Daggerfall Sized Land

[reapa]

Is there a reason why nobody made a huge landmass the size of daggerfall's yet for Fallout 4?

I mean it's the perfect game for it with the radiant quests and the settlement mechanics.

One wouldn't even need to fill the land with anything other than some procedurally generated random dungeons/cellars/bunkers because players could build the cities themselves. the "dungeons" could also get added to the game by the community as "submods" for the landmass mod. All we really need is land.

Edited December 10, 2017 by reapa

[NobodySignificant]

completely agree

[jkruse05]

There is actually a limit to the landmass size within Bethesda's engine. Don't remember exactly what it is, but it's roughly twice the size of Skyrim, give or take. Nowhere close to Daggerfall.

[montky]

howdy!

indeed,

there are a few pertinent threads;

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/6174918-help-with-understanding-the-ugrids-relation-to-interiorexterior-buffer/

and

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5522717-fallout-4-optimization-and-performance-systems-explained/

 

so, yes, there are some stern any-time-t limits.

look into Memory Den Virtual Settlement framework etc,

and into The UnderBoston/Better Aquatic Spelunking 'procedural iterative 'dungeoneering'

 

it can be different to the uGrid topology,

that is "just" a descartes/Cantorian manifold, which is an unwrap of a particular solid

in the hexadec backend (see PoorlyAged, RedRocketTV or Shavkacagarikia for more)

so, it could be more like a duodec or hexaflexagon shape unwrap of nth-dimensional topology,

instead of 'only' the cantorian approach.

 

LineOfSight and compression etc would be main factors in the manifold's logic-rubric.

 

 

 

that said, then there's stuff like

Memory Den Virtual Holodeck, TARDIS, any door to any where, ruadhan2300's teleporter,

the Theta-Tan realm etc

oh, how could I forget

BlahBlahDeeBlahBlah's 2D-3D sketchland,

and Todd'sville (a Todd Howard toddy mod at BethNet creationclub)

 

-----

Many of these are also within the new-lands and openGNU/CCA3,0 SA-RD-Remix "community resource" framework.

this means that the Read-Me is explicit in what folks can and can't do,

and that folks are encouraged to alter and riff on the "MasterCopy" for each edition of it.

 

The more folks offer a framework where remixes are encouraged,

the more we'll see _nX^! levels of awesomeness!

 

the reason we're seeing a lot of complex mods hold off and wait,

is ostensibly due to there not being a GameOfTheYear/GoodOlGames 'stable release"

_{^{that and the MasterCopy Living EULA issues}}

rather than many 'death by a thousand cuts' rolling updates...

we've seen the headaches that can cause as they disable certain kinds of modding etc...

that is a separate chat though.

 

 

[reapa]

i don't understand what there is that is so hard to handle by the game engine. tamriel rebuilt has a huge landmass added to morrowind and all they had to do was to change the world map.

 

 

here's Tamriel
do you see?
and in the north east is morrowind.
do you see?
and tamriel is several times bigger than morrowind.
do you see?
and it all runs on the same old morrowind engine.
do you see?

Final Numbers
Skyrim=14.5 sq miles
Oblivion=22 sq miles
Morrowind=9.3 sq miles
FO3=50 sq miles
FO:NV=21 sq miles
Fallout 4=14.2 sq miles
daggerfall=62,394 sq miles
do you see?

Edited December 13, 2017 by reapa

[reapa]

There is actually a limit to the landmass size within Bethesda's engine. Don't remember exactly what it is, but it's roughly twice the size of Skyrim, give or take. Nowhere close to Daggerfall.

it seems what i'm asking for is not much bigger than fallout 3. it's a mystery to me why they went with a world 4 times as small as fallout 3's with fallout 4.

[jkruse05]

Fallout 3 is somewhere between 15 and 20 sq miles, not 50. Morrowind may have supported a somewhat larger map, since the engine has been heavily modified since then, but Tamriel Rebuilt only adds, roughly, triple the landmass of Vvardenfell, so around 30sq miles. I know the Skyrim version of the engine is technically capable of doing all of Tamriel, but encounters significant errors above a certain point, so that point is generally considered the practical limit.

 

From what I've read that practical limit is somewhere between 20 and 30 sq miles. Some of that space is also needed for the illusion of distant land beyond the borders, unless you just want the land to just drop off.

 

What you COULD do is something like Beyond Skyrim. They plan to make every province within Skyrim, but the landmasses for each one are separated and require you to go through a dungeon or mountain pass and through a load screen. They actually have an article somewhere discussing the size restrictions of the engine and why they can't just make one big map. If Tamriel Rebuilt adds more provinces beyond Morrowind I'm willing to bet they'll require load screens like that.

 

 

Finally, what you 'asked for' was a landmass the size of Daggerfall's. That's, according to your data, 62,394 sq miles. I would not call that 'not much bigger' than Fallout 3, even if it was 50 sq miles.

Edited December 14, 2017 by jkruse05

[reapa]

Fallout 3 is somewhere between 15 and 20 sq miles, not 50. Morrowind may have supported a somewhat larger map, since the engine has been heavily modified since then, but Tamriel Rebuilt only adds, roughly, triple the landmass of Vvardenfell, so around 30sq miles. I know the Skyrim version of the engine is technically capable of doing all of Tamriel, but encounters significant errors above a certain point, so that point is generally considered the practical limit.

 

From what I've read that practical limit is somewhere between 20 and 30 sq miles. Some of that space is also needed for the illusion of distant land beyond the borders, unless you just want the land to just drop off.

 

What you COULD do is something like Beyond Skyrim. They plan to make every province within Skyrim, but the landmasses for each one are separated and require you to go through a dungeon or mountain pass and through a load screen. They actually have an article somewhere discussing the size restrictions of the engine and why they can't just make one big map. If Tamriel Rebuilt adds more provinces beyond Morrowind I'm willing to bet they'll require load screens like that.

 

 

Finally, what you 'asked for' was a landmass the size of Daggerfall's. That's, according to your data, 62,394 sq miles. I would not call that 'not much bigger' than Fallout 3, even if it was 50 sq miles.

so with passes it's not limited at all. I'd be fine with passes. fast travel is behind loading screens anyway.

is there a simple way to generate some land? if no one else is gonna do it, i might give it a try.

[reapa]

it seems i have succeded in creating an infinite world. will test it a bit more and then upload it.

the engine did not complain.

[reapa]

done

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/28531/