Israel and its Neighbors

[Harbringe]

Israel is the only nation currently directly involved in colonization of another country.

They're not the only ones. China has been doing its fair share in Tibet for decades.

 

Yes I would agree with that , though except for the initial invasion of Tibet not nearly as brutal as what is occurring in Israel . Besides its America subsidizing Israel to the tune of 3 billion a year , you would think that would give them some pull to influence Israeli actions , China on the other hand is subsidizing America to tune of 100's of billions a year ,kinda hard to complain against the hand that is feeding you.

I don't know...I've read tales of things like the chemical sterilization of Tibetan women, etc., plus mass Chinese immigration, to effectively wipe out the Tibetans as a race. I don't think that's going on in the Middle East.

Oh I'm not saying its good for the Tibetans but if I had a choice where in Tibet as long as I kept out of trouble I might be able to get along vs being trapped in the Gaza Strip while F-16's are dropping 1000 lbs bombs or being in the West Bank where I'm watching the walls they've built around my village move closer and closer , I would choose Tibetan.

I think the Israel-US ties go far deeper than the US's love for Made in China or even the fact that the US hands out billions to the Israelis. There is obviously more to it because the accounts don't add up. There have to be "higher powers", in banking, weapons, whatever (Rockefellers, Bilderbergers, Rothschilds, what have you) that are obviously calling the shots (pun intended). Otherwise, the sums don't add up.

That I would agree wholeheartedly , it just doesn't add up.

[grannywils]

Well, Harbringe I'm not so sure about that choice. But the point is we both have that choice while neither the Tibetans nor the Palestinians do. So we can discuss it until we turn the pretty shade of blue you chose (did you steal that from me, btw? :tongue: , think I used to use that one... ), but we have not walked a mile in anyone else's moccasins...

[dazzerfong]

I don't know, I've been to Tibet and, thanks to my HK passport, was allowed to apply for a 'free' permit to Tibet (ie. 'free' as in 'you don't need an escort (not the prostitute kind :)) to guide you around). It's not as oppressive as people think, sure, there's the occasional curfew, but nothing as extreme as the media puts it (ie. widespread hatred of Chinese: Tibetans actually like us for some reason........)

 

Anyway, back to Israel. Due to the sensitive nature of its inception, I'll avoid talking about it, and postulate a question: if Israel was to stop expanding, would the countries around it continue to attack Israel? That's the heart of the issue: expansionism, and the Arabic countries blame it on that, whereas Israel blame it on anti-Semitism.

 

Why, though, is anti-Semitism that widespread? I get sinophobia (sure, I look a lot different and think different to my Caucasian 'brothers' :)) but why hate Semites?

Edited April 8, 2012 by dazzerfong

[Harbringe]

I don't know, I've been to Tibet and, thanks to my HK passport, was allowed to apply for a 'free' permit to Tibet (ie. 'free' as in 'you don't need an escort (not the prostitute kind :)) to guide you around). It's not as oppressive as people think, sure, there's the occasional curfew, but nothing as extreme as the media puts it (ie. widespread hatred of Chinese: Tibetans actually like us for some reason........)

 

Anyway, back to Israel. Due to the sensitive nature of its inception, I'll avoid talking about it, and postulate a question: if Israel was to stop expanding, would the countries around it continue to attack Israel? That's the heart of the issue: expansionism, and the Arabic countries blame it on that, whereas Israel blame it on anti-Semitism.

 

Why, though, is anti-Semitism that widespread? I get sinophobia (sure, I look a lot different and think different to my Caucasian 'brothers' :)) but why hate Semites?

 

Before anyone answers that look up Semitic peoples , then ask yourselves what is it to be anti-semitic.

[Ghogiel]

Anti Semitism is old as the hills. I guess it's several reasons. One of the ones that spawned during the middle ages was the Jewish money lender. Orthodox Christianity basically outlawed Christians from lending money to each other... oh but it was ok if they were a Jew. So for a very long time Jews kinda just fell into the money lending business in a Christain dominated Europe. Fast forward to when the papacy or some other aristocrate needs some extra money... ah! Jews. Happened a bunch of times.

 

Apparently they as a people, are blamed for killing Jesus as well. :teehee:

 

I'm sure we can make a huge list of reasons, for a laugh is about all it'll be good for.

[ginnyfizz]

History point here as well, Ghogiel is right to a point but it went further than that. The Jews were, in the Middle Ages, in many countries including England, banned from owning any real estate, and some other physical assets, so that's how they ended dealing in money, because it is more or less all they were allowed to do at times. Some got away with being merchants. Ultimately they were forcibly expelled from England and just about every other country in Europe at some point in the Middle Ages.

 

The "blood libel" held against the Jews also went beyond being accused of killing Jesus and was stoked up by rumours that they used the blood of non Jewish children in the Passover rituals, leading to pogroms in medieval and more recent times.

 

So, whilst not excusing some of the policies of the Israeli government, we shouldn't be surprised that the Jews wanted a homeland, nor that they wanted it in the historic land of Israel, nor that they are prepared to defend it stoutly.

 

Thankyou Harbringe, I am well aware that the Arabs are also a Semitic people.

 

And no, dazzerfong, I don't believe that if Israel were to stop her expansionist policies that the Arabs would stop attacking. Sadly the aim of many of the Palestinian groups (you'll find them if you look hard enough)is to drive the Jews into the sea and obliterate Israel.

[WizardOfAtlantis]

The Jews were, in the Middle Ages, in many countries including England, banned from owning any real estate, and some other physical assets, so that's how they ended dealing in money, because it is more or less all they were allowed to do at times.

Yep, that's where the term bankrupt comes from. Since they weren't allowed to own property, they would set up business on a "bank", a plank, like a wooden board/seat. When they were shut down, their boards/banks were broken. "Rupt". So, bank-rupt. (In Italian, it's clearer to understand, as in English, rupt is more archaic. Italian_bancarotta, rotta is still current Italian for broken).

I agree, too, on the whole expansion thing, too. Even if Israel were to stop expanding, the Arabs would not ever, imo, stop wanting to take back "what was theirs". That particular attitude, to me, shows a "limited attention span" as Jewish claims to the land go back thousands of years, and theirs certainly don't.

[Ghogiel]

Even if they did stop expanding, no one would believe it was permanent...They have a long way to go to claim what the promised land is supposed to be. People I know have told me the blue lines on the flag represent the Nile and Euphrates. Also the description in Genesis/Exodus does put the borders right up in there.

 

So nah, even if they stopped expanding.. no one would believe it would last for ever. And all the animosity with neighbours would still smoulder away.

 

To be be fair, any neighbour of Israel should be worried since they are claiming your countries land as their holy right. I'm not surprised at the mess.

[moonlightbaaae]

We all know Israel Balls So Hard. Many Americans, for some reason, is not in favor of that small, awesome nation. Really through out its history it took invasions outnumbered 4 to 1 and came out on top. I know Israeli people some are close friends and its the only country, in my opinion, in that region that does good.

[dazzerfong]

@ KSI:

 

I strongly disagree. Whereas most conflicts in the Middle East were internal, Israel's presence surely angered them enough to start waging war at another. Two rights do not correct a wrong.

 

And it won invasions 'outnumbered 4 to 1' because they had American support (ie. F-14's anyone?).