Election Year Debate

[HeyYou]

Myrmaad, you bring up some interesting points in your last couple of paragraphs. I have been and continue albeit somewhat reluctantly to be an Obama supporter. My biggest gripe of late is his continuing attempt to be a "Uniter, not a Divider" in an atmosphere where it is getting him and us absolutely nowhere. I am beginning to agree with your thesis regarding the straight ticket, although it has never been my habit to vote this way. It has just become so frustrating in this day and age that one wonders what else to do, at least in the national elections.

 

I have been attempting to post an article I read which puts a slightly different light on some of the spin we hear from the right on how badly Mr. Obama has handled the economy and how he has been responsible for all of our problems, yada, yada, yada. However, I am unable to include the charts and graphs when I attempt to copy the article, so here is a link for any who are interested. I recommend it, as it is most enlightening for both sides. http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/02/republicans-trashing-the-obama-recovery.html

"His continuing attempt to a be a Uniter"..dear god so that is what you all someone who pits one sector of the population against the other? This campaign bears no resemblance to a unification theme, largely due to the fact that his ACTUAL record is something that he can't run on. Vice President Biden "They don't get us", no we don't get you Joe...you having been living off the taxpayer dime your entire life as career politician and who by the way has a million dollar home in my state..not his. This country of roughly 350 Million has over 3 million people whose net worth exceeds a million, out of that roughly 44% inherited it the other 56% EARNED it. These filthy capitalists pay 40% of the taxes whereas almost 49% of the great unwashed pay NOTHING. The level of BS in this campaign requires even higher hip waders than usual. President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama hold assets worth between nearly $2.6 million and nearly $8.3 million, according to financial disclosure reports released by the White House. Us versus them? To quote Pogo "We have met the enemy and they are us", to say that the administration's campaign is disingenuous is an understatement. (Tax stats from Forbes)

 

Sounds just like any other political campaign to me...... :D

 

Yep, I have millions, but, I understand the "little guy" line is getting truly old. Romney was born to wealth, made a pile of cash as a corporate raider, (and yes, I will grant, he DID do some good things as well....) and has absolutely no idea what most americans are having to struggle with just to make ends meet. Of course, that story is EXACTLY the same for ANY presidential candidate....... No wonder the middle class is disappearing so quickly.

[grannywils]

http://www.igopogo.com/images/Wehavemet01.jpg

 

In my opinion it is about time he began stating where he believes the obstructions lie. He has been attempting to get along and be politically correct for far too long. Politics during an election year are dirty and frequently unscruplious; a fact which I will not even attempt to justify. I abhor it, but it has been thus for quite some time now.

 

I will not dispute Forbes' figures. I will just state that my definition of earning money and theirs may differ somewhat. That being neither here nor there, I also have no gripe with people's right to be wealthy (a fact of which you are already aware).

 

What I will dispute is the statement that these people are paying "40%" of the taxes. They may be responsible for 40% of the taxes due to their income levels, etc., but there are more holes in the tax laws for both wealthy individuals and corporations than there are for middle income people; and those whom you refer to as the great unwashed who pay nothing as they earn virtually nothing.

 

I will agree however, that the wealthiest percentage of our population are finally antiing up more than they were in the past, but this has only been a fairly recent change. I am not sure who gets credit, but will assume that the right will take it.

 

I am also not sure what point you are trying to make by establishing the wealth and property ownership of our current president and vice president. It is not surprising to learn that they are well to do. This has been the case with virtually all of our recent presidential office holders. That doesn't prevent them from being president of all of the people; and in the case of our two current candidates my view is that Mr. Obama is more likely to have a tendency to accept that role willingly and with a spirit of understanding than Mr. Romney could never have.

[Arthmoor]

In my opinion it is about time he began stating where he believes the obstructions lie. He has been attempting to get along and be politically correct for far too long.

I'll never be able to understand how anyone can actually believe this about Obama or any of the other Democrats who are as liberal as he is. Even more so because the statement is flat out false by his own words. The whole "we won, deal with it" thing that happened very soon after the 2008 election.

 

The irony here is that it's actually true of Bush. He DID state where the obstructions lie, he DID attempt to get along, and sadly, he DID also attempt to be politically correct for too long. What did that get him? The most vile and hateful attacks I've ever seen against a living soul in my lifetime.

[HeyYou]

I think the whole "the party of No" moniker is pretty common knowledge. Not to mention the the many rumors of republican obstructionism, simply to prevent ANYTHING from happening, that Obama could potentially use as campaign material. He has zero foreign policy 'victories', in fact, he fell flat on his face there as well. Bowing to various heads of state, apologizing for some perceived wrong to others... etc. Quite frankly, as a 'head of state', he really doesn't make much of an attempt to portray himself as the leader of the worlds most powerful nation..... (well, militarily at least....)

 

Of course, the dems really aren't any better. They sure aren't going to let the republicans pass anything either. Giving them any campaign material would be 'bad' from their perspective as well.

 

So, whatta we get? A do-nothing government. The only things that actually pass are those things that are absolutely required to keep the government going, without pissing off EVERYONE in BOTH constituencies. Not to mention the stuff that goes thru with very little fanfare, as everyone in washington is well aware that the american people would be unhappy if they knew what was really going on. (Free trade agreements with Columbia, Panama, and S. Korea, for example......)

 

At this point in time, the american people are so divided, and KEPT THAT WAY by the folks in washington, that I am amazed anything at all happens. We cannot continue in this manner for long, before the pressure is going to burst the dam. At that point, it is going to be too late for 'appeasement', or 'cooperation', and life is going to become really interesting, really quickly. Both sides are entrenched in their positions, seem to be fully convinced that their course is the ONLY course, and the other guys are loony tunes for believing anything else. No one will cooperate, no one will compromise. There are no solutions, only more problems.

[Aurielius]

Pakistani authorities have sentenced a doctor accused of helping the CIA find Osama bin Laden to 33 years in jail on charges of treason. In January, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said in a television interview that Afridi and his team had been key in finding bin Laden, describing him as helpful and insisting the doctor had not committed treason or harmed Pakistan. So the administration outed him while making new videos of their foreign policy victory. Obama administration officials offered Hollywood filmmakers access to a member of the top secret Navy SEALs team that killed Osama bin Laden last year, newly released documents show. Way to go Obama...I am glad you were not around for the Revolutionary War, you might have given up Patrick Henry to the Brits for a day in the sunshine.

[HeyYou]

And Pakistan is supposedly our ally.........

 

I am wondering why in thunder we are even still there..... The paki's have closed our supply routes, were harboring Osama, support the haqqani network (however that's spelled), their military doesn't always do what their government wants them to..... and on and on and on. In return, we give them billions in aid...... both monetary, and military. Once again, we are arming our probable future enemies. Are we really that stupid?

[Aurielius]

@HY

In fairness a republican administration did arm the Taliban to get back at the Soviets for arming the Vietnamese...so yes it seems we are that stupid. :wallbash:

[Aurielius]

"A US senate committee has voted to cut Pakistan's aid by $1m for each of the 33 years of a prison sentence given to a doctor for helping the CIA to track down Osama bin Laden.

The appropriations committee unanimously approved the $33m reduction as outrage grows in Washington over the conviction of Shakil Afridi for treason . The physician ran a fake vaccination programme in an attempt to collect Bin Laden's DNA in order to verify he was living in the Abbottabad compound where he was eventually killed a year ago.

The aid cut will not be immediately implemented as it comes out of next year's budget, but it will increase the pressure on the Pakistan government as Washington seeks to have Afridi's conviction quashed or his sentence substantially reduced.

The appropriations committee debate reflected the frustration at what many in Washington see as Pakistan's duplicity that has bubbled away for many years over the links between its intelligence service and the Taliban, and was accentuated when it was revealed that Bin Laden was living untouched in a garrison town."

"We need Pakistan. Pakistan needs us," said Senator Lindsey Graham, who helped write the legislation cutting aid. "But we don't need a Pakistan that is just double dealing."- The Guardian UK

 

At least the Senate (with bi partisan support if you can believe it) tried to do something on behalf of Afridi since the administration seems to be too gutless to do anything that might upset the apple cart in an election year.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Aurielius

[HeyYou]

Why do we need Pakistan? They cut off our supply routes, and made us shut down the drone operations from within their borders. They don't put much effort into chasing down taliban in their country, they actually have ties to a terrorist organization that we are directly fighting...... So far as I am concerned, we should stop ALL aid to Pakistan...... not to mention getting the heck out of Afghanistan..... No permanent presence either, not even contractors that are paid with tax dollars. PULL OUT NOW!

[Arthmoor]

We should never have been funneling billions into Pakistan to begin with. Certainly shouldn't be doing it now that they're arresting people for helping us find bin Laden. This "punishment" from the Senate is peanuts. $33 million means absolutely nothing when you're routinely approving spending bills handing them BILLIONS. Cut them off entirely. India can keep them in check if they need keeping in check.