Is anything left of due process in our country?

[TheMastersSon]

Bad cops are a fact of life, but what floored me about this story is that both men plan to appeal their respective dismissal and demotion :

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41584187

 

If anyone can explain what message these idiots are trying to send by appealing, I'd be most appreciative. Are they claiming blood samples should be forcibly taken from unconscious people who aren't suspected of any crime, simply because a cop demands it and with no warrant from a court? It's beyond astonishing to me.

[RavenMind]

Sadly, this occurred where I live, and with a department I am very familiar with & have worked along side for more than a decade. They really made all of us look bad. It boggles the mind that this took place, and none of the other officers and deputies I've talked to about it can believe how trained officers could behave like this. No, I can't imagine they have any grounds for appeal. I think they're just wanting to keep their retirement, and attempting to protect themselves from the inevitable (and justifiable) civil rights lawsuit. It saddens me to see officers throw away their entire career, reputation, and family's income with one very stupid decision.

 

Please everyone just try to remember that this is not representative of all law enforcement officers, nor even the majority.

[TheMastersSon]

The cop had 27 years of experience on the force, so it's mind-boggling indeed. Are we supposed to believe he didn't know the procedures for obtaining blood samples from hospitals, or maybe he did know but believed himself to be above the law?

 

Unfortunately it's not the only example I've seen of law enforcement overstepping their rights, e.g. I recently saw a bank with signs in their windows addressed specifically to police, "This is private property" etc. Sorta scary imo that they apparently need to be publicly reminded of their rights limits.

[RavenMind]

Just remember "they" equals a WHOLE LOT of good men & women trying their best to do a very difficult job under increasing scrutiny by a public that usually doesn't know the entirety of what is going on. The officer received an order to arrest the woman. This puts him in the difficult position of obeying an order which he may or may not have believed to be illegal, or refusing the order - at which point, there's no public scrutiny, this never becomes an issue, and he's fired or reprimanded for failure to obey a commanding officer. Yes, he made the wrong choice, but it's one I certainly don't envy. It's frustrating when so many officers & deputies do so many things right during years of service, and it's never shown. Then a very tiny minority of contacts go wrong and it's all over the news. I'm in no way defending the choice he made, or especially the order from his Lt. Just want to remind people that there's still a few good people out there trying to protect us.

[TheMastersSon]

If what you say is true and the beat cop was ordered to arrest this nurse, imo the penalties should be reversed. In fact imo the cop shouldn't bear any penalty at all and has the option of a countersuit against his department for forcing him to violate our law and Constitution.

[HeyYou]

Actually, due process worked here. The nurse knew the law, and stuck with it. The cops, that tried to circumvent the law, got their just deserts.

 

Also, the cop that went to the hospital could have declined the order, as it was unlawful. (and he likely knew that too.....) Just like in the military, you are only REQUIRED to follow LAWFUL orders. If you make that decision, and are right, there aren't any repercussions. (at least, not technically, you instantly have a superior that hates you though....) If you are wrong.... well, then you are unemployed.

[TheMastersSon]

Actually, due process worked here. The nurse knew the law, and stuck with it. The cops, that tried to circumvent the law, got their just deserts.

 

Also, the cop that went to the hospital could have declined the order, as it was unlawful. (and he likely knew that too.....) Just like in the military, you are only REQUIRED to follow LAWFUL orders. If you make that decision, and are right, there aren't any repercussions. (at least, not technically, you instantly have a superior that hates you though....) If you are wrong.... well, then you are unemployed.

Due process for both hospital employees and patients failed here. Read the story, it's the exact reason the two cops were dismissed, demoted and face very probable civil and hefty lawsuits from this nurse. In our country nobody has the right to show up to a hospital and demand a blood sample without a court warrant, and it doesn't matter who you are. That was the due process violation against patients. And hospital employees have the legal right to do their jobs and protect their patients, without being arrested for it. So their due process also was violated.

 

Note that none of the above is relevant to whether the beat cop or his commander should bear final responsibility for this. IMO blame should always be assigned to commanders.

 

I'll wait to hear what these two cops claim in their appeals. In the meantime mind-boggling is still the best adjective for it imo.

Edited October 16, 2017 by TheMastersSon

[HeyYou]

I read the story. Yes, the cop was out of line. However, it isn't like this doesn't happen elsewhere, on a fairly regular basis. "due process" is the pervue of the court system, which takes over AFTER the cops are done with you.

[TheMastersSon]

I sincerely don't know what that's even supposed to mean. Our constitutional rights including due process are not the pervue of or granted by courts: they are inherent rights:

 

"Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects the individual person from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due process violation, which offends the rule of law."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

 

The first due process violation in this case occurred the moment this cop walked in and demanded a blood sample without the proper court warrant. No court or judge was required to declare it a violation.

Edited October 17, 2017 by TheMastersSon

[queenbee21283]

Cops and soldiers follow orders... however there comes a time when we must disobey those orders given in the heat of the moment lest we break the oath we swore.

 

I do not now nor have I ever understood the term "Just following Orders" I have been tempted, I have been given orders i flat out knew were wrong and made the choice not to follow them.

 

Regardless of weather or not this officer was acting on his own accord or from higher this is unacceptable.