Can Paid and Free Mods Coexist?

[Fkemman11]

The battle has been raging for some time now over whether mods should be free or behind a paywall. While I love getting mods for free I can certainly understand some authors wanting financial compensation for their work. I am torn on the issue. So the question is can we have both? Why is there so much animosity towards those wanting to get paid? Is there some unwritten rule somewhere stating mods must be free? Is it a fear that paid mods will mean the end of free ones? Or is it just that the sentiment has always been about sharing with fellow gamers? The fact is that this community is based largely around Beth games. Why is Beth viewed as some evil Ogre for wanting to make a little more money? Is that not what they are in business for? And did they not provide the tools by which most of these mods were made? The only way I see to insure the coexistence of both would be for the modding community to expand its list of games that can be modified with support from their creators. The problem with that right now is that most of the major dev studios do not support modding at all. Maybe what will finally draw more attention to the talented mod authors both here and in waiting is the success of paid modding. A conundrum to be sure. Thoughts?

[Ethreon]

There's no battle where only one side fights itself. Just a bunch of bickering people, most not even making mods or caring to support them, but immediately getting in arms when there's some talks of mod makers getting the possibility of profit.

 

Anyway, yes. Nothing stops anyone from posting their mods for free as much as they want. Why is there this mentality that things can only be THIS WAY or THAT WAY or they fail?

[Unedjis]

I think it's because we're so used to free mods that we don't want to give up that "right" without a fight. Just like any freedom someone gives us, we don't ever want to have to give that up once we have it.

 

But what I fear is that the introduction of paid mods to the existing title that is Skyrim might pave the way for future titles to ONLY allow mods behind a paywall of some kind. Now, of course we'll always find ways to provide and get that stuff for free, but should Bethesda decide to stop supporting mods unless certain stricter (and for them profitable) criteria are met, they would take away what makes their games so great, and they would basically villanize our collective creative genius if we want to provide it for free but they only allow it for some kind of fee. Modding Mass Effect is a nightmare in every way (both for mod authors and users), I don't want to have to go to those troubles with future Elder Scrolls games.

[Fkemman11]

"Even if there was a good way of implementing paid for mods, or a system where all mods remain free of payment but the mod authors are paid (like a YouTube-style ad sharing system, or a voluntary subscription system) there’s still a whole slew of potential issues that get introduced in to modding when significant money enters. We’ve seen some of those issues already; permission issues with mods that use assets from other mods, a reduction of authors releasing “modders resources” (open source resource packages that all modders can make use of), increased resentment, rivalries, drama, bickering and arguing within the mod author community are some of the issues that spring to mind. Irrespective of how paid for modding is introduced, those issues are a serious concern.

I don’t know if there’s a good way of doing it. I do know there’s no way of doing it without fundamentally changing the dynamic of the modding community. Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing depends on how much you liked the “old way”. Personally, I quite liked the old way. But then again, I’m biased." - Robin Scott in an interview from May of 2015

 

Even Nexus site owner and creator Robin Scott is not sure what impact paid modding will have on the modding community. But that does not mean that it will be a completely negative thing. Is it really just greed on the part of Beth and some authors? Also Beth has already stated that people will need portfolios of their previous works when applying for Creation Club. All the work in those portfolios would have to have been free. Effectively this means that both will coexists for some time as Beth will only want experienced authors. Like Ethreon has stated - time will tell where this all goes but I do not see paid modding putting a halt on free mods.....ever, because the decision will always be in the hands of each author.

 

@ Unedjis My thinking is that if this succeeds for Beth -then it might become a model for other dev houses to follow. Having even paid mods for something like MEA would be great with limited support from Bio and EA. But they will never even consider it if there is not money to be made. I have no illusion that this will not all come at a cost. But positive results may offset this down the road as more game devs follow suit. Like I said a paid something is better than nothing at all. More support for modding in general cannot be a bad thing - even if some mods are sold and not always free. Besides official content goes through teams of testers and quality control doesn't it?

[Skagens]

As with any major news, people are freaking out and speculating without even having all the information at hand. The way it has been said the Creation Club is to be handled is miles better than what they tried last time but it's still not, imo, perfect. I posted my opinion in a previous post about this topic, and I'll reply the same as I posted there, with some added sentences. Mods, for me, has always been about the love of said game. It's something done by the community for the community for a better experience and overall enjoyment of the game they love. It's in my opinion something to be shared for all to enjoy, for free. It's not something you expect to make a career out of and it's not something you do as a source of income. There are some really talented people in the community, and the fact they can get paid is not something I'm against, but I would rather they be paid in the form of a donation.

 

This thing their doing now has the potential to be really good. Quality content made by mod makers you know and like. But it might also flop like last time, though I doubt in the same colossal manner. I'm not going to pass judgement on this thing yet since we don't know everything and we don't know if this means "the end of free mods". I'm just going to wait and see how this thing plays out. Keep in mind that Bethesda has said that they will not accept mods that people have already been made. So even if the majority of mod authors disappear from the Nexus, the mods already out there will still be available for free. Only new content will be on the Creation Club. What I'm asking is what exactly can they bring to the table that is new and refreshing enough to spend money on? It seems that there already is a mod for everything. I'm skeptical but hopeful.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Skagens

[Overmind5000]

Hello.

To answer the thread's initial question, I see coexistence to be a thing between Mods and Creation Club stuff, which I will NOT call 'Paid mods', but more like 'Outsourced DLC.' Why Outsourced DLC? Because this program isn't reaching out to mod makers and mod makers only. Third party developers of other games have the option to contribute as well, and Bethesda itself is planning on pitching in content-wise. Now pay attention to the key word I used - OPTION. This program gives you the OPTION to sign up, provided your skills are up to par, to a program that is OPTIONAL, and gives consumers the OPTION to purchase these items. Since Mod developers have the OPTION to not sign up, then there will be those who will still be making free mods, and even if they sign up, there is no guarantee they will be accepted.

I see this whole situation of moddable video games like a burger. You are presented with a pretty good, on-its-own burger with the standard works. Sure there are some who don't want anything that comes standard, like lettuce, but they can decide to not order it. To some, this unmodded burger is delicious in its own way, but it seems to need more. Fortunately for you, you are provided with extra condiments or additives either on the side, in the burger already, or both - Modding, in this analogy - and they are a free item that goes with the burger. Depending on which burger you get, you might say 'Could I get this condiment to go with my burger' or 'Can I omit this layer of lettuce' and be on their merry way. There are some condiments that aren't as good in quality, but they're still free.

 

Then there is the addition of premium waffle fries that costs a small amount of money, but you don't have to order it. If it piques your interest, you can order it if you want. If you don't want it and consider waffle fries the bane of your existence, you can ignore it and enjoy your burger with whatever options you want to use or omit.

Long story short, The burger is the analogy to games, the additives are the analogy to mods and mod resources, and the waffle fries are the "paid mods" in question.

[ZeroKing]

Hello.

 

To answer the thread's initial question, I see coexistence to be a thing between Mods and Creation Club stuff, which I will NOT call 'Paid mods', but more like 'Outsourced DLC.' Why Outsourced DLC? Because this program isn't reaching out to mod makers and mod makers only. Third party developers of other games have the option to contribute as well, and Bethesda itself is planning on pitching in content-wise. Now pay attention to the key word I used - OPTION. This program gives you the OPTION to sign up, provided your skills are up to par, to a program that is OPTIONAL, and gives consumers the OPTION to purchase these items. Since Mod developers have the OPTION to not sign up, then there will be those who will still be making free mods, and even if they sign up, there is no guarantee they will be accepted.

 

I see this whole situation of moddable video games like a burger. You are presented with a pretty good, on-its-own burger with the standard works. Sure there are some who don't want anything that comes standard, like lettuce, but they can decide to not order it. To some, this unmodded burger is delicious in its own way, but it seems to need more. Fortunately for you, you are provided with extra condiments or additives either on the side, in the burger already, or both - Modding, in this analogy - and they are a free item that goes with the burger. Depending on which burger you get, you might say 'Could I get this condiment to go with my burger' or 'Can I omit this layer of lettuce' and be on their merry way. There are some condiments that aren't as good in quality, but they're still free.

 

Then there is the addition of premium waffle fries that costs a small amount of money, but you don't have to order it. If it piques your interest, you can order it if you want. If you don't want it and consider waffle fries the bane of your existence, you can ignore it and enjoy your burger with whatever options you want to use or omit.

 

Long story short, The burger is the analogy to games, the additives are the analogy to mods and mod resources, and the waffle fries are the "paid mods" in question.

 

Finally, someone gets it, food analogy a bonus.

 

Though now, I'm quite hungry.

[Rabbit1251]

Modding is a hobby and not a business. When people started making mods for their games it was a hobby. When the Nexus was formed it provided a convenient website to upload and freely share your creations and to connect with other modders.

 

Do not look for modders to make millions of dollars making mods and selling them online. The last time paid modding happened crooks were pilfering the modders hard work and uploading them to the Pirate websites. No winners there. There was a lot of bad feeling over that that remains to this day. This could very well be the end of the hobby.

 

 

The Rabbit

[greentea101]

I haven't read the other replies, but my own objection against paid modding stems from my belief that a free ecosystem is healthier for the community (including end-users), because authors freely sharing assets and knowledge is more of a benefit for the system as a whole than said authors trying to make modding into a job. Also, the co-existence of a parallel marketplace of paid mods can be damaging to the free ecosystem if not administered and curated properly (for example, money incentivizes people to steal assets from free mods to make a buck, which in turn aggravates authors of free mods and causes them to pull their mods and stop modding altogether).

 

That being said, what Bethesda is trying to do now is not paid modding. In this context, these people are not modders, they are subcontractors working for Bethesda to create content for them.

[needsfoodbadly]

Can Paid and Free Mods Coexist?

 

They already do actually. Many games that are moddable and also encourage modding (including games on Nexus) also feature their own cash shops/marketplaces/etc. and also allow people to submit their own skins, items and other game content and get paid if they're accepted. In fact, numerous Valve games do this already, CSGO, Team Fortress 2 and Dota. And it's not just Valve but many other game companies as well.

 

The line that I've heard a lot of people on numerous forums raving about how Bethesda's CC is going to destroy the pc modding community is absolutely ridiculous and the majority of these people seem to be under the false impression that anybody, everybody and their uncle who slaps a 2-bit texture on anything is going to get accepted into Bethesda's content creator program and that it will be the exact same thing as the paid workshop fiasco.