3ds Max 2012 and Skyrim

[SkjoldBjorn]

I had my shot at 3ds max, the fact that i need modifiers to work at simple things threw me off and the bug where you get extra verts also was rather annoying. If you want something that will always work if you got problems, blender 2.49 is something i would recommend. Blender 2.6 is also backward compatible, so you can work with newer versions of it, but you need to use 2.49 for import/export. I have morphed about 20 armor models in blender and i have not had any problems with extra verts as long as i do not do anything else but moving the verts..soft selection on (in blender it's named proportional edit) and go nuts.

 

If 3ds max was less hassle i would have used it, it got more functions that would be nice to use, but im thinking of using Maya, i don't like the way 3ds max forces you to add modifiers just for simple things and to be honest blender can switch between edit and object mode by pressing tab, making the effectiveness of modeling a lot quicker for me. Those who are used to 3ds max and it's layout probably do it just as quick.

 

The only downside with blender is the workload you have in nifskope, but as soon as you got that in the fingertips it will become second nature. you have to manually copy/paste BSLightingShaderProperty from a vanilla mesh and rename any partitions under the BSdismembermentSkinInstance.

other than that it's just the same as any other import/export process. And of course i forgot nurbs, nurbs can be a pain to work with in blender compared to Maya for example.

[theru]

i prefer max 2010 it works smootly overall and correct havok tools for skyrim 2010.2.0 ,work as a charm even niftools 3.7.1 works exporting kf, tested max 2012 but it crashes constantly -.-and cant export a single kf made for skyrim to convert Edited February 29, 2012 by theru

[WorldShaperDragon]

I fixed the extra verts bug: Just add a smooth modifier with smooth group 2, AND make sure that the "Weld verts" in the exporter is set to 0 (it stupidly keeps resetting to .01) [This is contrary to a lot of posts I've found, which said use smooth XOR weld verts 0]

 

I can't stand blender, the UI is painful for me, and way to keyboard intensive. Plus normally I use max for making & rendering sprites of spacecraft for games like Transcendence or Naev, as opposed to making meshes for use directly in game.

[Ghogiel]

Just exported a mesh & compared in nifskope: looks like I'm still getting phantom vertices.

explain phantom vertices? if you mean the vert count is actually the number of verts on the mesh plus all the duplicated ones at UV seams then that is the correct vertex count.

[WorldShaperDragon]

Just exported a mesh & compared in nifskope: looks like I'm still getting phantom vertices.

explain phantom vertices? if you mean the vert count is actually the number of verts on the mesh plus all the duplicated ones at UV seams then that is the correct vertex count.

Right - IIRC, thats where some extra data gets stored... but they were never there in the original model, and they also entirely throw off the vertex ordering, making morphs explode the mesh. However, I managed to fix it by adding a smooth w/ group 2 & setting the export vertex weld to 0 (Which irritatingly keeps setting itself to 0.01)

[jimhsu]

Sorry, really hate Max 2012. Strange because Max 2010 and 2011 were perfectly fine.

 

- SkinUtilities keeps crashing just after exporting skin data from a mesh ... any mesh.

- UV editor keeps crashing, and is missing key features (i.e. directional scaling)

- Random viewport rendering errors (but have to say the new Viewport render is fancy though)

- Random miscellaneous crashes. True 2010 and 2011 also randomly crash, hence crazy saving, but 2012 crashes even more.

 

For the random crashing with modifiers above BSDismember - again, 2010 and 2011 handled this perfectly fine (tried with UV unwrap, edit normals, etc). Obviously putting Edit Poly above a Skin modifier will cause "Bad Things to Happen", so I don't do that.

 

Sorry, just can't use it.

Edited March 1, 2012 by jimhsu

[WorldShaperDragon]

I find the crashes I get are always specific to certain files I import, and always to performing specific actions; usually because of something not immediately apparent yet still incorrect about the file's format.

[Ghogiel]

Just exported a mesh & compared in nifskope: looks like I'm still getting phantom vertices.

explain phantom vertices? if you mean the vert count is actually the number of verts on the mesh plus all the duplicated ones at UV seams then that is the correct vertex count.

Right - IIRC, thats where some extra data gets stored... but they were never there in the original model, and they also entirely throw off the vertex ordering, making morphs explode the mesh. However, I managed to fix it by adding a smooth w/ group 2 & setting the export vertex weld to 0 (Which irritatingly keeps setting itself to 0.01)

the UV splits are there on the vanilla model as well. and those verts are counted in the vertices index in the nif. Seeing as you fixed it with a smoothing modifier suggests the error is in your smoothing groups, have you tried actually setting the smoothing groups in the editable poly modifier instead of adding an extra modifier to the stack? It seems the extra verts are being created because you are some how splitting edges on the mesh due to some smooth groups, and not the extra verts on the UV, which are created for every nif because there is only one vertex array (including the duplicated verts for the UV seams), and this I think is used for the UV set list as well.

 

If you can clear the smoothing groups in the editable poly and add it there it should work fine, try it next time, if you can narrow it down to that then I reckon the smoothing groups are set by the importer in a particular way which may not be how they are exported. I know that MOST of the armor appears to import correctly in this regard, how every the vanilla head certainly does not. Just to know what it actually IS going on would be nice you know.

 

Sorry, really hate Max 2012. Strange because Max 2010 and 2011 were perfectly fine.

 

- SkinUtilities keeps crashing just after exporting skin data from a mesh ... any mesh.

- UV editor keeps crashing, and is missing key features (i.e. directional scaling)

- Random viewport rendering errors (but have to say the new Viewport render is fancy though)

- Random miscellaneous crashes. True 2010 and 2011 also randomly crash, hence crazy saving, but 2012 crashes even more.

 

For the random crashing with modifiers above BSDismember - again, 2010 and 2011 handled this perfectly fine (tried with UV unwrap, edit normals, etc). Obviously putting Edit Poly above a Skin modifier will cause "Bad Things to Happen", so I don't do that.

 

Sorry, just can't use it.

-does this happen with editable poly meshes?

-I personally hate the changes to Unwrap UVW, in terms of UI and what not, but no directional scaling? eh?

-ati card?

-unlucky

[WorldShaperDragon]

Ok, I'll mess around with those settings when I do my next exports of the head later today. though whatever was splitting the edges wasn't me, but rather something in max or the importer, because I could just import & then immediately export a model, and it would have the error [This is regardless of exporter settings, though the weld verts option would merely modify the quantity of extra verts.].

[Ghogiel]

You do realise that when you import a nif, you are smoothing it. if you turn off smoothing on the import dialogue it'll be all hard edges.

 

I think what happens is that when that smoothing is done, the face angle difference between the _1 and _0 might be throwing out a difference. Hence why editing the smoothing groups fixes the issue, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter if done in a modifier or in an editable poly...

 

edit: if I import the default male body I actually have 2 groups applied. which shouldn't be I dont think. There are 2 little tris in the armpit that are hard edged.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Ghogiel