've been playing for a couple dozen hours and hit a wall.

 

i haven't touched nmm in years, but i run v1.3.11 of mod organizer on windows 10 without any issues or errors. if nmm allows you to see which files are being overwritten between mods and rearrange them, it should work just as well. geck is a script editor that can be found on the nexus. i just use it in case i need to look at the scripts, nothing more.

[metaforce]

Sorry for my late answer..I almost forgot.

 

I can confirm what ymf331 said already. The length of your loadorder (and I guess it will grow in the future) suggests using MO instead of NMM. It simply allows for much better fine-tuning than NMM does.

Some time ago I was using NMM too of course and I ran into problems and glitches I wasn't able to fix. I know today that even trying to fix them was futile in NMM since NMM doesnt give you the necessary data. Dont misunderstand...I dont say that NMM is a bad tool or is badly done. For a casual modder its handy and easy to use. It works well with short load orders or loadorders which dont contain alot of scripted mods. You're approaching a point where you really should use MO. There is a 2.0 version in the works which is still in beta (afaik). Get the stable version available on the Nexus. Once you've learned how to use it, you'll never regret it. It's what I use too. I give you my word on that.

Why do I say all that? It is impossible for us to say what exactly causes your issues. And NMM will simply not give you the necessary information to fix it. Your problem is somewhere within the structure of scripts in your mods. I can say that much.

I dont know whether MOs maker is working on NMM, but either way imho it doesnt make MO obsolete. Not at all.

[Wewpt]

Followed all advice given, even spent the best part of a day reading and reading, learning how to use bash and bain and a slew of other programs. Installed mods one by one (first being MO, which I was hesitant to use), and what is the outcome? Worse than before.

 

***Btw, one of the things I like about NMM that MO does not do, is warn you about overwrites and provide the option at the time of enabling, to decide what overwrites what...

 

Installed MO, SKSE, LOOT, TESV5Edit, Wyre Bash all to the instructions on STEP or NexusMods Forums to the letter.

 

MO complained about SKSE ini missing entries, so I created the ini, problem gone. Added the Unofficial patch, then one at a time loaded other mods, each time running Skyrim and trying a new game (to just after the character creation screen) to ensure audio was working, cart wasn't jumping all over the place, menus worked, etc.)

 

I got to SkyUI, and there's where the problems started. Cart jumping all over the place (eventually getting stuck), no game dialogue while in cart (not even subtitles), and on and on.

 

Went back to MO, disabled ALL mods, ran the game....NO CHANGE. Game totally buggered. Ran the vanilla Skyrim launcher, everything working fine.

 

I'm done with MO. I had problems with it before right after SKSE-Script was loaded, and now even when I go back into MO and enable only SKSE, once again it complains about the ini not having entries (they are there, I created them previously to resolve the error the first time).

 

Obviously everyone's situation is different, but I was confident with all the support I'd been getting here and my own determination to read everything I could and educate myself that I could make all these tools and mods work without a hitch, but that's not going to happen.

 

This has got to the point where it's no longer fun, and I am losing interest in modding altogether tbh.

 

I'm going back to NMM, and I'll work through it on my own to the best of my abilities but I'm done trying to dig and dig and troubleshoot, I'll just use the ones that work and forego using the ones that seem to cause issues.

 

 

I want to thank the two that responded, that you're so willing to help says a lot about you as a person and I really do appreciate that, I really do.

 

Thanks again, take care.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Wewpt

[ymf331]

the cart will jump around sometimes if you forget to run fnis after adding an animation, but there might be other reasons too. mo does have some assembly required as a trade-off for the extra features, which i guess is why different mod managers exist.

 

to a certain extent, modding can be a lot of effort, and you're right that the point is to have fun. my labor of love very well could be your nightmare from hell. i'd much rather have been helpful than burn people out on modding, so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt.