loveme4whoiam Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Right. I've checked the forums, and found nowt within 180 days of today, so i guess we're safe. The only thing close was the Cafe Philosphique thread. I'll start with the rules, since we all seem to forget them when we get passionate. No aggressive posting; these are peoples opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own. If you are responding to a post please try and include facts, since it makes it easier to conduct the debate. Apart from that, go nuts. Anyway, the Perfect Society. What is it? When are we going to get there? Can we get there? What would it be like? In my opinion, as a devoted Marxist, be Communist. The People will own everything, and equality shall be a realised dream. It will be a truely democratic society, since Communism is just that; the perfect democratic system. I open the electronic floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Except that Communism is an ideal dream that ignores basic facts of human nature. It only works if everyone overcomes selfishness/etc and works for the good of everyone. Otherwise, those people who don't do that will exploit it and the whole system collapses into a dictatorship by another name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveme4whoiam Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 As did happen in the USSR, China, Cuba... Yes, i'll admit that Communism has a pretty bad name for itself, but what i really mean is Marxist theory. He believed that as a country evolved, it would change through different types of society. I don't have the notes on what these actually break down into, but there is a period of about 200-300 years of technological and sociological evolution before Marxism is supposed to come into effect, dring which time i would hope that Mankind as a whole had accepted that people are different. I realise that is alot to hope for but that is why i chose the topic title; a Perfect Society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnoc Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Yeah, you are absolutely right, Peregrin. There is nothing wrong with the principle of communism itself, it is a very good principle. But it will never work, because it is not possible for humans (at least for most humans). So, what is the perfect society? I myself think it will be a mixture of everything. The perfect society will take any good idea and put it into their system. So the perfect society will be the synthesis of all the good things in the ideologies and systems today. The perfect society will respect and care for nature (because otherwise this society won't exist long). The perfect society will have equal rights for every person and will have an ideology teaches respect for every human being. The perfect society will have a governmental system which makes it impossible for a group or one person to take over power by any legal way. The perfect society will have any problem of poverty and classes solved, all persons will be happy and content with their lives, because the basic needs for every human being will be provided. The perfect society will have an efficent system of work; you'll get the job you are made for and that you are good at (so no one can get a job which isn't suited for him). It doesn't depend where you were born or who your parents were, it depends only on your abilities and your will to work. Anything else I did forget? Just add it to the list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Perfect for whom? Unless and until everyone wants the same thing it is impossible. So from a debating point of you we need to identify how we are going to get everyone to want the same things. Or find a way to make it so that they do not object if they can't have what they do want. I shall have to consider how that might be achieved. I will return with ideas - if any come to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Actually - this has been discussed before :P http://mwsource.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1675 And because I'm too lazy (and busy) to type it all out again, I'm quoting my post from that thread here: In a perfect world everybody would accept responsibility for their own actions, rather than blame society, or the government, for all their problems, or rely on some benevolent deity to make everything all right. In a perfect world we would consider the long-term consequences before we act In a perfect world we would overcome the tribalism that has plagued humankind since its beginnings, and stop creating artificial barriers between us. In a perfect world we would develop the ability to empathize with one another In a perfect world we would realize how shallow the pursuit of material wealth is and devote more time to developing as persons, to be all we can be. And in a perfect world everybody would have the opportunity to fulfil their potential. In a perfect world everybody would be able to laugh at themselves But I have to agree with Malchik - everyone's vision of Utopia is different. What one person would consider paradise would be hell to others. Who's to decide what is perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnoc Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Of course everyone has a different way of thinking about paradise. But there are several characteristics on which almost every human being could agree to. And by those characteristics shared by almost all humans the perfect society is determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 ...And what might these charachteristics be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveme4whoiam Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Actually - this has been discussed before :P Oops, my mistake. Anyway, blatantly ignoring that fact... Those characteristics would include compassion for other humans beings; since we lack it at the moment, i'd hope we'd have realised that its getting us nowhere at the moment. An appreciation for differences, and an acceptance of them. I'm not sure how well that might work, since while one person might enjoy, for example, cannibalism, it might be hard for society to accept it. I'm desperately trying to think of an answer to Malchik's post. I suppose, perfect for society as a whole, rather than the individual, since if it was perfect for me and me alone, i'd have clones of Jeri Ryan covered in honey dancing across the globe.. but enough about that :blush: So, society as a whole. To move this on, i'll open this up to how we will make this perfect world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltiraaz Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Last time this was brought up there was alot of "confusion" on my beliefs concerning the perfect society. ^_^ I really do hate hate hate hate having to drag religion into this but its a key part of my idealistic society. :( I am what is generally called a Christian Anarchist. I believe that the closest thing we can achieve to heaven on earth is the complete abolishment of all physical governments. Even the church. :o This is what most people had problems with last time, so this time I will try to explain myself and my beliefs to you with as little confusion as possible. Theres a difference between the Church, and Christianity. Christiany, or even Catholicism, does not (or rather; should not) depend on the existence of the Church. I am not a Catholic. I am a non-Orthodox Christian. I believe in the Bible, not being a literal truth but a metaphorical one. I do believe that Jesus lived and walked the earth, died, ascended into heaven blah blah blah all the boring stuff whatever. You may not see how this relates to government (or lack thereof) so let me explain it. The only way for you to see my point of view is to just pretend your a Christian. I dont mean all that praying the rosary 7 times a day, with your fingers and toes crossed mumbo-jumbo that catholics invent in a vain effort to keep themselves from being damned. I mean just believing that Jesus was the son of God and trying to live a good life. If we belive in God in the rules he set out for us then theres no need for a government. Now this could never ever work in a world like the one we live in for obvious reasons, much alike the ones that make marxism unfeasible (human nature, the fact that not everyone truly truly believes. etc and so forth). So I dont expect this ideal to ever be realized, but I am answering your questions, and giving my opinion. No anti-religious flames please this is my view and I would like it respected, as would all you I'm sure Eltiraaz PS - you really dont understand how much I hate having to drag faith into this. my apologies. :( EDIT - the above post was not posted when I began to write this post :S I apologize if it is now considered OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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