Area 51- Nuclear War- Cover up?

[Marxist ßastard]

See, and that's exactly what they want you to think. Disinformation. Poisoning the well.

[SubjectProphet]

I am actually wondering how many people here are serious now.

 

I am. I actually look at the facts.

[ita]

http://i.imgur.com/CTbBV.gif

[Lisnpuppy]

I am very close to closing this thread. The sarcasm needs to go. If you can not post a decent argument or rebuttal then go elsewhere. One liners are really not helpful, Marharth. Marxist you already have 2 strikes and your posts are just shy of getting your last. I see no reason for you to comment on what you think people know or don't know in such a condescending manner....and yes it was.. Debate what they say not what you think they know.~Lisnpuppy

[SubjectProphet]

Well... I guess that's what I get for trying to start a debate.

 

Until that comment I did not consider you an issue. There was nothing wrong with you starting a debate topic. I would suggest next time you narrow the debate points down a bit.

I offer you the option of getting this back on track or having me shut it down. ~Lisnpuppy

[Dragonspyre]

*sigh* :dry:

 

If I may weigh in, I'll put down some pretty simple pieces of information, most of which is reiteration on what is already known.

 

First off, Area 51 is actually really boring. Moronic people tend to take "Top secret" as something wildly blown out of proportion, making simply nonsensical and puerile claims in a baffling and surquedous manner. The realistic explanation, and the true one at that, is that not only do normal people need to know about most secret stuff (Which would really just bore them to death), but also that telling every security secret we have would only give our enemies time to prepare better against these things. Espionage would really be a joke, then. Somehow, the idea of a realistic explanation for withheld information is secret alien experimentation, nuclear war strategies, and UFO harboring.

 

First off, there is a reason there were "UFO" crashes. UFO means, as we all know, unidentified flying object. Honestly, YOU try identifying some of the stuff that crashes. When crashes happen, it's never in a neat little pile. It's a hellish scrap pile. As well, even if they do identify it, what do you honestly expect they'd say if it WAS a top secret plane? Whatever they call it, crazies would ask why massive amounts of planes are being tested, and would panic and assume we are on the brink of war.

 

As for UFO sightings, it's fairly hard to miss B2 Bomber drones with several million candlepower lighting way up in the sky.

 

As for the miles of underground terrain, ever consider it might be a BUNKER? You know... if one of our enemies decides to nuke the place?

[SubjectProphet]

*sigh* :dry:

 

If I may weigh in, I'll put down some pretty simple pieces of information, most of which is reiteration on what is already known.

 

First off, Area 51 is actually really boring. Moronic people tend to take "Top secret" as something wildly blown out of proportion, making simply nonsensical and puerile claims in a baffling and surquedous manner. The realistic explanation, and the true one at that, is that not only do normal people need to know about most secret stuff (Which would really just bore them to death), but also that telling every security secret we have would only give our enemies time to prepare better against these things. Espionage would really be a joke, then. Somehow, the idea of a realistic explanation for withheld information is secret alien experimentation, nuclear war strategies, and UFO harboring.

 

First off, there is a reason there were "UFO" crashes. UFO means, as we all know, unidentified flying object. Honestly, YOU try identifying some of the stuff that crashes. When crashes happen, it's never in a neat little pile. It's a hellish scrap pile. As well, even if they do identify it, what do you honestly expect they'd say if it WAS a top secret plane? Whatever they call it, crazies would ask why massive amounts of planes are being tested, and would panic and assume we are on the brink of war.

 

As for UFO sightings, it's fairly hard to miss B2 Bomber drones with several million candlepower lighting way up in the sky.

 

As for the miles of underground terrain, ever consider it might be a BUNKER? You know... if one of our enemies decides to nuke the place?

 

The Underground bunkers were made to work without intrude during the Cold War, when the Soviets were free to see what we were doing and vise-versa. We went underground so they didn't see anything.

 

And A51 is for testing air craft and high grade explosives from time to time. We tested the atomic bombs we dropped on Japan in A51. Our most advanced tech comes from A51, so no doubt there is something going on in there. That's why there are so many theories there.

[Syco21]

If it really was a extremely secret base you wouldn't know it existed.

Except that it's a bit hard to hide the world's longest runway and miles upon miles of base. They tried. It didn't work out so well. It was an extremely secretive base, and may still be extremely secretive. They just couldn't hide the top of the base in the information age. It's pretty much impossible. But that doesn't mean that they don't still hide quite a bit there. We know that it's used for aircraft testing and that it used to be used for weapons testing. But again, that can be seen. So they can't really hide it. That old phrase scratching the surface comes to mind. :tongue:

 

First, what reason would the Government have to hide nuclear missile sites? Neither the launch sites, nor the manufacturing site are a big secret, and you could probably find them on Google Earth with the help of Wikipedia. I actually managed to find a nuclear missile assembly plant in Texas with the help of Wikipedia, so they're not really any big secret. Francis E. Warren Air Force Base is one of three strategic nuclear missile bases.

Because if our 'enemies' knew were all our silos were, they'd be targets? Go ahead and catalog every single location of every single land based nuclear weapon. I'll wait.

 

The facts are that the government has a history of hiding nuclear silos. They were hidden on farms, in faux towns and in the middle of the desert. There's no reason to believe that they wouldn't keep at least some silos hidden even today.

[sukeban]

As far as nuclear silos go, they are largely irrelevant in the era of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs). Back in the days, keeping them concealed might have been all-important, but now when we've got essentially stealth submarines and the Strategic Air Command flying around... they really are more of an anachronism than anything else. Still, I think (emphasis on "think") that our current strategic doctrine remains on the three-legged stool or whatever they called it back in the day, involving the the maintenance of submarines, silos, and long-range bombers. Point being, silos are still kept around because they are "hardened" vis-a-vis submarines and airplanes, meaning that they can theoretically absorb a direct nuclear impact and still launch their retaliatory barrage, which keeps MAD and game-theoretical approaches to nuclear war intact. It doesn't much matter if their locations are known, only that they are built far enough underground so that they are able to fulfill their duties, morbid as they are.

 

I will now reveal myself as sort of a crank and say that I definitely do believe in aliens and that, no, contrary to most other positions that I take, I can't really back that up so well with solid evidence. I will conveniently then blame this on the government :). Area 51 probably is some testing ground for exotic DARPA pet-projects and terrifying aerospace technologies. And probably more banal things like radiological devices and poisons (though I think that most of that goes down at Ft. Dietrich, Maryland...). I remember reading some story not that long ago about some insane cancers and diseases that ex-employees at Area 51 had come down with over the years, things that the government were denying and then refusing to pay for. So they are definitely working with some highly dangerous, highly sketchy materials. That doesn't mean aliens, though.

 

I find myself somewhat torn between the two camps of "aliens exist--but far, far away" and Fox Mulder-style "the truth is out there..." dogma regarding global conspiracies to suppress the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life. My head says that the former is FAR more likely (a la Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking), but my heart says that we're totally not being told the truth. I don't really know what would happen on Earth if it were revealed that intelligent alien life existed (and that it had visited us here). Certainly, the monotheistic religions would be exploded, which would lead to... instability, to say the least; but I am not sure that a government wouldn't view that as a rather convenient turn of events rather than as a threat? Then they could really kick off the whole "United Earth Directorate" schtick and start to prove the right-wing "New World Order" conspiracy guys correct (minus the parts about the Illuminati/snakemen, of course...). Trade liberty for a united human front against unknown, potentially hostile aliens? I would think that many governments would welcome that with open arms. We already have more or less done this with the Cold War and with "terrorism." I don't know... except to know that I definitely am sounding like a crank. Which I am, actually, pretty okay with.

Edited March 25, 2012 by sukeban

[Syco21]

I remember reading some story not that long ago about some insane cancers and diseases that ex-employees at Area 51 had come down with over the years, things that the government were denying and then refusing to pay for. So they are definitely working with some highly dangerous, highly sketchy materials. That doesn't mean aliens, though.

That's kind of what happens when you work in a lake bed that's been nuked a few hundred times then used for toxic waste dumping.