The Creation Club - How to make it helpful to the Modding community, not destroy it

[Transient3292]

@Reneer, @PoorlyAged, @HayYou and many others, Just walk away! step back from the gloom and doom.

Â

You know what?Â

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I looked out my window today and shockingly enough, the sky was not falling!Â

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This argument is not worth your breath or the calories it takes you to type your responses.

Â

Let them wallow in their perceived end of the world scenarios.Â

wallowing in end of the world scenarios? hate to say it but you aren't any more certain than the people arguing with you. and some of us are just discussing opinions on what we thing may or may not end up happening. I could get all condescending and say people are naive, but that would be stupid because I have no idea what will happen for sure.

[PoorlyAged]

 

@Reneer, @PoorlyAged, @HayYou and many others, Just walk away! step back from the gloom and doom.

Â

You know what?Â

Â

I looked out my window today and shockingly enough, the sky was not falling!Â

Â

This argument is not worth your breath or the calories it takes you to type your responses.

Â

Let them wallow in their perceived end of the world scenarios.Â

wallowing in end of the world scenarios? hate to say it but you aren't any more certain than the people arguing with you. and some of us are just discussing opinions on what we thing may or may not end up happening. I could get all condescending and say people are naive, but that would be stupid because I have no idea what will happen for sure.

 

 

However, if people took the time to actually think they would realize that some of the options are more realistic and rational than others.

 

The "creation club gonna kill free modding" crowd do not look at anything but the "Bethesda wanna make money", the "Bethesda gonna stop letting people use the CK" and the "Bethesda gonna squash other modding tools" option. They refuse to see any alternative that would also serve Bethesda's interests. All of these options are of the nose and face variety and have only short term gains.

 

Whereas the "Bethesda is going to keep free mods" folks have some rational basis for their option. Statements by Todd Howard which indicate there will be free mods forever (E3 2015 Fallout 4 announcement). The Creation Club will wither and die without new blood in the pipeline. A small fraction of mod authors will get into the Creation Club, the rest will still be out here making mods. The resume which must be submitted to join the Creation Club requires samples of existing work and existing work cannot happen without the ability to make mods. And finally, Todd Howard told us all that free mods sell games (E3 2015 Fallout 4 announcement). All of these have long term benefits to Bethesda.

 

So yeah, nobody knows for sure. Hell, Zenimax could sell Bethesda to Nintendo tomorrow. Anything is possible, but precious little is probable. So some options have a higher probability of becoming reality than others, and the doom and gloom options come up wanting.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

 

@Reneer, @PoorlyAged, @HayYou and many others, Just walk away! step back from the gloom and doom.

Â

You know what?Â

Â

I looked out my window today and shockingly enough, the sky was not falling!Â

Â

This argument is not worth your breath or the calories it takes you to type your responses.

Â

Let them wallow in their perceived end of the world scenarios.Â

wallowing in end of the world scenarios? hate to say it but you aren't any more certain than the people arguing with you. and some of us are just discussing opinions on what we thing may or may not end up happening. I could get all condescending and say people are naive, but that would be stupid because I have no idea what will happen for sure.

 

 

However, if people took the time to actually think they would realize that some of the options are more realistic and rational than others.

 

The "creation club gonna kill free modding" crowd do not look at anything but the "Bethesda wanna make money", the "Bethesda gonna stop letting people use the CK" and the "Bethesda gonna squash other modding tools" option. They refuse to see any alternative that would also serve Bethesda's interests. All of these options are of the nose and face variety and have only short term gains.

 

Whereas the "Bethesda is going to keep free mods" folks have some rational basis for their option. Statements by Todd Howard which indicate there will be free mods forever (E3 2015 Fallout 4 announcement). The Creation Club will wither and die without new blood in the pipeline. A small fraction of mod authors will get into the Creation Club, the rest will still be out here making mods. The resume which must be submitted to join the Creation Club requires samples of existing work and existing work cannot happen without the ability to make mods. And finally, Todd Howard told us all that free mods sell games (E3 2015 Fallout 4 announcement). All of these have long term benefits to Bethesda.

 

So yeah, nobody knows for sure. Hell, Zenimax could sell Bethesda to Nintendo tomorrow. Anything is possible, but precious little is probable. So some options have a higher probability of becoming reality than others, and the doom and gloom options come up wanting.

 

 

Its not up to Todd Howard. Sorry to ruin your fanboy crush, but he is a creative director. That's it. The money guys steer the ship.

[Reneer]

Its not up to Todd Howard. Sorry to ruin your fanboy crush, but he is a creative director. That's it. The money guys steer the ship.

The money guys are generally looking long-term, not short-term. Thus, they will be thinking about how to keep the enterprise solvent over the years, rather than making quick gains in the short-term that damage their long-term gains (i.e. killing off free modding which would be a short-term gain versus allowing free modding to continue, which would benefit them more in the long-term). Keeping a supply of talent to continuously add new blood into the Creation Club is one aspect of the long-term goal - there is only so much creativity in a fixed number of Creation Club members.

[Transient3292]

 

Its not up to Todd Howard. Sorry to ruin your fanboy crush, but he is a creative director. That's it. The money guys steer the ship.

The money guys are generally looking long-term, not short-term. Thus, they will be thinking about how to keep the enterprise solvent over the years, rather than making quick gains in the short-term that damage their long-term gains (i.e. killing off free modding which would be a short-term gain versus allowing free modding to continue, which would benefit them more in the long-term). Keeping a supply of talent to continuously add new blood into the Creation Club is one aspect of the long-term goal - there is only so much creativity in a fixed number of Creation Club members.

I understand that you can't see it any other way than how you see it, but you're not " more right than the other guys" it's what YOU think is more profitable. and you're saying that "they're looking at the long term" is what you consider the better option. For all you know, the zenimax bosses could very well have the idea "milk all we can for these next few years".you have no idea what they actually think is the better long term plan. it's just opinions. you can think that the people on the opposing side of the discussion are wrong all you want, it doesn't make your opinion the most logical one. And I'm not saying that zenimax is for sure saying that, but it's certainly a possibility

[Reneer]

I understand that you can't see it any other way than how you see it, but you're not " more right than the other guys" it's what YOU think is more profitable. and you're saying that "they're looking at the long term" is what you consider the better option. For all you know, the zenimax bosses could very well have the idea "milk all we can for these next few years".you have no idea what they actually think is the better long term plan. it's just opinions. you can think that the people on the opposing side of the discussion are wrong all you want, it doesn't make your opinion the most logical one. And I'm not saying that zenimax is for sure saying that, but it's certainly a possibility

That's why I used the word "generally", as in, generally, this is what businesses do. If the suits at ZeniMax want to pump and dump, that's their stupid plan. But, as you said, neither you nor I know what they are thinking. Except for MrJoseCuervo, who apparently has a man on the inside :tongue:.

 

And, amazingly enough, I never said I was "more right" than anyone else. All I have on my side is the fact that ZeniMax has owned Bethesda and other such companies since 1999 and are unlikely to do anything "short term".

Edited June 30, 2017 by Reneer

[PoorlyAged]

 

 

 

However, if people took the time to actually think they would realize that some of the options are more realistic and rational than others.

 

The "creation club gonna kill free modding" crowd do not look at anything but the "Bethesda wanna make money", the "Bethesda gonna stop letting people use the CK" and the "Bethesda gonna squash other modding tools" option. They refuse to see any alternative that would also serve Bethesda's interests. All of these options are of the nose and face variety and have only short term gains.

 

Whereas the "Bethesda is going to keep free mods" folks have some rational basis for their option. Statements by Todd Howard which indicate there will be free mods forever (E3 2015 Fallout 4 announcement). The Creation Club will wither and die without new blood in the pipeline. A small fraction of mod authors will get into the Creation Club, the rest will still be out here making mods. The resume which must be submitted to join the Creation Club requires samples of existing work and existing work cannot happen without the ability to make mods. And finally, Todd Howard told us all that free mods sell games (E3 2015 Fallout 4 announcement). All of these have long term benefits to Bethesda.

 

So yeah, nobody knows for sure. Hell, Zenimax could sell Bethesda to Nintendo tomorrow. Anything is possible, but precious little is probable. So some options have a higher probability of becoming reality than others, and the doom and gloom options come up wanting.

 

 

Its not up to Todd Howard. Sorry to ruin your fanboy crush, but he is a creative director. That's it. The money guys steer the ship.

 

 

This is what I mean by not thinking. MrJoseCuervo uses one name out of context to dismiss the entire comment. Sorry to take a pin to your over inflated ego, but Todd Howard could not say the things he did if the money guys didn't allow it? Or is that little bit of business knowledge beyond MrJoseCuervo's comprehension?

 

But MrJoseCuervo's comment was a success. It has distracted the discussion away from legitimate commentary and moved the discussion onto a side track of idiocy. Which is his intent.

[MightyZ0G]

Bethesda could have handled this much better.

if they had simply put an advert out for freelance 3D modelers, texture artists, level designers, etc, they could have had the same end result of new blood creating DLC and we would have loved them for it. they didn't have to make a big announcement that they would get mod makers to work with them to create mini DLCs paid for with micro transactions.

they caused confusion by suggesting that the cream of the modding community would be those responsible for the new DLC and drawing connections with paid mods.

with this happening at the same time as other software publishers actively preventing people from modding their games or even using the developer's console to cheat, it is not unreasonable to wonder if Bethesda will follow suit, especially when they are doing things that may affect the modding scene.

 

there is a lot to be said for the pessimistic outlook and a bit of doom and gloom.

if you are prepared for it to be as bad as it could possibly be then pretty much any result is going to be better than you imagined and therefore easier to cope.

[Transient3292]

 

I understand that you can't see it any other way than how you see it, but you're not " more right than the other guys" it's what YOU think is more profitable. and you're saying that "they're looking at the long term" is what you consider the better option. For all you know, the zenimax bosses could very well have the idea "milk all we can for these next few years".you have no idea what they actually think is the better long term plan. it's just opinions. you can think that the people on the opposing side of the discussion are wrong all you want, it doesn't make your opinion the most logical one. And I'm not saying that zenimax is for sure saying that, but it's certainly a possibility

That's why I used the word "generally", as in, generally, this is what businesses do. If the suits at ZeniMax want to pump and dump, that's their stupid plan. But, as you said, neither you nor I know what they are thinking. Except for MrJoseCuervo, who apparently has a man on the inside :tongue:.

ÃÂ

And, amazingly enough, I never said I was "more right" than anyone else. All I have on my side is the fact that ZeniMax has owned Bethesda and other such companies since 1999 and are unlikely to do anything "short term".

Both sides of the fence have some people "yelling" louder than others for sure, I might very quoted the wrong comments.

 

@poorly aged, you're quoting todd howard from 2015, Noone is ignoring what has been said, but holding their comments word for word is just as much naive as we are being paranpid. one can argue either or. all I am saying is that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that things change over time. I'm sure they intended for mods to be free forever, it doesn't mean circumstances won't change.

 

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. when I see your arguments stated as if anything else is proposterous, I csnt help but want to point out the opposite points. I've stated logical points as to how the CC could be used with their current developers and recent mod authors so that the mod pool drying up could be irrelevant. It could be said that you're the one refusing to think about anything other than what you want to be true.

 

believe it or not I actually felt a little better after seeing pete hines actual interview. I want to believe that they have the best intentions, but overall I am a pessimist when it comes to a large company with lots of money being spent.

 

I'm going to try to bow out of this, Noone is going to convince anyone else their way of thinking, however logical or illogical. some good points have been made by all sides.

Edited June 30, 2017 by wanderer3292

[PoorlyAged]

I reference the comments by Todd Howard because there has been so stated change of direction specifically mentioned or even hinted at, so I consider these comments still in effect. I do this because to do otherwise makes every other statement from Bethesda and Zenimax suspect. IE, if I cannot believe one statement, how can I believe any statement? That way lies insanity.