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Mod Install order when adding MANY? (not load order)


ninjamaster0420

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Hello, I will soon be attempting to get my game back to the stable state it was in a few months ago w/ 100-120+ mods ( and I'd like to add another 20-30 if my system can handle it) after I had to do a clean windows reinstall. I have edited my .ini's with steam cloud OFF and verified the saved changes after launching & I have the most up to date required programs: F4se, LOOT, NMM, FO4Edit, WryeBash. I have searched much on the internet and haven't found much on the importance of *Install* order not load order, I know the importance of load order and how to sort it/ troubleshoot it. What I need to know is besides patches & dependencies does Install order really not matter when installing ( just a few at a time) MANY mods? Using the known test/troubleshooting method of installing 3-5 mods then running across the world map & interacting with what the mod(s) touches on, wouldn't it be more efficient to add the mods I can test easier/faster first in the install order and would that be sensible to do? Example: it would make more sense to test cbbe & skin texture mod / bullet time/ sol's 6k implants Before trying to test Fusion city rising mod / skip dima memories as it would take time/ or console codes galore including setstage commands to test those types. Could anyone at least estimate a 'safest' order to install by NMM catagorey? Think of it more as mod install problem prevention (call me paranoid)

 

A few general mod related questions:

Should mods that add items to player inventory be activated AFTER you leave vault 111? read somewhere it was a good idea.

I've personally found that mods that mess with Leveled lists are almost always tricky, any tips for these type mods?

 

Here's my modlist (Not load order, nothing has been installed as of yet) which most of these i had running stably a few months ago. There are a few questions at the end of specific mod's, Not expecting anyone to read the mod pages for me But if you Happen to know anything about any of them off hand, Please comment on them!

 

 

 

mods i want to install organized by NMM catagorey:
***********************

Animations
***********************
-Disbale headbob by erico9871
-Disable headbob - for lowered weapons " "

-Lowered Weapons 1.1 by lesma666

-Lowered Weapons - DLC Addon - Loose files by alexbull_uk

Armor
***********************
-Concealed armor by nisas --------------- Question: Do not let this overwrite AWKCR.ESM/ or any AWKCR files?

-Concealed armor both DLC by modman31
-Concealed armor AWKCR 3.x.x Patch " "

-Pampas set -CBBE- Low Res Textures by ralfetas
-Pampas set -CBBE- Physics option Beta by ralfetas -------- Question: use this or let cherry hotalings do it w/ her patch or does it matter ?

Audio Misc.
***********************
-STALKER Music Mod by bananaphone333
-STALKER Music Mod - Far Harbor " "

Audio SFX
***********************
-Cinematic Sounds - Explosions - 1.01 by Foster

-Glorious gauss rifle sound by Polarpop

-Simply Better Laser Sound FX by iam6UN

-Idiot flirt Main file. Anime Moan by TokHaar Hok Gol
-Idiot flirt Intellectual flirt " "
-Idiot flirt Alternative picture version " "

Bug Fixes
***********************
-FROST - Unofficial Boston FPS Fix by SenorSliceyHands

-Mellow Scavvers V2 by Rangerwithabigiron

-Perk Magazine Material Fix - for ETSGM by Old Nick

-Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch by U.P.P. Team --------- Question: last stable game w/ 100+ mods i didn't run this, should i this time?

Clothing
***********************
-Cherry Hotalings CBBE Physics CHCBBEP 2.1 by Cherry Hotaling
-Cherry Hotalings CBBE Physics HN66s EasyGirl Outfits - 2.1 " " ----------------- Question: install this after physics mod or after clothing mod?
-Cherry Hotalings CBBE Physics Pampas Set by ralfetas - 2.1 " " ----------------- Same question as above

-Equippable Bikini High Heels Stockings and Gloves By Bumex & Newmiller
-Equippable Bikini High Heels Stockings - (ArmorUpgrade) " "

-Expanded Ballistic Weave - Merged Files by A Can Of Win
-Expanded Ballistic Weave - Bandanas " "

-HN66s EasyGirl Outfits for CBBE and SHB - Bodyslide V5.01 by humannature66
-HN66s EasyGirl Outfits for CBBE and SHB - V5.01 - PATCH B " "

Clothing - Backpacks
***********************
-Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - MAIN 1.4 by Aldebaran90 and Stndmunki
-Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Vest Material Update " "
-Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - Backpack Leyr Retexture " "
-Wearable Backpacks and Pouches - AWKCR Crafting Patch " "
-Wearable Backpacks - AWKCR Crafting Patch P.A. Carry Weight " "

Collectibles, Treasure Hunts & Puzzles
*****************************************
-Hidden Goodies - Hidden Goodies v2 by Rangerwithabigiron

Companions
***********************
-Better Companions - No Conflicts - v.1.3 by Recluse

-Deeper Thoughts Curie - Affinity-Sorted Dialogue - Expressive by DisplacerBeast8u

-Dogmeat - A True Companion - Nerfed by Zazuban ------------ Question: works ok with better companions? (above)

-Ghost- White Dogmeat - White Dogmeat V1.5_NMM by kirkieball

-Heather Casdin - A Unique Companion Experience v1.03 by llamaRCA --------- Question: works ok with better companions? (above)
-Heather Casdin - Assorted Patches - FOMOD v1.03 " "

-JINA Deacon.esp - JINA Deacon by Jinamaja
-JINA Hancock.esp - JINA Hancock Ghoul " "

-Loving Cait - Loving Cait by Koozebane ------ Fact: Excellent job w/ all of his 'loving' series,
-Loving Curie - Loving Curie 1.0.3b " " it's Truly some of the Best in modding I've seen &
-Loving Curie - LovingCurie-ShadowSynthesis " " you owe it to yourselves to try these character remakes out!!
-Loving Piper - LovingPiper-DarkPrecursor " "

Crafting - Home
***********************
-Home Plate - Mechanist Lair - Full Workbenches by g10stpd

-Provisioner Supply Containers by Petce

Creatures
***********************
-Glowing Animals Emit Light - ALL DLC by mm137

Environment
***********************
-Vivid Fallout - All in One - 1k by Hein84
-Vivid Fallout - Landscapes - LOWER RESOLUTION - Best Performance by Hein84
-Vivid Fallout - Landscapes - LOWER RESOLUTION - Best Performance Update " "

Factions
***********************
-Enclave Resurgent - Enclave Resurgent 1_2 by cluegiver

Gameplay Effects & Changes
*****************************
-Arbitration by JackArbiter ------- comment/Question: last stable game with 120-ish mods i used Create own difficulty rebalance (below) & it ran well with many other mods..all of which are on this list, wondering if this mod will play as nicely, thoughts? (Read bottom desc. page of this mod for the lolz')
-Bullet Time - Slow Time - v1.2 by registrator2000
-Bullet Time - Slow Time - Xbox 360 Controller Mapping File by HugeBoomer/registrator2000

-Create Your Own Difficulty Rebalance by The Iron Rose

-Disable Dismemberment by Weapon by HoosteenElGuero ----------Question: wondering if this will play nice with CBBE-LD patch & Frost-LD patch? thoughts?

-Disable VATS - Disable VATS by SwordLo7 ------- Question: required for Bullet time with xbox 360 controller mapping file? i recall having a temporary issue getting vats to Not activate when using my 360 controller And bullet time key being old vats button, Thoughts?

 

-Fallout 4 Loot Overhaul 2016 Edition - 3.07 by Darth Sith ----- Question: wondering if this will work with Arbitration, those 2 together might do what i used to use many other mods to do, Thoughts?
-Faster Terminal Displays - (20x) C.K. Version by Old Nick

-Hookers of the Commonwealth Lite (HotC Lite) - Standalone Version - v.0.99d by Recluse

-Killable Children - Killable Children 1.2.7.1 - All Dlc by Abbalovesyou ------ question: many mods that alter child behavior get buggy any of that with this one?
-Lasers Have No Recoil - v1.3.2 by SephDragoon

-Live Dismemberment - Increased Headshot Damage by DeathclawAlpha

-No Rail Road Ballistic Weave - CPL version by lautasantenni

-QuickTrade - QuickTrade 1.3 by registrator2000 -------- Question: works with FDI?

-Real Time Death (No Slow mo) - 5 seconds FO5Edit by Bradenm650

-Sneaky Kills - Sneaky Kills by 5133p39

-Survival Mode Console Enabler - Public Release by akihirokytori ----- Question: is this a decent mod to do this ? ( survival options by Jekod seems to have a LOT of bug reports & does more than i want, this mod used to work )

 

-Unlimited Bounties - Unlimited Bounties by Audacity45 -------- Question: any1 use this w/ a lot of other mods? does it work/ forsee any compatability issues?
-UNnaked Power Armor - without Toughness perk by Reveurr

Hair, Face & Body
************************
-Commonwealth Cuts - KS Hairdos - ApachiiSkyHair - 2.4 by imAarwyn
-Commonwealth Cuts - KS Hairdos - ApachiiSkyHair - Fixe 2.4 " "

-Motoko Hair (GITS) - Motoko Hair by stefanmb

-Ponytail Hairstyles by Azar v2.5a - BA2 version by Azar

Immersion
************************
-CWSS Redux - Craftable Working Showers Sinks Baths Toilets Urinals Kitchens etc - V2 by steve40 and FLipdeezy

-Journal of the Sole Survivor - Personal Journal - 1.1 by registrator2000

-Pip-Boy Flashlight (Pipboy - Power Armor - Lamp Overhaul) by AKcelsior

-Scavenged Wastes - Scavenged Wastes by General Lubu ----------- Question: wondering if this one alters less files than Loot overhaul by

Darth Sith or alter less files & does it work?
-Weapon Rack Extended (WRE) - 1.3 - Nuka World by cpdark

Items- Food/Drinks/Chems/ect
*******************************
-Give Me That Bottle - DLC (Requires Far Harbor) by Zzyxzz

Locations - New
************************
-Diamond City Outskirts (The Hole REDUX) - V.1.15 by SGTMikey

-Hookers of the Commonwealth (HotC) - v.0.99h by Recluse

 

-South of the Sea (MARCH UPDATE) by GameChems

-Underground Railroad (Redux) - Immersive fast travel for Survival - All DLC by gorillatamer T9X69

Locations - Vanilla
************************
-Diamond City Expansion - 1.1 by Statsmakten

-Hellway to Spectacle Island - 2.0 by shubaka

Miscellaneous
************************
-No Bethesda and S.P.E.C.I.A.L Intro by Meatbag101

Modders Resources & Tutorials
********************************
-Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource - #1 - v4.02 by Gambit77 & Valdacil ------ Q: Do I have the order correct?
-Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource - #2 - v4.02 Downsized Texture ba2 " "
-Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource - #3 - Color Swap Mod Slot Hider " "
-Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource - #4 - P.A. missing pieces/mod slots - Fix " "

Models & Testures
************************
-Better magazine - Better Magazines - 1.2 by Flomo175
-Better magazine - Un-lore friendly BetterMagazines " "

-Bun's Radioactive Glowing Fusion Core Retextures #1 High Vis FC by TheCinnamonBun
-Bun's Radioactive Glowing Fusion Core Retextures #2 RADical FC " "

-Caliente's Beautiful Bodies Enhancer -CBBE- by Caliente
-CBBE - Reduced (with dismemberment) " "

-CBBE - Curves - CBBE - Curves - 1.1 by Svartpest

-ETSGB - Easy To See Glowing Bobbleheads - NMM Fomod installer by Herpderp2332
-ETSGH - Easy To See Glowing Holotapes - ETSGH FOMOD installer " "
-ETSGM - Easy To See Glowing Mags - ETSGM Version 2 " "

-Perk Magazine Material Fix - for ETSGM 2nd by Old Nick

-Immersive Mouth and Teeth - 4.3 by ClearanceClarence

-Power Armor HUD - 1st person retexture - PA HUD 2 by Gulch ------- Question: work with iHud/ Hudframework ?

-Sexy Billboards & Posters 2k and 1K by Ridick82
-Sexy Magazines Covers 1k - Main " "
-Sexy Magazines Covers 1k- far harbor " "
-Sexy Magazines Covers 1k Nuka world " "

-Shadman's Pipboy Wallpapers by MissKatie and Shadman

-Silky Smooth Skin (SSS) -CBBE Skin - v2.2 FOMOD Installer NEW by Dapper Dan ------ Question: is there a different skin texture mod that's comparable in quality/options ect..?
-THBrows - bb6cb-thbrows by TrophiHunter

-Valkyr Female Face and Body Textures - Face Texture - v1.1 by Fuse00

-Vault Girl Bobbleheads #1 - Main - NSFW by AnTiWoMaAgNoT ------ Question: do I have the order correct?
-Vault Girl Bobbleheads #2 - Glowing Head " "
-Vault Girl Bobbleheads #3 - Vault Girl Nuka World Patch " "

New Lands
**********************
-Beyond the Borders #1 - New Lands Mod - BTB V 4 bug fixes by thelonewarrior
-Beyond the Borders #3 - Possible CTD Bugfix - Worldspace Data for BTB " "

-Beyond the Borders #2 - Far Harbor Fix V4.7 by Jimbot70

NPC
**********************
-NPCs Travel - FO4 NPCs Travel by skyquest ------- Question: would Arbitration/ Horizon/ Create your own diff. rebalance affect these npcs?

NPC - Vendors
**********************
-Hookers of the Commonwealth (HotC-SE) - Settlement Edition -Use with Lite OR Full- v.0.95d by Recluse

Overhauls
**********************
-FROST Survival Simulator - FROST v0.55 by naugrim04

-Horizon v1.4.8 - Horizon v1.4.8 by Zawinul

Patches
**********************
-FROST-LiveDismemberment Patch (dead for now) - by waster420

-Safely Scrap Covenant (& Zimonja) Turrets - Safely Scrap NPC Turrets by rdunlap

-VIS DLC Component Tags for DEF_UI by Marth77

Preformance
**********************
-Insignificant Object Remover by AKcelsior

Perks
**********************
-Perverted Perks - Idiot flirt Compatible by TokHaar Hok Gol

-Spark of Genis (Idiot Sevant For Smart Peple) -Second Release- (Use if idiot flirt #2 doesnt work) by LLX

Pip-boy
**********************
-Premium Pip-Boy Black HD #1 - Premium Pip-Boy Black HD - Green Edition by JackWall
-Premium Pip-Boy Black HD - Optional Buttons and Guages color pack " "
-Premium Pip-Boy Black HD - Optional no thunder on power connector " "
-Premium Pip-Boy Black HD (PipBoy) - Optional Black Interior " "

Player Homes
**********************
-Basement Living - Bunker and Basement Player Homes (with standalone Workshops) - v1.3 by fadingsignal

-Cambridge Bungalow Player Home - v1.2 by RedRocketTV

-Goodneighbor Apartment - 1.2 by Calarand

-Marlborough Mansion - DLC VERSION by Elianora

-Rebuilt Home Plate by rdunlap

-Sanctuary Bunker Player Home 1.5 by Elianora
-Sanctuary Bunker Player Home Improvements " "

-The Oberland Station Basement Player Home v1.1 by rdunlap

Player Settlement
***********************
-Conquest - Build New Settlements and Camping - 1.3 Release by Chesko

-Homemaker - Expanded Settlements - Homemaker Without Redundants v1.55.1.zip by NovaCoru

Power Armor
***********************
-Brotherhood Power Armor Overhaul ( #5 S.A.R. install ) - BPAO v1.0 by Bordraw

-Car Sounds for Power Armor by KnightHasen

-Consistent Power Armor Overhaul ( #1 S.A.R. install ) - CPAO v1.1 by Bordraw
-C.P.A.O. ( #2 S.A.R. install ) - CPAO - Clean T-60 Metal Retexture " "
-C.P.A.O. ( #3 S.A.R. install ) - CPAO - PAMAP 2.0 Patch " "

-Enclave style X-01 Power Armor retexture #1 - Retexture fix for hand issue by HugeBoomer
-Enclave style X-01 Power Armor retexture #2 - Retexture No Enclave symbol " "

-Imperial Jetpack by Dreek Delindel -----------Question: any other mods that do it better/ more simply?

-Military Power Armor Skin Pack - Standalone (#1) - AIO - 1.0 by ice
-Military Power Armor Skin Pack - Standalone (#2) - Jetpack Textures " "

-Power Armor Animation Changes - v1.rar by SomberX

-Power Armor Materials AND Paints ( #4 S.A.R. install ) - PAMAP_NMM by Mcgan

-Some Assembly Required ( #6: Prerequisites ) - MAIN by Progman
-Some Assembly Required ( #7 Prerequsites ) - Atom Cats CPAO Patch " "

Quests & Adventures
***********************
-Fusion City Rising - Quest Mod Plus - v.1.0 by Recluse & Thuggysmurf
-Outcasts and Remnants - Quest Mod Plus - v1.10 by Recluse & Thuggysmurf & Formado721

-Skip DIMA memories - Far Harbor by OisinR

-Sol's Six Thousand Implants - SolsSixThousandCaps by WhatisSol

-The Collector's Guides - The Collector's Guides AIO by Elys

-Welcome to Goodneighbor by X

-Xander's Aid - Neeher DLC - Xander"s Aid 2.5.1 by Neeher

Radio
***********************
-Existence 2.0 - Existence 2.0 by Macabre Productions

-More Where That Came From - Diamond City Radio Edition - 3.1 by OldManMose76

-Muggles Joints - Standalone Non-Replacer Radio Station - Version A - Final by nerdofcolor

User Interface - to be honest this whole section is confusing AF as to what's compatible & what's changed by each mod
***********************
-Colorful Survival Icons - 1.0.0 by Maduin81

-DEF_UI - DEF_UI 1.4.3 by Neanka & Valdacil & Old Nick & ParasiteX & sekoms

-Full Dialogue Interface (NewDialog) #1 - English - NMM installer - Beta12 by Cirosan & shadwar
-Full Dialogue Interface (NewDialog) #2 - English - Far Harbor DLC support - Fixes missing lines " "
-Full Dialogue Interface (NewDialog) #3 - English - Nuka World DLC support - Fixes missing lines " "

-HUDFramework (#1) - 1.0f by registrator2000
-HUDFramework #2 DEF_UI Compatibility Patch " "

-Immersive HUD - iHUD by Gopher

-Mod Configuration Menu - MCM - 1.24 by reg2k - Neanka - shadowslasher410

-Satellite Color World Map Combo 1-3 by XunAmarox

-Stash Those Caps - Weighted Edition by Greslin

-Valdacil's Item Sorting - v9.0.3 by Valdacil
-Valdacil's Item Sorting - Armor by Slot v9.1 " "
-Valdacil's Item Sorting - Cosmetics by Type v9.1 " "

Utilities
***********************
-Achievements - Achievements v1-0-5 by Expired 6978 ---------- Question: is there a mod that does this better/more simply?

-BodySlide and Outfit Studio by Ousnius and Caliente

Visuals & Graphics- always looking for best combo of better preformance & visuals, which of these go best together? any compatibility w/
*********************** Vivid fallout/ Insifignant object remover

 

-Darker Nights - Darker Nights by unforbidable
-Darker Nights - No Fog Glow for Far Harbor " "

-Enhanced Lights and FX by Anamorfus

-Fallout 4 Enhanced Color Correction by ChaosWWW

-Mega Explosions - MegaExplosions x1.5 by Meltus

Weapons
***********************
-Better Explosives - (Requires Far Harbor and Nuka World) by Zzyxzz

-Black Laser Rifle(s) - laserweapons.zip by Balogm

-MP40 by TrophiHunter Chad509 ------------ Question: compatible w/ Skibadaa's ?

-PreWar Binoculars by a_blind_man

-See-Through-Scopes by henkspamadres

-Skibadaa Weapon Pack REDUX - v1.2d by Skibadaa

Weapons & Armor
************************
-Thunderstruck - 5 new mods for Gauss Rifle, new meshes and Power Armour Paint (all tiers-frame-jetpack) by Jkroovy
-Thunderstruck - 5 new mods for the Gauss Rifle (new meshes) - Thunderstruck-GaussLoreFriendlyAddon-G.L.A.E.R " "

Weather
*************************
-True Storms - Wasteland Edition - (Thunder-Rain-Weather Redone) - v1.4.1 by fadingsignal
-True Storms - Wasteland Edition - Nuka World Add-On (with TS Far Harbor Compatibility) " "

 

 

 

Edited by ninjamaster0420
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to quote myself:

qwertyzeldar

install order just skips the need to sort the load order. types of mods don't need to be installed in any particular order unless another mod does the same thing.

 

for example, one mod affects textures another affects weapons stats. for these two mods, they can be installed and placed anywhere in your load order in relation to each other as neither one will affect the other.

 

now a texture mod and a weapon mod the texture mod goes to need to be installed in a specific order. the weapon must be installed first followed by the texture mod.

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Thank you^ I suppose I might be having fear induced Deja' Vu from the PITA it was getting my game to that point in the past lol, but I read, checked req. & compatability issues for the most part. Think I'll try installing in the most efficient way to proof check the installs. Wish me luck? xD

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Well, I'm not going to comment on all you've got there, but I can say a few things:

1. Testing in pieces isn't a bad idea, but do check on updates for those mods.

2. I did add console access to my survival run and it does come in handy for a few glitched mods, when you find them (I'm planning to recheck crafting for Crossbows of the Commonwealth, trying to get out of the crafting seemed glitched at the time, but a quick fast travel command to the main place got me out of it).

3. Do use the unofficial patch, as we have yet to hear the Bethesda patched the bugs the modders fixed with it.

4. Do add in the Fallout 4 Script Extender, as that has also become a staple mod that even MCM can use.

5. I have seen a glitch with Survival options at least where beds, matresses, and sleeping bags are concerned, saving works as intended and remember you can leave options on vanilla/default, but you'll be able to save when and where you want (great if your time is limited). This will work with the console enablers without issue as far as I've seen.

 

If you need my mod list I posted for some help a while back in the mod support section ("Need some help and Issues with Some Tools" was the title I think). The info found there from others and my journey to fixing things may help you out. I did find one very useful trick which may help with mod sorting and may help keep some of the pieces together: the export tool in NMM will ignore lines with a # symbol at the start (don't add a period on that line to be safe). You can use that and the general guide on load order at bethesda.net to organize things. You'll see I used it in my later load order posts and so far it seems to be working. I may still have a few bugs to squash elsewhere, but I'll be checking on some of that later today.

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Mod install order matters when you are adding textures and meshes to the game.

Say you have a mod that changes all the vending machines, but then you find one that changes just the cigarette machine that you like better, in this case you would install the vending machine changes and then install the cig machine so that it overwrites the one included in the vending machine mod.

 

That is the biggest reason to install mods in a specific order.

 

There is also the instance of multiple mods making gameplay changes to a specific item/faction/etc. Myself I would use xedit to merge those mods together, because normally the mod authors will typically copy the whole record for the item and then just make their specific changes on the copy. Multiple mods changing different aspects of the item, will default to the last one loaded, which typically nullifies the changes you like from the other mods. If the mod author only copied over the aspects of the item they wanted to change and didnt copy the whole record, you may be able to get away with not merging them, but this can only be determined by opening up the esp in xedit or the CK and looking.

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  • 1 month later...

With a lot of mods, install order does matter a little.

 

This is mainly due to compatibility patches, which will sometimes ovewrite stuff in other mods. Especially if using an automated installer, as it will often check off patches related to other mods automatically. You can do this manually, but it's easy to miss something and that may cause problems.

 

For example, you probably want to install any sorting mods near to last. They tend to require a lot of compatibility patches, and will usually check off what you need for you if you're using an automated installer.

 

The same goes for update patches. You want to install those after the main part of the mod.

 

Basically, UI elements and compatibility patch packs [such as Radrose's] should be installed last. It's doesn't hurt to install texture packs near to last as well. They're generally fine no matter where you put them, but installing them last ensures that they overwrite anything you want them to take priority over.

 

If you know a mod is going to want to install a bunch of patches to work with other mods, you'll want that towards the end of your install list as well. Keywords, Valdicil's Sorting, stuff like Calibur, Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, and that sort of thing.

 

Generally I install in this order: ENB and/or Reshade, script extender, Overhaul Mods, UI mods, Body Mods [CBBE or something similar], animation/physics, lighting and FX, Weapon and items additions, quest mods, creatures, gameplay tweaks, textures, and then finally item sorting and patches.

 

I also tend to plan what order I install texture mods in, so I can prioritize which ones I want to handle the bulk of the work. I usually start with a larger texture pack as a base, such as Vivid Fallout, and then add on individual things I want to tweak after that.

 

Then I use Loot. Then xEdit, Smashed, or Wrye Bash. Which also inform me of anything redundant or conflicting that I need to tweak or pare down.

 

It may be fine for the most part to just toss everything in, but I like the results I get with this system and it seems to me as if those results are more consistent.

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