Morality of God

[Peregrine]

Note: The debate is about the morality of God, not of people following the religion. For purposes of this debate, God's actions as presented in the bible are true events.

____________________________________________________

 

Let's assume that god really exists and that he is the only god (as it says in the bible). If this true, doesn't he have a right to be angry at anyone who worships something different than him?

 

No. Killing someone for having the "wrong" belief is wrong. The God in your bible has a massive ego problem. Under the laws of any civilized society God would be found guilty of murder.

 

He says that he is holy and just.

 

By his own definition. I could kill a million people and say the same about myself, but that wouldn't make it true.

 

There is nothing just or holy about sacrificing innocent children to some blood thirsty god. Now if I was god and someone sacrificed a child, that I have created, to a piece of stone, I would be angry too. And sacrificing children was what the Canaanites did (and later on the Israelites)

 

That's one case. Now explain the rest.

 

Still assuming that god exists and that he is angry because someone doesn't pay him the respect he deserves, why then does god wait about fourhundred years until he punishes the wrong-doers? (About fourhundred years passed between where god promised Abraham the land of Canaan and until it was conquered by the Israelites). Is it because he wants to give those Canaanites a chance?

 

Because God is evil. There are two possiblities here:

1) God, despite his infinite power, did nothing to stop evil for 400 years.

2) God punished innocent people for crimes their ancestors committed.

In either case, God's actions are evil by the standard of any civlized society.

 

This you can read in Genesis chapter 15, verse 16. It is a passage where god talks to Abraham. He tells Abraham that his descendants will be slaves and servants in a foreign country for fourhundred years, then they will return. And as you can see in this verse, he does this because he wants to give the Amorites (another word for Canaanites) a chance to turn away from their evil ways.

 

Thanks for proving my point. God has the power to create the universe, but chooses not to do anything immediately. Instead, he punishes even more people so his distorted sense of "justice" can be satisfied.

 

God even condemns his own people (the Hebrews) to slavery so that the Canaanites have a chance! Isn't this mercy?

 

No, it's cruelty. To the Hebrews, who have to suffer because God won't get involved immediately, and to the victims of the Canaanites. Why is death the only solution? Do you seriously claim that the God who created the universe couldn't simply change things? Or perhaps God's sense of justice is so distorted that he wanted evil to exist?

 

Yes, god orders the Hebrews to kill the Canaanites, but only after he has given the Canaanites a chance to turn around and after he sacrificed his own people, condemned them to fourhundred years of slavery.

 

So God only adds to the destruction. Wonderful person, isn't he....

 

In which religion you can find that god himselfs steps down and is killed by humans, in order to save every human being? I don't know anything similar as merciful anywhere. One man sacrifices his life in order to save billions. You don't have to believe in it, Peregrin, but you can't deny that giving ones life in order to save the life of someone you love is the highest way of showing love to someone else and is pure mercy.

 

So let me get this right... God sent himself down to earth to save people from his own wrath. And the only way he could stop himself from destroying humanity was to sacrifice himself. And he did all this out of love.

 

Where is basic sanity in all this? God either has the most distorted sense of justice I've ever heard of, or he is insane. That's not mercy, that's madness.

 

Yes, a lot of people are killed by the command of god in the bible. But never without giving them a chance. Sometimes hard measures have to be taken in order to fight evil in our world. Innocent (or perhaps not so innocent people) will always die and suffer, but in the end the majority will be safed. God could have just said "These humans are all evil, I just kill them and get rid of the problem". But he didn't. He sacrificed himself to save us.

 

FROM HIS OWN WRATH! God sacrificed himself to save us from his own vengeance! Any sane God would simply decide not to destroy us. Or have created us in a way that evil wouldn't happen to begin with. Or change evil actions in some other way.

 

God has infinite power according to your religion, but he chooses death and destruction as his only solution to problems. This is clear evil.

 

And don't forget: Also in LotR a lot of (sometimes) innocent people have to die in order to save the world. When you can see the point in what Tolkien has written, it shouldn't be a problem to see what is meant in the bible. In fact there are many paralells between the work of Tolkien and the bible. Probably because he was a Catholic.

 

There's a big difference. People die to save the world from someone else's actions. That's a heroic act worthy of respect. God sacrifices himself to save the world from his own justice, or from the consequences of his own flawed creation. That doesn't deserve respect!

 

But least accept the fact that what is written in the bible isn't merciless.

 

Yes it is. By the laws of any civlized society, God would have been found guilty of countless crimes.

[hundinman]

Hello everyone. My last debate that I made is the one entitled: religion.

 

Peregrine believes that people have strayed from the subject of What religion the members are by starting sub-debates about "God's" morality.

I believe that Pergrine is right about the straying from the subject even though we both contributed to it.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, here is your chance to post what you think of God's morality. If you posted it in the Religion debate post it again here.

 

Thank you.

[Breton Thief Oriana]

God probably started as a seperate entity, being as he wanted himself. but, all god is now is a reflection of us. think about how it was in Greek/Roman mythology: all the gods/goddesses there had humanlike qualities.

 

however, without evil, there would be no purpose for good. everything would be boring. as it is, everything is boring now. and we arent just puppets of god so that he can control us to do things. and also, any god who creates has to be mad. only people who ARENT crazy can enjoy their own company. so then, perigrine, god made us because he is insane, didnt control us because we as a race are insane, and was happy with it but also wasnt because of the evil he created which drove him crazy. he couldnt get rid of it, so he lets us take care of the evil ourselves. its a mad, mad world up there, and just as bad up here, but at least he promises one thing: his sharing in his kingdom(If it exists). just take that he did all that he did out of love, a practice known as 'faith'. not that i have much faith myself, but if you question it, you loose all of it. and then the god worshiping cults come after you at four in the morning with their "bibles" and their "Crosses". ever wonder why the christians worship crosses if they KILLED jesus? its crazy! "We christians like this; it killed our messiah, and therefore is good." but, then again, im going off topic huh? so, i guess ill stop. be very careful not to piss off the fanatics.

[Darnoc]

I think Peregrin, you don't really get the point. God can not interfere in such a direct way you propose he should (or you think he would if he really was god). He could easily step down and punish us all for everything we did (assuming that he exists of course). He could easily just show himself. But when he would do this, humans wouldn't have any choice but to follow him, they wouldn't have any free will. When an all powerful being is seen by every human and is living on this earth, we wouldn't have any other choice to follow this being or be killed by it. But god has given us a free will. And we can't choose when everyone knows that god exists. Free will only exists when god isn't penetrably by us humans.

 

Perhaps you know the book "The Problem of Pain" by C. S. Lewis. There he explains it this way: Evil exists and happens in our world, not because god is evil, but because humans are evil. When now god would come and stop this evil (stop wars, murder etc. etc.) then he would rob us from our own free will. Free will includes that we can choose between evil and good.

 

Now we can of course argue, why god has given us a free will from the first place, when he knew that most people will choose to use it for doing what is evil. God created us after his image (Genesis 1) and this includes having a free will. He knew exactly that humans will do evil things. He also knew that a lot of people will die in the process. But he didn't want to have marionettes who only did what he wanted them to do, he wanted self-thinking beings who could choose. And in order to save the majority of those self-thinking beings, he had to sacrifice some of them (remember that he can't interfere directly because then he would take away our free will).

 

OK, now to your arguments, Peregrin:

 

No. Killing someone for having the "wrong" belief is wrong. The God in your bible has a massive ego problem. Under the laws of any civilized society God would be found guilty of murder

 

Try to see it from the point of god. You never can jugde any being (this includes humans from different cultures) from the point of view of your culture and society.

 

God creates the universe, the earth and humans. Instead of following the way of good, they choose evil. He doesn't kill them instantly for this, but lets them live, because he plans to save them later. In order to become what he wants us to become, we have to go through the experience of evil (or else we wouldn't be able to really have a free will). Later on people begin to forget that he has created them and begin to worship not existing gods and sacrificing them. He created every being on this earth and now those beings forget him. Not only do they forget him, they begin to go on the most evil ways possible (murder, rape, robbery etc.). So he chooses to let a minority alive (Noah and his familiy) and kills the rest, so that Noah and his descendants can begin anew. This he did to show what he can do, but then he also promises not to do it again until the end of the world has come.

Soon again those humans forget that he exists. He told them to live on the whole earth, but instead they stay in one place and try achieve what we try to do now. God thinks that they aren't ready for such a power yet, so he gives them different languages and so the humans seperate in different nations and settle everywhere on this planet. Soon again he is forgotten, but then he chooses one man in order to show the world that he exists still (And through you shall be blessed all nations on this earth; Genesis 12, 3). He promises this man (Abraham) a country where already another nation lives (the Canaanites). Then he tells Abraham that he wants to give those people one last chance of 400 years to turn around from their evil ways and to worship him again, to worship the only true god and their creator and to stop doing such evil things.

Abrahams descendants live 400 years in Egypt as slaves and then god shows his power to his chosen people (the Hebrews) with the plagues of Egypt. After these plagues, they can leave Egypt and begin their journey to the country that was promised to them 400 years ago. Despite what he had done for his people (all the wonders they saw on their way through the desert) they still don't want to follow him and to believe in his word. So he punishs them to journey through the desert as nomads for another 40 years (he could just have killed them and get rid of the problem, but he lets them live and in doing this gives them another chance). After those 40 years they begin slowly to conquer this country. What happens there is sometimes very brutal (as you probably know from the book of Josua). But as said (you didn't quite understand this, Peregrin), he has given the inhabitants of this country 400 years to turn around and stop. You want some more examples for what they did, Peregrin? OK, I'll give you some.

 

Not only children were sacrificed but also normal persons. To sacrifice humans is one of the things god hates the most. He never wanted a human sacrifice. And the passage where he orders Abraham to sacrifice his son was a test, he never would have allowed it to happen. The commandment "You shall not kill" is translated wrong. In fact is says "You shall not murder". To kill a human as sacrifice is murder. It isn't murder when people are killed in wars, by accident or as punishment (death penalty). So therefore the Hebrews didn't break god's law when they conquered Canaan, because it was a war and a punishment at the same time. The Canaanites also had the tradition of so called "temple-whores". Those weren't women who choose to be whores, they were slave-women forced to do this. And of course there was the matter of those other gods, which the Canaanites worshipped. From our point of view you can't jugde someone for his different belief. But we aren't god, we are only humans like them. But when god is, what he says he is, then only he has to be worshipped, because only he is god. Doesn't a creator have the right to be worshipped by his creations and the creations the duty to worship their creator? He created us, he sacrificed himself so that we can be saved. When this is true, then in fact it should only allowed to worship him.

 

Peregrin, have you ever looked at the laws which god gave the Hebrews in the books of Moses? When you look at them closely you will notice some very interesting points. Those laws were very advanced for the time they were written (the law of Hammurabi was far mor brutal and unjust). There are a lot of laws only to protect the rights of women. There are laws for hygiene. Also no one can be convicted when there aren't at least several witnesses for the crime. Also those laws state that no one can be punished for the crimes of another person (to punish members of a family for what the husband did was common in those times). There are laws to protect the weak, poor, foreigners, widdows, orphans, prisoners etc. Also there was a law which allowed slavery only for seven years (in the seventh year the slave had to be let free). All slaves had to be slaves of their own will (because they couldn't pay there debts, for example). After seven years all debts had to be forgiven. There was even a law that everyone had to give money to the poor inside the settlement.

 

So let me get this right... God sent himself down to earth to save people from his own wrath. And the only way he could stop himself from destroying humanity was to sacrifice himself. And he did all this out of love.

 

Where is basic sanity in all this? God either has the most distorted sense of justice I've ever heard of, or he is insane. That's not mercy, that's madness.

 

That is again something you missunderstood, Peregrin. Because god is absolute holy, only something else that is absolute holy is just in front of him. Because we humans aren't absolute holy, we are all condemned. God can not allow even the slightest unholiness in front of his pressence. It is like light and darkness. You can't have both at the same place. Either at one place there is light or there is darkness.

 

Now god knew that we never could be holy. Then holy is only something or someone that never ever did something unholy. And we all did something unholy, so therefore we are condemned. Because it isn't possible for us to become holy or enter his realm of our own strength, he himself had to suffer the punishment which was meant for us. I'll try to explain with an example:

 

In a court ten people are convicted for murder and will suffer death penalty in the next minutes. Suddenly the jugde himself stands up and says: "I will suffer the punishment. Those men shall go free." The jugde is let to where ever the punishment takes place and is killed. After his death the jugde suddenly rises, miraclousy alive again, and stepps back to where he belongs. Some of the criminals accept the offer and leave. Some say: "Pah, this isn't possible. Get on with it, I'll don't want to wait for my death the whole day." They are also led to the place of punishment and are killed, but they don't rise again and their dead bodies are taken away, where ever the dead bodies are put.

 

A convicted criminal can't free himself from his punishment. Only when someone shows mercy and lets him go free. The bible says that we are all convicted criminals, convicted of sin. Even when we only commited one little sin, we are guilty. For this crime there is only one punishment: death. It is the same as with light and darkness, holiness and unholiness: Live and death can't exist at the same place. Why god created us the way we are (flawed, as you say) I already explained above. Now the only way to correct this flaw and at the same time keep our free will, god has to punish one part of himself (the son) in order to take away the punishment from us.

 

By the way, Here is an explanation for the divine trinity (I know that a lot of people have problem with this): Water (and every other element, but water is the most common known) can exist in three ways: solid, liquid and gas. But still it is water. It can be ice (god father), it can be liquid water (god son) or it can be steam (holy spirit) but still it is H2O (god).

 

 

EDIT:

 

I really like discussing with you, Peregrin, I didn't have such a challenge for months! Perhaps I should become a lawyer, I just like discussing to much ^_^ But then again, studying law is sooo boring... Well, let us continue our little war. Hope no one contacts the UNO to interfere :P Weapons loaded, rockets fired, did I hit something over there? Oh, I better get prepared, you'll probably fire back soon... Anyone wanna join the war? Hey, it's real fun to do this, I didn't enjoy myself this way for a loooong time. Good fighting, Peregrin *holding up the rocket launcher and aiming at Peregrin* :D

 

So, I'll end my babble and get prepared for the next round.

[Breton Thief Oriana]

Well, regardless, if it really is insane, it has no morals, because its morals are skewed. An insane person thinks that he is doing what is right, true or not, even if he is killing.

[ThetaOrionis01]

I think this whole debate is fundamentally flawed.

 

If you do believe in a god who is omnipotent and omnipresent, creator of the universe and everything within it etc etc, then you must automatically concede that such a being has an understanding of everything, and a perspective of everything, which dwarfs that of any human. So, by acknowledging the god entity's divinity, you acknowledge that this entity is a superior being whose motivation is outside any human understanding.

You can therefore only approach the concept of this entity's morality from a human viewpoint - IMO to define the divine in human terms is not possible, and even the attempt verges on blasphemy (how can any human hope to enter god's mind?). It would be akin to drawing a picture of a 5-dimensional object - it is not possible, as humans are not capable of picturing 5 dimensions. Even as your interpretation of this 5-dimensional object is only a flawed interpretation, so is your explanation and justification of the god entity's actions and morality flawed from the outset since you cannot possibly understand it.

 

 

If on the other hand you believe, as I do, that gods are an invention of humankind, and that the bible was written by humans, then you are not debating the morality of god, but that of a fictitious entity - and, consequently, the morality and agenda of the people who created this entity.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Breton Thief Oriana]

theta--in a spam, bingo!

 

 

i agree whole(or possibly coal)heartedly.

[Peregrine]

Theta Orionis:

 

Well, this discussion was split from another thread, where the discussion was about the harm/benefits of organized religion. Darnoc made a post claiming that Christianity could not motivate evil, because its ideals were entirely good. My first post here is my objections to his points.

 

So yes, I agree that the debate is flawed, for the second reason you give: God is a human invention. But to allow a discussion of the initial argument, I'm making two assumptions.

 

1) The bible is an accurate historical account of God's actions.

2) We can judge God, and he is subject to the same morality as the rest of us.

 

Think of this as a trial of God for his crimes.

 

Breton Thief Oriana:

 

Yes, insanity can get in the way of moral judgement. But the question isn't whether God believes/believed he was right, but whether his actions were morally correct by the laws of humanity.

 

Darnoc:

 

I think Peregrin, you don't really get the point. God can not interfere in such a direct way you propose he should (or you think he would if he really was god). He could easily step down and punish us all for everything we did (assuming that he exists of course). He could easily just show himself. But when he would do this, humans wouldn't have any choice but to follow him, they wouldn't have any free will. When an all powerful being is seen by every human and is living on this earth, we wouldn't have any other choice to follow this being or be killed by it. But god has given us a free will. And we can't choose when everyone knows that god exists. Free will only exists when god isn't penetrably by us humans.

 

Yes, of couse free will is a good thing. But if you accept the bible as true, he has involved himself in our world. So lets add limiting free will to the list of his crimes.

 

Try to see it from the point of god. You never can jugde any being (this includes humans from different cultures) from the point of view of your culture and society.

 

Yes you can. If my culture says murder is right, and I kill you, are you suddenly unable to judge my actions? Should I be forgiven because nobody else can understand me? No, I shouldn't. If God hadn't been involved in our world, then you might have a point. But that isn't the case, so his actions in our world can be judged by our laws.

 

God creates the universe, the earth and humans. Instead of following the way of good, they choose evil. He doesn't kill them instantly for this, but lets them live, because he plans to save them later. In order to become what he wants us to become, we have to go through the experience of evil (or else we wouldn't be able to really have a free will). Later on people begin to forget that he has created them and begin to worship not existing gods and sacrificing them. He created every being on this earth and now those beings forget him. Not only do they forget him, they begin to go on the most evil ways possible (murder, rape, robbery etc.). So he chooses to let a minority alive (Noah and his familiy) and kills the rest, so that Noah and his descendants can begin anew. This he did to show what he can do, but then he also promises not to do it again until the end of the world has come.

 

Translation: mass murder of innocent people is justified as long as you're God. Not every person was guilty of those major crimes. God could have easily punished the people guilty of the most serious crimes and left the others alive. Instead, people guilty of minor sin (at most) are killed. That isn't justice. No reasonably system of justice executes people for minor crimes. In any civilized society God would be found guilty of murder.

 

Soon again those humans forget that he exists. He told them to live on the whole earth, but instead they stay in one place and try achieve what we try to do now. God thinks that they aren't ready for such a power yet, so he gives them different languages and so the humans seperate in different nations and settle everywhere on this planet. Soon again he is forgotten, but then he chooses one man in order to show the world that he exists still (And through you shall be blessed all nations on this earth; Genesis 12, 3). He promises this man (Abraham) a country where already another nation lives (the Canaanites). Then he tells Abraham that he wants to give those people one last chance of 400 years to turn around from their evil ways and to worship him again, to worship the only true god and their creator and to stop doing such evil things.

 

So God destroys free will in contradiction to your introduction. Free will would mean that humans are able to live as they want. But instead, God splits them because they aren't living as he wants them to. So God's love of free will only exists when he feels like it? God will ignore free will if he doesn't think we deserve power, but if we do evil things, he won't?

 

Abrahams descendants live 400 years in Egypt as slaves and then god shows his power to his chosen people (the Hebrews) with the plagues of Egypt. After these plagues, they can leave Egypt and begin their journey to the country that was promised to them 400 years ago.

 

So God punishes innocent people for 400 years. Where is this justice you're talking about?

 

Despite what he had done for his people (all the wonders they saw on their way through the desert) they still don't want to follow him and to believe in his word. So he punishs them to journey through the desert as nomads for another 40 years (he could just have killed them and get rid of the problem, but he lets them live and in doing this gives them another chance).

 

So now failure to believe in God is a crime worth execution? That's not a crime at all! But despite his "mercy," he still makes them suffer for 40 years. That's what you call free will?

 

God is a criminal with a universe sized ego.

 

Not only children were sacrificed but also normal persons. To sacrifice humans is one of the things god hates the most. He never wanted a human sacrifice. And the passage where he orders Abraham to sacrifice his son was a test, he never would have allowed it to happen. The commandment "You shall not kill" is translated wrong. In fact is says "You shall not murder". To kill a human as sacrifice is murder. It isn't murder when people are killed in wars, by accident or as punishment (death penalty). So therefore the Hebrews didn't break god's law when they conquered Canaan, because it was a war and a punishment at the same time. The Canaanites also had the tradition of so called "temple-whores". Those weren't women who choose to be whores, they were slave-women forced to do this.

 

But still innocent people died. The entire civlization could not possibly be evil worthy of death. So now it's justice to destroy an entire civilization for the crimes of a few of its members?

 

And of course there was the matter of those other gods, which the Canaanites worshipped. From our point of view you can't jugde someone for his different belief. But we aren't god, we are only humans like them. But when god is, what he says he is, then only he has to be worshipped, because only he is god. Doesn't a creator have the right to be worshipped by his creations and the creations the duty to worship their creator? He created us, he sacrificed himself so that we can be saved. When this is true, then in fact it should only allowed to worship him.

 

That is pure evil and a massive ego problem. I'll say it once again, failure to believe in God is not a crime. And especially not a crime that should be punished by death. And this sacrifice claim is a joke. God saved us from his own wrath! That doesn't give him the right to demand worship or death!

 

Peregrin, have you ever looked at the laws which god gave the Hebrews in the books of Moses? When you look at them closely you will notice some very interesting points. Those laws were very advanced for the time they were written (the law of Hammurabi was far mor brutal and unjust). There are a lot of laws only to protect the rights of women. There are laws for hygiene. Also no one can be convicted when there aren't at least several witnesses for the crime. Also those laws state that no one can be punished for the crimes of another person (to punish members of a family for what the husband did was common in those times). There are laws to protect the weak, poor, foreigners, widdows, orphans, prisoners etc. Also there was a law which allowed slavery only for seven years (in the seventh year the slave had to be let free). All slaves had to be slaves of their own will (because they couldn't pay there debts, for example). After seven years all debts had to be forgiven. There was even a law that everyone had to give money to the poor inside the settlement.

 

So because God got a few things right, we should forgive all his crimes? If an otherwise good person murders a thousand people, should we forgive them? Why should God be treated any differently?

 

That is again something you missunderstood, Peregrin. Because god is absolute holy, only something else that is absolute holy is just in front of him.

 

God is not absolutely holy. God does not have the right to judge like that. God's idea of justice is evil.

 

Because we humans aren't absolute holy, we are all condemned.

 

Condemned by God. God made those rules. He condemned us, and decided that he was pure holiness. God has a massive ego problem.

 

God can not allow even the slightest unholiness in front of his pressence. It is like light and darkness. You can't have both at the same place. Either at one place there is light or there is darkness.

 

Because his ego refuses to accept anything other than himself as perfection. That's not a good thing!

 

Now god knew that we never could be holy. Then holy is only something or someone that never ever did something unholy. And we all did something unholy, so therefore we are condemned. Because it isn't possible for us to become holy or enter his realm of our own strength, he himself had to suffer the punishment which was meant for us.

 

Translation: God decided that we couldn't be holy. He decided that we couldn't enter his realm by our own actions. Therefore he had to give himself the punishment that he had decided we should get.

 

God is insane!

 

In a court ten people are convicted for murder and will suffer death penalty in the next minutes. Suddenly the jugde himself stands up and says: "I will suffer the punishment. Those men shall go free." The jugde is let to where ever the punishment takes place and is killed. After his death the jugde suddenly rises, miraclousy alive again, and stepps back to where he belongs. Some of the criminals accept the offer and leave. Some say: "Pah, this isn't possible. Get on with it, I'll don't want to wait for my death the whole day." They are also led to the place of punishment and are killed, but they don't rise again and their dead bodies are taken away, where ever the dead bodies are put.

 

Your example makes no sense. The judge is sacrficing himself to remove a punishment ordered by someone else. God is sacrificing himself to remove a punishment he ordered! Why does he have to bother with this insanity? Why not simply decide not to punish them?

 

A convicted criminal can't free himself from his punishment. Only when someone shows mercy and lets him go free. The bible says that we are all convicted criminals, convicted of sin. Even when we only commited one little sin, we are guilty. For this crime there is only one punishment: death. It is the same as with light and darkness, holiness and unholiness: Live and death can't exist at the same place. Why god created us the way we are (flawed, as you say) I already explained above. Now the only way to correct this flaw and at the same time keep our free will, god has to punish one part of himself (the son) in order to take away the punishment from us.

 

This is the most unfair, evil, system of "justice" I've ever heard of. How can you possibly claim that every sin, no matter how minor, deserves death and eternity in Hell? God's idea of justice is absolutely immoral by the standards of any civilized society.

[Tilindra Melir]

I think one of the best things I've heard that sums up god's relation to man was in "Malcom in the middle", end of season 4.

 

Dewey has been toldthat we are as ants to god and we must do good to make him notice us. He tells the lady that he once spent a day looking at ants and he couldn't really tell which were good or evil, because they were too small so he just smited them all the same, with his foot, a magnifying glass, a shovel, etc.. In the end he didn't really care which were good or evil because he was having fun with the smiting.

 

He was then happy with the knowledge that it didn't matter what he did because god didn't care anyway, and that the only reason to do good is to better ourselves.

:P

[Breton Thief Oriana]

well, pergrine, you yourself said that god had to have madness for the things you mentioned.