Idle thought: What might the world be like in CHINA?

[CaptainPatch]

Maybe this subject has been raised elsewhere. I admit, I really didn't look. But recently I got to thinking: Approaching nuclear Armageddon just as knowingly as the USA, UNDOUBTEDLY the Chinese Powers That Be would have been just as concerned about the post-Apocalypse world as the USA was, and preserving "the Chinese way of Life." HOWEVER, would any Chinese community-sized bunker system have been just as self-destructive as the Vault-tec social experimentation programs? That is, I suspect that any Chinese system would have made a VERY serious effort to safeguard not only the Chinese Powers That Be, but also potentially TENS OF MILLIONS of Chinese Communists. And if that was indeed the case, while we can see just what the world looked like when the Vaults started to disgorge the paltry few Vault-dwellers into Post-Apocalyptia, the Chinese would have had a MASSIVE Reconstruction workforce resurface as soon as conditions topside became survivable.

 

And those (potentially) millions of Red Chinese would have had a serious bone to pick with those Imperialist Yankee running dogs that started the nuclear exchange that devastated the world. (Per Red Chinese propaganda.) PLUS more than likely a one-century head start on Reconstruction. PLUS a raging paranoia about just what kind of threat any surviving American government would be.

 

So I'm wondering: Just how long before a LARGE Red Chinese Army arrives to finish off the remnants of the USA?

[HeyYou]

That would make an interesting premise for the next installation. (Fallout 5)

 

Going by today's weapons count though..... The US has VASTLY more weapons than the Chinese. So, it's entirely possible the Chinese mainland took much more serious damage than did the US. So, a lot would depend on just how prepared the Chinese were, to survive a nuclear war. You can bet the top level folks in government had their bunkers to retreat to, but, what percentage of the population would as well?

[dragonslayer2k12]

I don't think there was any mention of vaults in china and I kinda doubt there would be. What I find strange is why drop troops into the USA or china when nuclear bombs are falling all over the place? Most of those troops would be dead not long after they arrived and when playing these games since fallout 3 I always thought the whole bombs thing was BAM! and it was over but no there was all kinds of stuff going on right after the bombs fell which is just strange and kinda impossible to believe. We know that the idea of missile defense was used in new vegas by mr house so it is conceivable that the chinese or even the US would have used it elsewhere but since the goal of the enclave and vaultec was to wipe out everyone outside of the vaults I doubt the US had any other missile defense besides mr house. The chinese would have survived anywhere their guberment didn't drop bombs in the US and it could be said they had moved at least some portion of their civilian population to rural middle of nowhere areas before the war started so they where not anywhere near military targets. Maybe some people fled into caves and mountain areas too. When you see some chinese npc in a fallout game you have to think they are probably descendants of whoever was left over and managed to survive after the war was over.

[CaptainPatch]

1) I don't think there was any mention of vaults in china and I kinda doubt there would be.

2) What I find strange is why drop troops into the USA or china when nuclear bombs are falling all over the place? Most of those troops would be dead not long after they arrived and when playing these games since fallout 3 I always thought the whole bombs thing was BAM! and it was over but no there was all kinds of stuff going on right after the bombs fell which is just strange and kinda impossible to believe.

3) We know that the idea of missile defense was used in new vegas by mr house so it is conceivable that the chinese or even the US would have used it elsewhere but since

4) the goal of the enclave and vaultec was to wipe out everyone outside of the vaults I doubt the US had any other missile defense besides mr house. The chinese would have survived anywhere their guberment didn't drop bombs in the US

5) and it could be said they had moved at least some portion of their civilian population to rural middle of nowhere areas before the war started so they where not anywhere near military targets. Maybe some people fled into caves and mountain areas too. When you see some chinese npc in a fallout game you have to think they are probably descendants of whoever was left over and managed to survive after the war was over.

Lots to contemplate here.

 

1) As mentioned elsewhere, undoubtedly, Top Management would have made provisions for themselves to survive a nuclear exchange. And since the mindset of Management is to manage, I doubt they were thinking that after emerging they would willingly do manual labor, like Egyptian Pharaohs, they would also keep LOTS of workers around to do all the sweaty stuff. And LOTS of soldiers to give Management the muscle it needs to stay in their Management positions.

 

2) I get the impression that in this alternate Reality, nuclear powers were also relying on the MAD doctrine to keep everyone from pushing any buttons that couldn't be unpushed. (And a certainty that "If they push their button, rest assured we WILL be pushing ours!") Which is why the entire war in Alaska was fought conventionally. And right up until Who-knows-who pushed that first button, ongoing military campaigns involved conventional weaponry. That would include the Chines trying to do a Red Dawn scenario. As for pockets of enemy soldiers to be found scattered about, I find it doubtful that the Chinese would have targeted any nukes anywhere near where they had any noteworthy concentration of Chinese forces. And, two hundred years later, we would indeed see descendants five generations or more from the original Chinese invaders.

 

3) Throughout History, advances in Offense would inevitably be followed by advances in Defense. It stands to reason that there would be some kind of ABM systems in place as the war in 2077 was more than a century after the advent of the ICBM. Nuclear detonations MUST be done in a VERY precise manner, or else it's "What happened to my Earth-shattering KABOOM?" Simply breaking up an incoming missile should be enough to thwart that detonation sequence. So, in effect, the devastation we see in FO is from what small percentage of missile got through. Which suggests some really LARGE nuclear stockpiles on both sides.

 

4) See #3. But I agree with the presence of Chinese descendants out in the middle of nowhere.

 

5) At a population of >ONE BILLION, the Chinese really didn't need to move peasants out into rural areas; the peasants were already there.

 

Additional point: Someone mentioned the nuke numbers for the Real World. (Which is USA -- @6200, Red China @270.) HOWEVER, in the prologue back History, it appears that rather than a post-WW2 face-off between USA and USSR, it was more of a face-off with Red China. So it would be likely that it would have been Red China that got sucked into the arms race that was with the USSR in our Reality. (Which is Today with Russia sitting on @7,000 nukes.) [And those numbers are AFTER the nuclear disarmament treaties kicked. Pre-SALT the respective stockpiles were significantly larger.]

[Moksha8088]

You must factor in the 1950's scheme of things in this scenario. The fleet of sampans would need poles long enough to reach the bottom of the Mariana Trench in order to have enough propulsion to cross the Pacific Ocean. Plus there is the matter of hauling all of Chairman Mao's Little Red Books to sufficiently instruct the remaining residents of the wasteland.

[CaptainPatch]

You must factor in the 1950's scheme of things in this scenario. The fleet of sampans would need poles long enough to reach the bottom of the Mariana Trench in order to have enough propulsion to cross the Pacific Ocean. Plus there is the matter of hauling all of Chairman Mao's Little Red Books to sufficiently instruct the remaining residents of the wasteland.

However, you are thinking of the historical perspective in THIS Reality. In the FO timeline, Red China successfully invaded Alaska. And later still, just before nukes went off, Red China also successfully blanketed the continental USA with paratroopers whose descendants crop up all over North America.

[pra]

Hm, interesting thoughts.

 

No idea what interpretation of communism they have in Fallout, though, but I doubt something like Vault-Tec could have existed there. That is, the government outsourcing shelter construction to a private corporation which was able to add all sorts of weird experiments in there would be very unlikely. Private companies shouldn't even exist in communism, but RL China doesn't seem to mind much.

 

On the other hand, the communist government could very much do whatever it wanted. Some (mostly agricultural) experiments were somewhat common in soviet russia, so I could imagine the chinese doing similar stuff.

Idea: the chinese government ordered a lot of shelters, but since nobody knew if people in there would actually survive, each was built slightly different, with a different idea (but still directed towards long-term survival), in the hope that at least one would work. So, here it would be less "just throw in some people with some weird stuff and see what happens", and more like "the end justifies the means". For example, make a "vault" where everyone has to make two children before turning 30 and then to die and be processed into food.

But that's just for the common folks. High-ranking party members would get none of this. They would get the best equipment, too, which might actually survive for 200 years.

 

tl;dr no "evil" corporation which abuses the shelters for illegal experiments, it's the government itself doing them "for the greater good"

 

On the outside, the survivors could turn back to feudalism, with several people declaring themselves emperor and fighting each other and especially the communists.

[drach]

none of you seem to have any actual experience with communism, it's a cancer that needs no "evil corporations"

it's more twisted and evil then all western badguys combined, Hitler was a saint in comparison to what communism did...

they'd rather execute all civilian population then protect them, USSR starved peoples to death by millions per year and you are blabing about shelters...

 

sorry, I'm gonna shut up now and go back to the subject

 

to surmise:

it's either smoldering husk of a continent

or

something in between the glow and necropolis from previous Fallout games given US nukes did not cover all of the land

 

and since in fallout world US was the loosing side in the war, they probably acted first and nuked most of the china in alphastrike giving reds

not much of a retaliation option, hence most of US is still standing being only slightly bombarded

[kingwilfre16]

and since in fallout world US was the loosing side in the war, they probably acted first and nuked most of the china in alphastrike giving reds

not much of a retaliation option, hence most of US is still standing being only slightly bombarded

 

 

USA was winning and managed to surround Bejing

[pra]

none of you seem to have any actual experience with communism, it's a cancer that needs no "evil corporations"

it's more twisted and evil then all western badguys combined, Hitler was a saint in comparison to what communism did...

they'd rather execute all civilian population then protect them, USSR starved peoples to death by millions per year and you are blabing about shelters...

 

sorry, I'm gonna shut up now and go back to the subject

 

to surmise:

it's either smoldering husk of a continent

or

something in between the glow and necropolis from previous Fallout games given US nukes did not cover all of the land

 

and since in fallout world US was the loosing side in the war, they probably acted first and nuked most of the china in alphastrike giving reds

not much of a retaliation option, hence most of US is still standing being only slightly bombarded

Yes, and they also raped bibles, ate babies, and wiped their asses with the american flag.

 

You probably shouldn't take 'murican cold war propaganda at face value, just saying...

 

 

 

That said, at least one those famous starvations was exactly one of those governmental experiments. Or rather, the attempt to use a specific ideology instead of actual science in order to increase food production.