Shakkara Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 ^ that's gonna illicit a BUNCH of flaming, I assure you. But, then again, you didn't bother to answer any of the other points made by our master debater, Perigrine. I answered everything, and Perigrine misread a lot of my stuff. Hardly a master debater. I pray I never have to set foot on that accursed piece of earth myself. Well, if you ever do, and things actually get as bad as you mention, then a mugger will rob you as soon as you get off the plane, shooting you on sight, stealing all of your clothing and money. Believe me, It is much worse elsewhere. And I would know because I actually have the balls to experiance it myself instead of writing things out of hatred for a nation that works for both good and evil.Just look again at those little gun-related crime stats for instance. OT: quit putting in EDITING QUOTES to distract us, It isnt gonna help your hatered win any hearts and minds. Not even our "super powerful, evil" U.S. can win hearts and mindsIt's not to distract you, it's because there is no other effective way of inserting my own text in the middle of someone else's post. I much rather have quoted text appear in my reply box instead so I can edit it directly. Edit:Since neither Perigrine nor Luxar have been active for over 15 minutes I am going to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Just look again at those little gun-related crime stats for instance ooh..LITTLE gun-related crimes. Exactly. Little, as in they don't really characterize a nation. THEY DON"T MATTER! they don't have any effect over wether we go and get oil out of Iraq or not. EDIT: I suggest, Shakkara, that you look again at page 2. there is something you might have missed in that last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakkara Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Just look again at those little gun-related crime stats for instance ooh..LITTLE gun-related crimes. Exactly. Little statistics. Proper interpretation is an art, is it not? Now off sleep. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Of The Cheese Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 it's soaring crime rates and what proof of "soaring" do you have? http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htmit is either not compiled or i couldnt find it for a statistic more recient, but i do believe that is a DOWNward trend... Just look again at those little gun-related crime stats for instance. An statistics on other murderous deaths including other nations? (i personally dont know what they are) and what about deaths by dictators and such which is secretive and not reported?hmm...someUS homicide rates...http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html(downward...) The biggest traitors to the world. ok so the US is a traitor, doesnt this: There are a couple of things you can do: Leave your country. Go protesting or organize protests. Stop paying taxes (best to get a group together to do this first). Spread information about the crimes your leaders commit. sound slightly traitorous also? given Traitor-One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I answered everything, and Perigrine misread a lot of my stuff. Hardly a master debater. I understand perfectly well what you're trying to say. The problem is that your claims are the mindless delusions of a rabid anti-American fanatic. Selfishness and egocentrism is no excuse. Except that it is not just an excuse, but the duty of a nation. A nation/government's first duty is to take care of its citizens. Idealistic dreams like "make the world a better place" are a distant second. Glad to see your self-interest outweights your concience. No, my sanity outweighs my conscience. Only an idiot would throw away a good life to make a defiant protest like that. And why INVADE mainland Japan in the first place? This lame excuse is brought up over and over, but the fact is, that there was no reason to, since Japan was beaten already. The US just had some new toys and couldn't wait to test them out. WRONG. Do you even read history, or just skim it for "America is evil" quotes? Take a look at Japan's unprovoked attack on the US. Take a look at the Japanese military fighting to the death to destroy us. That kind of fanatacism isn't going to change if you show mercy. All leaving Japan "beaten" would accomplish is to give them time to recover their military strength and prepare another attack. And there are plenty of other instances of the US attacking non-military targets to get a few militants, if that. I just gave a few famous examples. Vietnam? Korea? Take a look at the key point there. Even as badly run as those wars were, civilian casualties were an unfortunate side effect of the war. A terrorist aims for civilian targets, intending to maximize innocent deaths. Where does it say terrorists HAVE TO attack/threaten only civilians? Plus, the US simply has the luxury to cause fear in other ways besides blowing up a few innocents. The people that you call terrorists have NOT got those means. Yes, the poor misunderstood terrorists have no choice but to murder innoncent people who have nothing to do with their cause.... Last time I checked the US was more then happy to have Puppet Saddam fighting the evil Iran for them. Where was the US when Saddam attacked those Kurds? Oh, little background info. The Kurds were actively supporting Iran during that war, and were carrying out terrorist and guerillia attacks on Iraqi targets (civilian and otherwise). Saddam gassed that village in retaliation. No-one in our so-called civilized world gave a poo at that time, hmm? CONCESSION ACCEPTED. Saddam in power was a bad thing, as you have shown yourself. The fact that the US made a mistake in the past does not mean that they have to let a bad situation continue. And as for their support of Saddam years ago, did you ever think of the possibility that at the time Saddam was the lesser of the two evils? Let me get it again:"Def of Terrorism:The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, OFTEN for ideological or political reasons." Guess you missed the 'often'. And it was a threat to use violence intended to intimidate/coerce, was it not? Translation: by the commonly accepted definition of terrorism, I am wrong. But hey, I can word-lawyer my way into making it fit! I never concede, since I am always right. Arguing with me is pointless. Because you're a blind, rabid anti-American fanatic who sees only the truth he wants to see. =========================================== Plenty of family members and friends have been there multiple times, and I pray I never have to set foot on that accursed piece of earth myself. Translation: I don't know for myself what I'm talking about, but if I hear enough bad rumors America must be evil! Absolute bull. Better of then people in slums (in case they find work they will work to death for a slave wager), yes, that's what I can agree on. But they sure haven't got a better life then people that still live independantly there, such as village farmers (which do not work for mulitnationals) or even the old tribes still living like hundreds of years ago, for instance. Absolute bull is exactly right. How do you think some village farmer is better off than even the poor end of American society? Oh wait, I forgot, things like life expectancy, good medical care, enough money for more than just a minimum amount of food, and not having to work desperately to survive are FAR less important than being free of evil corporate domination. Unwillingness to share wealth, people having to pay for healthcare, insanely long prison sentances (unless for extreme cases, maximum sentance here is 15 years, for your knowledge), exploitation of the rest of the world by multinationals, people able to sue eachother's ass off, pollution, corporate and governmental corruption, and I can probably think of plenty of other things if I was in the mood. So because there are a few bad laws, America is not a civilized nation? ANY nation has its flaws. Why don't you tell us exactly where you find this perfection you expect from America. Sorry, we use something like 'welfare-related-diseased' here and it doesn't translate well. It refers to fat or cholestorol-based illnesses and such things, usually caused by eating too much or too unhealty things or living unhealthy due to other reasons, causing heart or kidney failure or bloodveins getting messed up. Of course, since it's government policy that everyone has to do these things. Here's some unpleasant news for your delusions, true freedom includes the freedom to make bad decisions. As for cancer, that occurs much more in 'western' nations then other nations. Wouldn't surprise me if radiation caused by cellphones, electromagnetic disturbances caused by electrical equipment or powerlines, or GM food / hormones in meat increase the risks of getting it. You're right. In America you get cancer and you might die. Elsewhere in the world you get "evil spirits" and you die before anyone recognizes and treats it. And even if ever word you say is true, I'll gladly take a small increase in cancer risk for all the benefits of electicity. ============================================= Just look again at those little gun-related crime stats for instance. You're right, we're such a primitive society. We use guns instead of other weapons to commit our crimes. Guns aren't the only way to kill someone you know.... And interesting that despite our gun and violence filled society, I have never been involved in a gun-related crime of any kind, and neither has anyone else I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxar Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Well, if you ever do, and things actually get as bad as you mention, then a mugger will rob you as soon as you get off the plane, shooting you on sight, stealing all of your clothing and money. Believe me, It is much worse elsewhere. And I would know because I actually have the balls to experiance it myself instead of writing things out of hatred for a nation that works for both good and evil.Just look again at those little gun-related crime stats for instance. Let's see....in the year 2002(the last officially recorded year), violent crime rates(yes all of them, not just gun-related) in the United States hit their LOWEST RATE EVER. Yes...we are such a horrible nation, maybe we should start killing more, right?Justice Department:http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm And just to show that the U.S. is not a horrible violence-consumed nation, I randomly took other countries crime statistics as well. New Zealand, for example, has seen a 99% increase in violent crimes since 1953. Violence is clearly a global thing, not solely entrenched in Americahttp://www.safe-nz.org.nz/statsgraph.htm Here is another, Singapore. You will have to click on the left hand side(statistics) to reach the correct area of the site. They are also having an UPWARD trend in crime.http://www.spinet.gov.sg/ Clearly, your views of America are VERY biased, skewed, false, and confused. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 People say we spend all this money on war and not on peace...well, we spend more on other things. As a matter of fact, we spend only about 3% of our budget on warfare enterprises. Take that into account with North Korea, which spends 53% (Or ther abouts) on warfare enterprises. And they have people starving in their country! We don't! And they have a horrible dictator! and we DON'T!!! and you say that WE are horrible? please! save your blindly-guided hatred for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I am afraid that I must defend myself as an American Citizen and my best friend who is in the Marines. I condoned the fact that my best friend decided to go into the Marines. Since he runs the extreme chance of being sent over to some little 3rd world poo hole that isn't worth the tax-payers money, and yet we have to pay in the blood of our family members and loved ones. Shakkara Posted: Feb 23 2004, 04:08 PM If you're a soldier in your cowardly army I might call you a terrorist though. Shakkara, what gives you the right to judge my friend, labeling him as a terrorist, he whom you have never met? What gives you the right to judge me as an American, lumping me alongside my Administration (that I do not support) when you have never met me? I may agree with you that America has done horrible things that are to be ashamed of, and that there are no greater hypocrits on this planet than us, but when you attack and judge the quality of my friend and myself... Have you no shame? Have you no decency? I say, before you judge you should at least know or have a good idea about whom you are judging . ~A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakkara Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I'll try to get some stats on crime later, am at work now and don't have time for that. The biggest traitors to the world. ok so the US is a traitor, doesnt this: There are a couple of things you can do: Leave your country. Go protesting or organize protests. Stop paying taxes (best to get a group together to do this first). Spread information about the crimes your leaders commit. sound slightly traitorous also? given Traitor-One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason. Your leaders are enemies of the people of the US, and of the world. Supporting them is both betrayal to your country, and the world. Therefore peaceful civil disobedience is a good tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakkara Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I answered everything, and Perigrine misread a lot of my stuff. Hardly a master debater. I understand perfectly well what you're trying to say. The problem is that your claims are the mindless delusions of a rabid anti-American fanatic. And your claims are selfish and egocentrical delusions, ignorant to the global misery the US causes. And I am not JUST anti-US. I can have a go like this at plenty of other nations, like Israel, China, or even Russia and Australia for example. Selfishness and egocentrism is no excuse.Except that it is not just an excuse, but the duty of a nation. A nation/government's first duty is to take care of its citizens. Idealistic dreams like "make the world a better place" are a distant second. Good way of pointing out your nation lacks morals. To oppress and impoverize other nations is not justified by increasing the wealth of a few. Glad to see your self-interest outweights your concience.No, my sanity outweighs my conscience. Only an idiot would throw away a good life to make a defiant protest like that.A good life indirectly at the expense of others. And why INVADE mainland Japan in the first place? This lame excuse is brought up over and over, but the fact is, that there was no reason to, since Japan was beaten already. The US just had some new toys and couldn't wait to test them out. WRONG. Do you even read history, or just skim it for "America is evil" quotes? Take a look at Japan's unprovoked attack on the US. Take a look at the Japanese military fighting to the death to destroy us. That kind of fanatacism isn't going to change if you show mercy. All leaving Japan "beaten" would accomplish is to give them time to recover their military strength and prepare another attack.The Japanese were already preparing negotiations for peace, and military leaders were planning to bypass the emperor. Just a few more months and it would have been over for sure. I guess you never read history. And there are plenty of other instances of the US attacking non-military targets to get a few militants, if that. I just gave a few famous examples. Vietnam? Korea? Take a look at the key point there. Even as badly run as those wars were, civilian casualties were an unfortunate side effect of the war. A terrorist aims for civilian targets, intending to maximize innocent deaths.Already answered in my previous post in the statement below. Where does it say terrorists HAVE TO attack/threaten only civilians? Plus, the US simply has the luxury to cause fear in other ways besides blowing up a few innocents. The people that you call terrorists have NOT got those means.Yes, the poor misunderstood terrorists have no choice but to murder innoncent people who have nothing to do with their cause....I do not approve of their tactics, but if they choose to resort to violence, civilians are the only thing they can target, they lack the equipment for a direct military confrontation. Last time I checked the US was more then happy to have Puppet Saddam fighting the evil Iran for them. Where was the US when Saddam attacked those Kurds? Oh, little background info. The Kurds were actively supporting Iran during that war, and were carrying out terrorist and guerillia attacks on Iraqi targets (civilian and otherwise). Saddam gassed that village in retaliation. No-one in our so-called civilized world gave a poo at that time, hmm?CONCESSION ACCEPTED. Saddam in power was a bad thing, as you have shown yourself. The fact that the US made a mistake in the past does not mean that they have to let a bad situation continue.Nice decoy. Now answer my statements. Concession accepted for not addressing the issues at hand.And as for their support of Saddam years ago, did you ever think of the possibility that at the time Saddam was the lesser of the two evils?And invading it now is the bigger of the two evils. Saddam was just a puppet for the US which INTERFERED in issues that wasn't their damn business. Let me get it again:"Def of Terrorism:The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, OFTEN for ideological or political reasons." Guess you missed the 'often'. And it was a threat to use violence intended to intimidate/coerce, was it not? Translation: by the commonly accepted definition of terrorism, I am wrong. But hey, I can word-lawyer my way into making it fit! YOU are the one twisting the definion around here by deliberately ignoring parts of it. You make it very hard for me not to compare your intellect and languistic skills with something else now. I never concede, since I am always right. Arguing with me is pointless.Because you're a blind, rabid anti-American fanatic who sees only the truth he wants to see. Pot calls kettle black. =========================================== Plenty of family members and friends have been there multiple times, and I pray I never have to set foot on that accursed piece of earth myself.Translation: I don't know for myself what I'm talking about, but if I hear enough bad rumors America must be evil! It aren't just rumours, and it aren't just people that went there for a vacation. I am talking about either Americans that moved to here, or people that have lived in the US for at least a year. Lunch break over, damn I can't believe I wasted half an hour on this filth. More this evening I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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