Creation Club Summer 2017

[DogtoothCG]

 

 

 

 

I am in no position to judge

 

And that is all I need to hear to know just how little you understand the Creation Engine or the Creation kit but, Sure lets get back to topic.

 

Where is the proof that the Creation Club will ruin the community or even have any effect on it other then a few mods falling behind a Pay Wall?

 

I suspect it will have little impact on the PC players at all but, for console players it's could be a game changer. (But I know from other topics how you feel about anyone who chooses to play on a console so you don't even need to bother telling me you don't care about them!)

 

 

Where is your proof that the CC won't destroy the community? Guess we'll see. We're all just making assumptions here. The response has been pretty negative so far. Those that support this are obviously in the minority.

 

I think this is a crap move by Bethesda. And with their track record of treating smaller developers, I have little faith they won't take this as an opportunity to screw over the modding community as a whole. So a handful of modders get a little money? Whoopdeefreakingdoo. There are literally thousands of modders who won't. And some of those may end up receiving C&D letters because their mods may look or act similar to what will be on the CC. If money is involved, you can bet they'll pursue some sort of action. Even if it's just threatening letters. Hell, I've done that with video work I've done with people who stole my material. It's very simple. Bethesda will have no issue doing it.

 

So...no. In my opinion, it's just not worth it. It's going to cause a rift in the community. Worse than the last time they tried this. You want to make money modding games? Pick another game. There are plenty out there.

 

Once again, neither Bethesda, nor any affiliated parties has any intentions of sending any C&D's based on competing products.

[MightyZ0G]

 

 

In any event, it is BECAUSE PC is less than a third of the market for beth games, that they have no reason to mess with free mods. Also, keep in mind, beth and steam cooperated to make the various script extenders work on steam games. Are you expecting Beth to completely reverse course in their support of modding their games?

 

And one could argue that beth doing away with free mods, could just as easily REDUCE their profits on their games. One of the major appeals of beth's open world games, is BECAUSE there are free mods, and beth releases the modding tools. (which the companies fighting AGAINST modders do not. also, they shut down one project that hacked the code of the game executable... already a violation of the games EULA. so, totally different situation there.)

 

At this point, we don't know what is going to happen, how well it is going to work, or what impact it will have on the community. Everyone is just shooting in the dark, which, in reality, is pointless, and likely just an exercise in frustration. It's obvious that some folks want to preach their gloom and doom, and nothing anyone else says is going to change their minds, so, I am going to stop trying. In the end, the CC IS coming. End of Story. As for everything else, we will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

 

less than a third? PC resulted for only 14% of total sales

PS3 outsold PC 2 to 1, Xcox360 outsold both together. over 80% of sales went to platforms with NO mods.

the PC is a headache for publishers and developers. it is the smallest section of the market with the most diverse hardware combinations.

for Xbox or PS they make one version that doesn't need fiddling with to make it run on 3 different OSs one 1 platform.

that would free up loads of time for devs and make bug testing much easier.

console users are resigned to paying for every little thing in their games. if over 80% are in the habit of paying why would people looking to maximise profits worry about upsetting that minority?

 

and don't forget, that minority who want free modding are also able to make free mods for consoles (if I am understanding the posts in the modding forums correctly). that could have a much bigger effect on projected sales of paid mods and elicit a response.

 

just because a developer has allowed or even encouraged modding in the past doesn't mean that the publishers won't decide on a different strategy as the market place evolves.

Edited June 19, 2017 by mighty zog

[Zzyxzz]

I have no problem, that Bethesda would hire modders to create DLC sized mods. Like Far Harbor, Nuka World. The modding community has a lot of talented people for that. Also small quest mods or interesting NPC mods. Bethesda hires voice actors and stuff for your ideas etc. that would be a dream for many modders.

I have also no problem to pay money for those mods/DLCs. Totally fine with that.

But there is a huge doubt, that it will be only such mods. Paid mods already have a very bad reputation.

 

Lets have a view at the Creation Club video. What do we see? Oh yes, crab armor... new weapons... if they want to make new DLCs and quest mods, or in general mods that add new content you can actually play. It would have been better to show their Far Harbor and Nuka World DLCs with the message:

"You are already nostalgic about Far Harbor and miss the salty air? You want to take another ride in Nuka-World? We at Bethesda love new content and we want to give you more! With your help! Create that new content with us! Create your own DLCs with our support. Realize your ideas and thoughts!"

[MightyZ0G]

I have no problem, that Bethesda would hire modders to create DLC sized mods. Like Far Harbor, Nuka World. The modding community has a lot of talented people for that. Also small quest mods or interesting NPC mods. Bethesda hires voice actors and stuff for your ideas etc. that would be a dream for many modders.

I have also no problem to pay money for those mods/DLCs. Totally fine with that.

But there is a huge doubt, that it will be only such mods. Paid mods already have a very bad reputation.

 

Lets have a view at the Creation Club video. What do we see? Oh yes, crab armor... new weapons... if they want to make new DLCs and quest mods, or in general mods that add new content you can actually play. It would have been better to show their Far Harbor and Nuka World DLCs with the message:

"You are already nostalgic about Far Harbor and miss the salty air? You want to take another ride in Nuka-World? We at Bethesda love new content and we want to give you more! With your help! Create that new content with us! Create your own DLCs with our support. Realize your ideas and thoughts!"

that would have had a good response all round.

DLC adding things that people actually want

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

In any event, it is BECAUSE PC is less than a third of the market for beth games, that they have no reason to mess with free mods. Also, keep in mind, beth and steam cooperated to make the various script extenders work on steam games. Are you expecting Beth to completely reverse course in their support of modding their games?

 

And one could argue that beth doing away with free mods, could just as easily REDUCE their profits on their games. One of the major appeals of beth's open world games, is BECAUSE there are free mods, and beth releases the modding tools. (which the companies fighting AGAINST modders do not. also, they shut down one project that hacked the code of the game executable... already a violation of the games EULA. so, totally different situation there.)

 

At this point, we don't know what is going to happen, how well it is going to work, or what impact it will have on the community. Everyone is just shooting in the dark, which, in reality, is pointless, and likely just an exercise in frustration. It's obvious that some folks want to preach their gloom and doom, and nothing anyone else says is going to change their minds, so, I am going to stop trying. In the end, the CC IS coming. End of Story. As for everything else, we will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

 

less than a third? PC resulted for only 14% of total sales

PS3 outsold PC 2 to 1, Xcox360 outsold both together. over 80% of sales went to platforms with NO mods.

the PC is a headache for publishers and developers. it is the smallest section of the market with the most diverse hardware combinations.

for Xbox or PS they make one version that doesn't need fiddling with to make it run on 3 different OSs one 1 platform.

that would free up loads of time for devs and make bug testing much easier.

console users are resigned to paying for every little thing in their games. if over 80% are in the habit of paying why would people looking to maximise profits worry about upsetting that minority?

 

and don't forget, that minority who want free modding are also able to make free mods for consoles (if I am understanding the posts in the modding forums correctly). that could have a much bigger effect on projected sales of paid mods and elicit a response.

 

just because a developer has allowed or even encouraged modding in the past doesn't mean that the publishers won't decide on a different strategy as the market place evolves.

 

So far, FO4 has sold 4.6 million copies on steam. Even though that may be a small percentage of total sales, that is still MILLIONS of dollars. I don't think any publisher in their right mind is going to ignore that kind of money.

 

The 'minority that want free mods'????? So, you are trying to tell me that the majority of players WANT to pay for content? Really? Then they should all be quite happy to see CC come about, and give them someone to throw money at for their content....... Why do I find that so difficult to believe? Maybe because it just isn't true.....

[MightyZ0G]

I should have said "the minority that feels entitled to free mods"

the majority of gamers already have to pay for their extra content as until recently, that's all there was on consoles.

 

I am not saying they will serve C&Ds on F4Edit and F4SE and Nexus, et al, I am saying that with the industry going after free modding and even the use of console commands to cheat in games, once precedents are set other publishers will see how they can use them to their advantages.

Zenimax wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't look at what Take2 and Topware are doing and work out ways to increase their profits.

they could put a stop to free modding at there is nothing we can do to stop them.

we could boycott their games out of protest but seeing that PC makes up such a small percentage of the market and only a small percentage of PC users would actually go that far, it would make no difference to Zenimax.

if every PC user did boycott the next BGS title, the accounting boys will point out the cost of porting to the PC vs zero sales and recommend that they stop bothering with PC ports to save time and money which would be better spent on the console versions.

 

given that PS4 users are desperate for mods that add new quests and content, if Sony are happy with CC mini DLC packs then there is a market twice the size of the PC market that is desperate to pay for new content.

 

but you have to take into account that there is a mod limit which includes DLC as well as the 2GB limit on console mods, it won't take many free mods to stop people from being able to buy CC mini-DLCs.

CC cost Zenimax money so they will want a return on that.

Bethesda.net is a mess, costs them money and for no return.

if you were working for Zenimax, what would you do?

remember that Take2 have set a precedent that could be applied to F4SE and F4Edit and Topware have set a precedent to lock the developer tools and console commands so that they can sell cheat codes for god mode. and every free mod downloaded means a lost sale of a CC mod

[MrJoseCuervo]

I should have said "the minority that feels entitled to free mods"

the majority of gamers already have to pay for their extra content as until recently, that's all there was on consoles.

 

I am not saying they will serve C&Ds on F4Edit and F4SE and Nexus, et al, I am saying that with the industry going after free modding and even the use of console commands to cheat in games, once precedents are set other publishers will see how they can use them to their advantages.

Zenimax wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't look at what Take2 and Topware are doing and work out ways to increase their profits.

they could put a stop to free modding at there is nothing we can do to stop them.

we could boycott their games out of protest but seeing that PC makes up such a small percentage of the market and only a small percentage of PC users would actually go that far, it would make no difference to Zenimax.

if every PC user did boycott the next BGS title, the accounting boys will point out the cost of porting to the PC vs zero sales and recommend that they stop bothering with PC ports to save time and money which would be better spent on the console versions.

 

given that PS4 users are desperate for mods that add new quests and content, if Sony are happy with CC mini DLC packs then there is a market twice the size of the PC market that is desperate to pay for new content.

 

but you have to take into account that there is a mod limit which includes DLC as well as the 2GB limit on console mods, it won't take many free mods to stop people from being able to buy CC mini-DLCs.

CC cost Zenimax money so they will want a return on that.

Bethesda.net is a mess, costs them money and for no return.

if you were working for Zenimax, what would you do?

remember that Take2 have set a precedent that could be applied to F4SE and F4Edit and Topware have set a precedent to lock the developer tools and console commands so that they can sell cheat codes for god mode. and every free mod downloaded means a lost sale of a CC mod

 

How about the modders who "Feel entitled" to be paid?

 

Mods are free. They have been free for years. The truth is some modders are extremely butthurt that You-tubers are making a living talking about mods. You know why they make money? Because people find THEM entertaining, not the video of your mod. If anything you should be thankful they give you the exposure.

[Ethreon]

DLC don't count towards the mod limit on console.

[HeyYou]

 

I should have said "the minority that feels entitled to free mods"

the majority of gamers already have to pay for their extra content as until recently, that's all there was on consoles.

 

I am not saying they will serve C&Ds on F4Edit and F4SE and Nexus, et al, I am saying that with the industry going after free modding and even the use of console commands to cheat in games, once precedents are set other publishers will see how they can use them to their advantages.

Zenimax wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't look at what Take2 and Topware are doing and work out ways to increase their profits.

they could put a stop to free modding at there is nothing we can do to stop them.

we could boycott their games out of protest but seeing that PC makes up such a small percentage of the market and only a small percentage of PC users would actually go that far, it would make no difference to Zenimax.

if every PC user did boycott the next BGS title, the accounting boys will point out the cost of porting to the PC vs zero sales and recommend that they stop bothering with PC ports to save time and money which would be better spent on the console versions.

 

given that PS4 users are desperate for mods that add new quests and content, if Sony are happy with CC mini DLC packs then there is a market twice the size of the PC market that is desperate to pay for new content.

 

but you have to take into account that there is a mod limit which includes DLC as well as the 2GB limit on console mods, it won't take many free mods to stop people from being able to buy CC mini-DLCs.

CC cost Zenimax money so they will want a return on that.

Bethesda.net is a mess, costs them money and for no return.

if you were working for Zenimax, what would you do?

remember that Take2 have set a precedent that could be applied to F4SE and F4Edit and Topware have set a precedent to lock the developer tools and console commands so that they can sell cheat codes for god mode. and every free mod downloaded means a lost sale of a CC mod

 

How about the modders who "Feel entitled" to be paid?

 

Mods are free. They have been free for years. The truth is some modders are extremely butthurt that You-tubers are making a living talking about mods. You know why they make money? Because people find THEM entertaining, not the video of your mod. If anything you should be thankful they give you the exposure.

 

We've already proven that youtube videos do nothing for modders.

 

Why is it everyone EXCEPT the Mod Author can make money off their products? How is that even remotely fair?

 

It appears to me, that you are the one acting all entitled to the fruits of others labors.

[MightyZ0G]

 

I should have said "the minority that feels entitled to free mods"

the majority of gamers already have to pay for their extra content as until recently, that's all there was on consoles.

 

I am not saying they will serve C&Ds on F4Edit and F4SE and Nexus, et al, I am saying that with the industry going after free modding and even the use of console commands to cheat in games, once precedents are set other publishers will see how they can use them to their advantages.

Zenimax wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't look at what Take2 and Topware are doing and work out ways to increase their profits.

they could put a stop to free modding at there is nothing we can do to stop them.

we could boycott their games out of protest but seeing that PC makes up such a small percentage of the market and only a small percentage of PC users would actually go that far, it would make no difference to Zenimax.

if every PC user did boycott the next BGS title, the accounting boys will point out the cost of porting to the PC vs zero sales and recommend that they stop bothering with PC ports to save time and money which would be better spent on the console versions.

 

given that PS4 users are desperate for mods that add new quests and content, if Sony are happy with CC mini DLC packs then there is a market twice the size of the PC market that is desperate to pay for new content.

 

but you have to take into account that there is a mod limit which includes DLC as well as the 2GB limit on console mods, it won't take many free mods to stop people from being able to buy CC mini-DLCs.

CC cost Zenimax money so they will want a return on that.

Bethesda.net is a mess, costs them money and for no return.

if you were working for Zenimax, what would you do?

remember that Take2 have set a precedent that could be applied to F4SE and F4Edit and Topware have set a precedent to lock the developer tools and console commands so that they can sell cheat codes for god mode. and every free mod downloaded means a lost sale of a CC mod

 

How about the modders who "Feel entitled" to be paid?

 

Mods are free. They have been free for years. The truth is some modders are extremely butthurt that You-tubers are making a living talking about mods. You know why they make money? Because people find THEM entertaining, not the video of your mod. If anything you should be thankful they give you the exposure.

 

 

when I was modding I NEVER felt entitled to anything. I NEVER even expected a thank you.

on one occasion I even refused payment for a mesh I made as a request for a mod someone else was making because it was easy and I had fun making it and modding was a hobby not a job.

when I made a mod it was because I had an idea of how I could do something no-one else had done.

my reward was the the sense of accomplishment at creating something.

the positive feedback from the community was a nice bonus, but it was just the cherry on the top, it wasn't the cake.

then some people decided that they should be paid for the time and effort they spend on their hobbies and the community split with discussions turning into arguments and everything we're seeing here.

 

doing something you don't have to do and no-one asked you to do, then expecting payment is no different than those guys with the bucket and sponge who wash your windscreen at traffic lights.

 

in some ways, modders expecting payment for their hobby