Nobel Peace Prize

[Breton Thief Oriana]

The Japanese were already preparing negotiations for peace, and military leaders were planning to bypass the emperor. Just a few more months and it would have been over for sure. I guess you never read history.

 

 

That is BS. We gave the japanese an ultimatum: Surrender or we drop the bomb. They didn't surrender. By the second one, we gave them the same ultimatum. They, again, didn't surrender, so to keep our word we had to drop another bomb. This is where we ran out of bombs. We still gave the ultimatum. If the Japanese hadn't surrenderd, the war would have dragged out further.

[Peregrine]

And your claims are selfish and egocentrical delusions, ignorant to the global misery the US causes.

And I am not JUST anti-US. I can have a go like this at plenty of other nations, like Israel, China, or even Russia and Australia for example.

 

So please, tell me who these innocent nations are that you admire so much. And I'm not blind to the trouble the US causes. There's a big difference between criticizing America's actions and calling us a 3rd world terrorist state. One is rational discussion, and one is blind fanatacism.

 

Good way of pointing out your nation lacks morals. To oppress and impoverize other nations is not justified by increasing the wealth of a few.

 

Are you really this ignorant of reality? Selfishness is a fact of life. Nations are created for selfish purposes. To govern their citizens, and to unite them in their own interest. A nation that can not take care of it's own people is worthless.

 

A good life indirectly at the expense of others.

 

Welcome to reality. EVERYONE who has a good life has it indirectly at the expense of others. You are no exception. You are a selfish hypocrite who wastes money on a computer (and countless other luxuries) that could be spent to buy food for poor people. Until you sacrifice everything in your good life at the expense of others, you have zero right to criticize anyone else for not doing the same.

 

The Japanese were already preparing negotiations for peace, and military leaders were planning to bypass the emperor. Just a few more months and it would have been over for sure. I guess you never read history.

 

Proof of these claims? Proof that the negotiations were serious, and not just a "maybe what if" situation? Proof that these negotiations were any more serious than the "peace" presented before their sneak attack on the US?

 

And most importantly, where is the proof that these intentions were known at the time by the people who decided to use the bombs?

 

I do not approve of their tactics, but if they choose to resort to violence, civilians are the only thing they can target, they lack the equipment for a direct military confrontation.

 

Then they should not resort to violence. Terrorism is absolutely evil and unjustified, NO MATTER WHAT THE CAUSE.

 

Nice decoy. Now answer my statements. Concession accepted for not addressing the issues at hand.

 

Ugh, can you really not see the point or are you just willfully ignoring it? You claim that America's actions in Iraq were completely against the "greater good of the world." As I claimed, and you agreed, Saddam in power was not a good thing. The world is far better off with him out of power.

 

And invading it now is the bigger of the two evils. Saddam was just a puppet for the US which INTERFERED in issues that wasn't their damn business.

 

How is leaving Saddam in power a good thing? Can you honestly say Iraq was better off with him in power?

 

 

YOU are the one twisting the definion around here by deliberately ignoring parts of it. You make it very hard for me not to compare your intellect and languistic skills with something else now.

 

What you are doing is clear word lawyering. The commonly accepted definition of terrorism refers to attacks on innocent victims to cause fear and promote a political/social cause. You're twisting it to fit something it shouldn't by using parts the most general definition.

 

 

Pot calls kettle black.

 

No, I'm a reasonable person, you're a rabid fanatic. I admit my country has flaws. But calling us a third world terrorist state is pure fanatacism.

 

It aren't just rumours, and it aren't just people that went there for a vacation. I am talking about either Americans that moved to here, or people that have lived in the US for at least a year.

 

Translation: I've talked to a few people who lived in America. They agree with me. Therefore there is only one conclusion, that my minority is right.

 

So please, give me a full explanation. How many people have you talked to? Where and when and for how long did they live here? Why did they leave? What exactly did they say?

 

And how many of them share your fanatic delusions, and how many of them simply stated much less fanatic criticism?

[Ancalagon]

Actually Breton Thief Oriana, we warned the Japanese by testing the bomb in New Mexico (or some other place, I cannot remember...) and since they didn't respond, or were too slow to respond, we leveled Hiroshima. Nagasaki should not have been hit, since the Japanese were working on surrender terms. Yet we were too impatient and dropped the second bomb anyways (about a day or two after Hiroshima). Thus the Japanese were force to surrender.

 

When FDR passed away, the Military and Government were still debating as to use these weapons on Japan or not. And so the decision fell to the new President, who wasn't even aware of the bombs' existance until he came into Office. Truman was faced with two choices: 1. A full scale invasion of Japan itself with hundreds of thousands of casualties on both sides (Iwo Jima was simply a taste of things to come, if we did indeed decide to mount a full-scale invasion).

 

OR

 

2.Give Japan an ultimatum and test an Atomic bomb, stating that a similar one would be used against them. If there is no reply, then we drop an Atomic Bomb on one of their cities and repeat the ultimatum, and if there is no reponse again...

 

The only problem with this decision was that Nagasaki being hit was completly unneccessary, the Japanese would have surrenderd if we had waited a little longer. Couple that with the fire-bombing of Tokyo (in which fire-storms created winds of up to 100 mph and created its own weather...) the Japanese were in no way willing to drag out the war after Hiroshima. Again, we never gave them a chance to reply after Hiroshima.

[Darnoc]

Guys, this discussion is heating up really bad. I hope you don't start killing yourselves eachother! Probably time for the coolheaded and reasonable oppinion of a citizen of Switzerland :D

 

Killing civilians is bad. No matter who does it, the person who kills people knowingly which can't defend themselves is evil. This counts for terrorists and governments. And when I count the dead, I must say that the USA causes much more pain and suffering than any terrorist organization on this world. But this is probably, because the USA has much more weapons, materials and people to use than the terrorist organizations. But still I think it is very hypocritical to say that someone is bad becaus he kills civilists (meaning the terrorists) and doing it yourself at the same time (meaning the US-government). It is also hypocritical to call someone evil because he possess WMD and possess those weapons at the same time. In fact, the USA calls people evil for actions the USA also commits. And at the same time the USA claims to be good. Hypocritical at worst. Acctually, the USA is even worse than those terrorists. Those terrorists come from poor countries and they fight for a better situation for their countries. They want to give us a message: "Look, we are still existing! So stop ignoring us! Stop sitting on your fat asses and living in your luxurious homes! You have the possibility to do something, then do it!" But the USA... The USA call themselves just and good. But even a child can tell that this is not the case when looking through the history of this nation, written with the blood of Indians, black people, Vietnamese people, South and Middle American people, African people and from almost every else on this planet. The Hands of the statue of liberty are stained with the blood of Millions and the US-government calls itself "good"! I probably have to get myself a dictionary and look if the word "good" has somehow changed its meaning!

 

What also makes me sad that it seems as if the life of a US-citizen or the life of an inhabitant of Europe is more important than the life e.g. a person from Africa. Threethousand American citizens are killed in a terrorist attack in the WTC. And because of these threethousand people the news are filled for months. Let me count: How many people did die through American weapons? Some millions probably? I personnally think that the attack on the WTC was poetic justice for the actions the USA commited in the past.

 

Now look how much noise they made about this war in Iraq. I think some people just forget that in Africa at the same time even more people died, they still die today. When I see huge articles in the newspaper "Ten people dead because of bomb attack in Bagdad" and then a little note "Thousands killed by child soldiers in Liberia" I can only shake my head on such a world. What have we become? To what end are we going? We are living on the fat of the land, the "slaves" of the third world are working themselves to death so that we can live in luxury. And do you know what the worst part of it is? We don't even care.

 

Are you really this ignorant of reality? Selfishness is a fact of life. Nations are created for selfish purposes. To govern their citizens, and to unite them in their own interest. A nation that can not take care of it's own people is worthless.

 

This is a sad fact. And I will prophezize you now something: Nothing, really nothing is going to change until we change this selfish attitude of ourselfs. Selfishness is the curse of humanity. Instead of working together for the greater good of all human beings, we are destroying eachother. I have little hope that this will change in the future. That is why I do not believe in an utopic future. In the end we will destroy ourselves. Sooner or later. Unless some wonder happens, of course. But when not, I do not see any hope for most of humanity. But then again, I see some people who live without selfishness and this gives me hope again. Perhaps, perhaps... The problem is not the politic or economic system, the religion or whatever. It should be human selfishness that we fight. This is the problem.

 

Welcome to reality. EVERYONE who has a good life has it indirectly at the expense of others. You are no exception. You are a selfish hypocrite who wastes money on a computer (and countless other luxuries) that could be spent to buy food for poor people. Until you sacrifice everything in your good life at the expense of others, you have zero right to criticize anyone else for not doing the same.

 

Again, a sad but entirely true fact. Problem is, if I just throw every thing away, this won't help anything at all. It would help, for example, if Bush would spend the money of his government on doing something about the mass-poverty in the USA instead on wars. But humans are selfish and they will do anything to get their hands on power. And most of them do not care at all, most of them only care about themselves.

 

That is why no one, really no one should be allowed to have the amount of power the president of the USA possess. Everyone with power must be controlled again by someone else. This may slow down things a little, but in the end it makes it almost impossible for someone to take over power. Also a political active population helps a lot. Look at Switzerland. We are living perfectly without a president or any other such powerful institution. In our nation, the population has more rights than in any other nation. And it works. I don't know anyone who wishes it to be different. And neither do I. We have lots of parties, there isn't really a major party which could rule the whole government. We do have a lot of different oppinions, and sometimes (like in the last votings) the people do not agree with the government. This is how it should be. No one can take controll, no one can take power. Because there are so much different positions and oppinions that everyone is looking at the other and tries to do everything that the other don't receive too much power. OK, they are talking and discussing a lot and it takes a long time for something to happen, but at least in the end the money is not spent on such idiotic stuff like weapons or wars. Do you know a state in which there was a voting to abolish the army? It didn't pass, but still it shows something: We can live without wars and such other stupid things. Switzerland always tries to make peace and to negotiate between different parties.

 

It may look a little stupid to jugde other nations from our little nation. You probably will say that the USA has a much bigger burden on its shoulder, a much greater responsible. This may be true, but I think, also Switzerland has a responsibility, a very important one: We show the world how it could be. Sad fact is that almost no one follows our example. Austria is one of those. Germany comes near to it. But that is it.

 

So, I stop praising my beloved homeland and let you go on with killing eachother about the subject under discussion. And as a typical Swiss, I will get out of those matters and stay neutral :D (and when all the others have killed eachother, we will come out and say "Tststs, why didn't you listen to us!" and then we go and live on the remains and make a better world. With a direct democracy, of course. And of course with absolute neutrality. Oh, and did I forget the high taxes? The government needs the money... :D Well, we would just say to the bones lying around: "That comes when you meddle in the affairs of others! If you just had listened to us, you would be alive now!" :P :P :P )

[Luxar]

Killing civilians is bad. No matter who does it, the person who kills people knowingly which can't defend themselves is evil. This counts for terrorists and governments. And when I count the dead, I must say that the USA causes much more pain and suffering than any terrorist organization on this world. But this is probably, because the USA has much more weapons, materials and people to use than the terrorist organizations. But still I think it is very hypocritical to say that someone is bad becaus he kills civilists (meaning the terrorists) and doing it yourself at the same time (meaning the US-government). It is also hypocritical to call someone evil because he possess WMD and possess those weapons at the same time. In fact, the USA calls people evil for actions the USA also commits. And at the same time the USA claims to be good. Hypocritical at worst. Acctually, the USA is even worse than those terrorists. Those terrorists come from poor countries and they fight for a better situation for their countries. They want to give us a message: "Look, we are still existing! So stop ignoring us! Stop sitting on your fat asses and living in your luxurious homes! You have the possibility to do something, then do it!" But the USA... The USA call themselves just and good. But even a child can tell that this is not the case when looking through the history of this nation, written with the blood of Indians, black people, Vietnamese people, South and Middle American people, African people and from almost every else on this planet. The Hands of the statue of liberty are stained with the blood of Millions and the US-government calls itself "good"! I probably have to get myself a dictionary and look if the word "good" has somehow changed its meaning!

 

What also makes me sad that it seems as if the life of a US-citizen or the life of an inhabitant of Europe is more important than the life e.g. a person from Africa. Threethousand American citizens are killed in a terrorist attack in the WTC. And because of these threethousand people the news are filled for months. Let me count: How many people did die through American weapons? Some millions probably? I personnally think that the attack on the WTC was poetic justice for the actions the USA commited in the past.

 

Now look how much noise they made about this war in Iraq. I think some people just forget that in Africa at the same time even more people died, they still die today. When I see huge articles in the newspaper "Ten people dead because of bomb attack in Bagdad" and then a little note "Thousands killed by child soldiers in Liberia" I can only shake my head on such a world. What have we become? To what end are we going? We are living on the fat of the land, the "slaves" of the third world are working themselves to death so that we can live in luxury. And do you know what the worst part of it is? We don't even care.

Oh my...where to begin, o my o my. First of all, calling the U.S. government and their policies 'terrorist' is absurd. We'll take the current war in Iraq as an example, every other example is far in the past and no longer applies to any argument against the U.S.(ie telling us we suck because we had slaves). Ok...so you say that civilian casualties in Iraq make the war a terrorist action, or some such equivalent. These casualties, however, are ACCIDENTS, not purposely brought upon Iraqis to make them fear the U.S. The loss of Iraqi life(and American life), is a small cost compared to what we have saved them from in Saddam's regime. Have you ever heard of the People Factory Saddam's government created and was still using up until the war began? In this factory, they would simply take innocent Iraqis and FLATTEN THEM LIKE PANCAKES with giant rolling pins, JUST FOR FUN. They would also shred people in these factories, using a device that could be likened to a giant paper shredder. Clearly, America was completely justified in wanting to stop this madness, and yes, some civilians were killed in the process, but only for the greater GOOD.

 

And you can't possibly say terrorists are fighting to help their country. How did blowing up the World Trade Center help anybody? ANYBODY!? All it does is fuel fear and hatred, and the terrorists know it. Killing 3000 innocent Americans is not going to help topple oppresive regimes in the Middle East, or bring food to the terrorists' starving families. And I cannot see how you could be so blin to believe it would.

 

Also, the nobody believes that an American or European's life is more important than an African's. Its just because American deaths are so much closer to home, so much more personal, that they garner so much attention in their respective countries. I'd be willing to bet that local Libyan papers run big huge articles about their child soldiers killing people(that is, they would if their dictator would allow it), rather than talking about how some Americans have died in Iraq. That is simply because it is much less personal, and much less important to the reader.

 

I'm not even going to touch on the other things you talked about, as they don't truly pertain to this debate.

[Mojlnir]

Well, I had this really great post that was gonna piss everyone off but then my computer crashed and I lost it so I'll just post a little bit and rewrite later on.

 

Luxar, your argument is absurd and offensive. Your rabidly pro-American outlook blinds you to all validity that exists in other peoples arguments. For instance, Darnoc said Liberia, which is on the opposite side of the African continent from Libya which you cited, and pretty well proves his point at the same time.

 

Also, where in the name of everything holy did you come up with the People Factory? You HAVE to substantiate something like that, because people are not going to believe it. Stop making crap up, you just look pathetic.

 

Another point. You are arguing from a certain perspective and are absolutely incapable of moving beyond that point of view. Has it occured to you that the people in Iraq (because you choose to ignore history, which is very dangerous) do not see the bombings as "accidents"?

 

Darnoc, I agree that in many instances terrorist organizations are fighting for the betterment of their social position, but this not always the case and you must take care not to lump them all together. Al Qaeda is a non-state actor, which means that they are fighting for an ideal rather than a state, because they have no "state" of their own. They are the new breed of terrorist, those that hold fanatical ideals and are willing to sacrifice themselves and others to bring those ideals about.

 

Also, a note on the division of power with the US government. The president, in actuality, has less power than most people attribute to the office and if everyone would slow down and realize that, then we might have a lot less trouble. The president can declare war and send troops overs seas for 90 days (i think...either that of 60 days) and then Congress must declare war. Congress, in the Iraq situation, was scared of being called unpatriotic and in the post 9/11 confusion gave Bush carte blanche to do what he wanted. The abrogated their responsibility and bear a large portion of blame.

 

Peregrine, I think your arguments are strong but you are just as blinded by your rabid pro-Americanism as Shakkara (who also has some good points) is by his rabid anti-Americanism. Also, the poor withing this country have it as bad or worse than many other places. Visit an inner city ghetto or drive through a reservation before calling me an idiot. Reservations are living proof of the genocidal nature of our government. Corporate greed and out-of-control consumerism promotes obscene living and working conditions in many poor nations around the world. And, just to piss off the Europeans, where would you guys be if we didn't intervene in WWII? Yeah, I thought so.

[Peregrine]

Killing civilians is bad. No matter who does it, the person who kills people knowingly which can't defend themselves is evil. This counts for terrorists and governments. And when I count the dead, I must say that the USA causes much more pain and suffering than any terrorist organization on this world. But this is probably, because the USA has much more weapons, materials and people to use than the terrorist organizations. But still I think it is very hypocritical to say that someone is bad becaus he kills civilists (meaning the terrorists) and doing it yourself at the same time (meaning the US-government).

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Yes, the US government kills civilians. But those deaths are accidents, an unfortunate side effect of any war. Terrorists intentionally target innocent victims, whose only crime is being in a position to become an impressive victim.

 

It is also hypocritical to call someone evil because he possess WMD and possess those weapons at the same time.

 

Of course, ignore the fact that those weapons are under strict control where no single person could use them, far more so than Iraq or any terrorist organization. Ignore the fact that the US has used them exactly twice, and then only when there was no reasonable alternative. Ignore the fact that the US has been reducing its supply of them.

 

Acctually, the USA is even worse than those terrorists. Those terrorists come from poor countries and they fight for a better situation for their countries. They want to give us a message: "Look, we are still existing! So stop ignoring us! Stop sitting on your fat asses and living in your luxurious homes! You have the possibility to do something, then do it!"

 

So murder is justified as long as you're doing it to call attention to a good cause? What crime have their victims committed? There is absolutely NO justification for killing people who have nothing to do with your cause/problems.

 

This is a sad fact. And I will prophezize you now something: Nothing, really nothing is going to change until we change this selfish attitude of ourselfs. Selfishness is the curse of humanity. Instead of working together for the greater good of all human beings, we are destroying eachother. I have little hope that this will change in the future. That is why I do not believe in an utopic future. In the end we will destroy ourselves. Sooner or later. Unless some wonder happens, of course. But when not, I do not see any hope for most of humanity. But then again, I see some people who live without selfishness and this gives me hope again. Perhaps, perhaps... The problem is not the politic or economic system, the religion or whatever. It should be human selfishness that we fight. This is the problem.

 

You're right, in a perfect (impossible) world, selfishness would be unnecessary. But as long as we have this flawed world, it is the first duty of a government to protect its citizens.

 

Again, a sad but entirely true fact. Problem is, if I just throw every thing away, this won't help anything at all. It would help, for example, if Bush would spend the money of his government on doing something about the mass-poverty in the USA instead on wars. But humans are selfish and they will do anything to get their hands on power. And most of them do not care at all, most of them only care about themselves.

 

Of course it would help. The money you spend on luxuries could buy food for a poor family. You could spend all your free time working another job so you'd have more money to donate.

 

But at least you get my point, that the idea of living without any indirect harm is impossible. Unless you abandon everything that makes your life worth living, you're going to be living at the expense of someone else.

 

=================================================

 

Also, where in the name of everything holy did you come up with the People Factory? You HAVE to substantiate something like that, because people are not going to believe it. Stop making crap up, you just look pathetic.

 

I have to agree here. I'd like to see a reliable source for this one. I'd have thought something this extreme would be everywhere in the news, and that the pro-war side would be taking every opportunity to mention it.

 

Has it occured to you that the people in Iraq (because you choose to ignore history, which is very dangerous) do not see the bombings as "accidents"?

 

That's irrelevant. Whoever's planning missions in Iraq doesn't just say "Oh look, here's some innocent victims. Let's bomb them and see how much terror we can create!" Terrorists do exactly that.

 

Peregrine, I think your arguments are strong but you are just as blinded by your rabid pro-Americanism as Shakkara (who also has some good points) is by his rabid anti-Americanism. Also, the poor withing this country have it as bad or worse than many other places. Visit an inner city ghetto or drive through a reservation before calling me an idiot. Reservations are living proof of the genocidal nature of our government. Corporate greed and out-of-control consumerism promotes obscene living and working conditions in many poor nations around the world.

 

I don't believe my country is perfect. I admit it has flaws, serious ones in some places. But there's quite a difference between a rational analysis of the situation and calling the US a 3rd world terroirst state and source of the world's evil.

 

And yes, our absolute poorest might be in worse conditions than people elsewhere. But those are the worst. Compare the lower end of the scale overall to its equivalents in these poorer countries and tell me you can still say the same. The poorest of the poor are a much smaller percentage of the population than a lot of places. A lot of people who are considered "poor" in America at least have decent food, health care, a place to live, etc.

[Mojlnir]

QUOTE 

Has it occured to you that the people in Iraq (because you choose to ignore history, which is very dangerous) do not see the bombings as "accidents"?

 

 

 

That's irrelevant. Whoever's planning missions in Iraq doesn't just say "Oh look, here's some innocent victims. Let's bomb them and see how much terror we can create!" Terrorists do exactly that.

 

Okay, you're missing the point of the argument here. Yes, there is a difference when it comes to target selection, but that glosses over the effects of the act. One person's terrorist is anothers freedom fighter, it's all a matter of perspective Peregrine. The people who are accidentally killed in Iraq do not care that the US did not intentionally target them. It still creates fear and anger. I think that a better term for the US would be "rogue."

 

QUOTE 

Peregrine, I think your arguments are strong but you are just as blinded by your rabid pro-Americanism as Shakkara (who also has some good points) is by his rabid anti-Americanism. Also, the poor withing this country have it as bad or worse than many other places. Visit an inner city ghetto or drive through a reservation before calling me an idiot. Reservations are living proof of the genocidal nature of our government. Corporate greed and out-of-control consumerism promotes obscene living and working conditions in many poor nations around the world.

 

 

 

I don't believe my country is perfect. I admit it has flaws, serious ones in some places. But there's quite a difference between a rational analysis of the situation and calling the US a 3rd world terroirst state and source of the world's evil.

 

Again, a matter of perspective. Consider what the US looks like from the outside, rather than what we see in on the inside. The picture is completely different. If someone has never lived outside the US I can understand the inability to see this country in a different light, but I assure you that many people think of the US as completely different than what we think. The serious flaws that you admit are the ones that make the news in other countries, so its little wonder where these differences of perspective come from. Terms like "urban blight" do not refer to trivialities, but rather the very real situations that present themselves to our fellow citizens, many of whom are so under-educated they don't know their own rights. We sit comfortably in suburbia, in front of our precious computers drinking Mountain Dew and we don't have to worry about a stray bullet ending our lives. This situation presents itself to thousands of children who may live not more than a dozen miles from us. Is it any wonder people call us barbaric?

 

By the way, I checking into that "people factory" thing and Luxar has some explaining to do. The closest thing I could find was the discovery of an abandoned Iraqi military mortuary in April of 2003. Saddam may not have been nice to his troops, but there was no mention of a "giant paper shredder" nor anything that could possibly be interpreted as rolling pins of death.

[Darnoc]

ACCIDENTS??? Civilians dying during a war are just accidents? After the first Gulf War, thousands died in the south of Iraq because this area was poisoned and covered with radioactivity. Those people could be still alive, if the USA wouldn't have insisted on boycotting Iraq for so long. Whom did this boycott help anyway? Certainly not the people of Iraq. Was this really necessary? And what is with bombs? Why do the USA always bombard other countries? The only people dying there are civilians. Innocent civilians.

 

Oh, I could go on and on. I could make a list which proves that the USA is the greatest violater against people's and human's right on this planet. A very long list. The USA support many countries which are the worst abusers of human rights. Saudi Arabia, for example. Not only this, what is happening in some parts of Africa because American mining firms. Take Angola for example. The USA long supported Savimbi, a guerilla fighter who's goal was to establish a democracy. Now after the cold war oil was found on the coast, the coast is under controll of the communist government. What does the USA do? US firms buy all the oil fields, US-weapons are suddenly sold to the communist government and all support is taken away from Savimbi and his troops. Treachery because of some lousy oil. And what were those ideals the USA holds so high up? Democracy? Equal Rights? Free market? Globalization? When I see how american firms exploit the ressources of Africa and helping the local dictators there, I can only say that the USA betrays their own ideals. Hypocrits! Liars! Traitors! And I can tell you, one day all the death the USA caused will come back. There is still something like justice. It may take a long time, but one day it will happen.

 

Who will forget that the CIA trained Osama and his terrorists? You, during the time the Sowjets occupied Afghanistan? So I would say USA only got what it deserved. They gave those terrorists the training and the weapons. Shall I go on? Vietnam. Panama. Weapons sellings to Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war. This was one of the worst, worst crimes USA commited. They gave Saddam chemical weapons. And he used them. Against children and teenagers. Interesting, this fact was kept secret, no word came into the Medias of the crimes of Saddam which he commited with the weapons the USA gave him. Oh, and do you remember the genozide in Rwanda 1993? Guess who laid in the veto that there shouldn't be any intervention whatsoever? You are right, it was the USA. The price was one half to one Million dead in a few months. The genozide of Rwanda is considered the worst genozide of the 20th century after the holocaust.

 

Oh, and it still goes on. I don't know who created the term "predator-capitalism" but it perfectly matches the situation in Africa. The lands of the black people are exploited in the worst manners by the Americans and Europeans. Civil wars are started because of resources. These civil wars make the price fall. The resource firms have no interest at all to stop those wars. They are even heating them up a little.

 

I do not call the USA a terrorist. But I do call the momentarily US-government a threat towards humanity. A very serious threat. I am really scared of what Bush will do further on in his insanity. So, I call upon all US-citizens: Do not vote for Bush! Do not give him the power to cause more mayham, destruction and death! Then when you do not stop him, somebody else will be forced to do so. And I don't think you will like this to happen. The USA can't go on violating every right of nations and trampling on the UNO, just because they think that they are the watchmen of the world. I say: Create a world government and give it lots of power. That means, also military power. And of course this world government has to be democratic. I hope that such a world government could stop the insanity we are experiencing now. No more insane presidents and people willingly following him to destruction and death!

 

Has this world gone utterly mad? What has happened with us? Are we intoxicated with death and power? Somebody has to stop it! Somebody has to stop it now!

 

One last thing: The terrorists from 11th September hit the wrong target. It should have been the White House. There is one thing about those terrorists which is better than the US-government: They died because they believed in something. At least they were honest. But look at the hypocrit sittin on the presidents chair: He is talking about democracy and that the USA are good, all who oppose them are bad, everyone with Weapons of Mass Destruction is bad. At the same time he is doing everything to bring down democracy, he is supporting dictators, he supports nations which violate human rights , he possess WMD himself. The terrorists didn't gain anything with their attack. Only revenge. And they delivered a message, as I said before. And those who do not listen to this message are those who are blind.

 

I think it is sad what happened to the USA. And I say this as half an American myself. My father is American and I lived in the States. In order to save the USA, we have to do something about Bush and other guys like him. Such guys are destroying this beautiful country which was once the symbol of freedom.

 

And here is my message to George W. Bush: Hypocrit, Liar and Betrayer! You will get your just reward, sooner or later! One day, revenge will come upon you and the blood of the innocent people you killed through your orders will be demanded from you! Their destroyed and dead bodies will point with their fingers on you and they will cry aloud with voices which will be heared: "Murderer! You are guilty!" They are doing this right now! Let us hear those voices of the innocent which were killed through his bloody hand! And I say, one day the earth itself will tremble of all the voices of the people which were killed and murdered through your hand and the hand of other people like you! You will take your place among those who had a big responsibility through their power but used it for their own purposes instead of using their power for the good of the others! You will be stripped of all power and honor and you will lie there without any protection from the angry and vengeful spirits of those who were killed through you! And when this day comes, god may help you! But he won't. You will beg for mercy, but will receive none, because you never gave it.

 

When I look at this world, I only see injustice, lies and selfishness. Because of this, anger and hate arises. What happened at 11th September was only the reaction on what we did. A first reaction. You will see, more will follow. The Western world has rapped, exploited and destroyed for centuries the rest of the world. And now it comes back. It has to come back. And the next time it won't be only just a building which will fall.

 

You say that those which died in these towers were innocent? No one is innocent anymore in the western world, not even I. We are all helping in the worst crime ever to occur. We are all criminals of the worst kind and most of us are not even realizing it. How blind have we become? Do we think that we are invincible? Do we think that we can rule the rest of the world forever? As I said, 11th September was a first reaction, a first sign. Finally, justice will be done. All the blood we spelt and still spill will come back on us. People are dying so that we can live in luxury! Every day, every hour! Blindness has come upon us. I know that I am a criminal and that it would be only just if I would die. But some people, like Bush, are even worse. They acctually believe that their crimes are what is right.

 

So, I said it. You may be angry now, but I said what I think and what I believe. I just hate injustice and it hurts me to see it happen all the time. And it hurts that I am taking part in it. I hate this world and I hate myself for what I am doing. I'm sick of all those lies and this injustice! It has to end! It has to end now! And I tell you now, I am going to do everything in my power to help it end! When I die, I want to say that I at least helped a little to make things better. Now you know my purpose of life :)

[Mojlnir]

Darnoc, I don't agree with everything you said but...damn...that took guts. You have my respect for saying what others are afraid to say. You're not alone among people who seek to change the world and I hope that you can make a difference. God knows this planet needs it.