Forget about the Republicans and Democrats.

[csgators]

The republicans are the ones concentrating all the power in the ruling elite......

 

By fighting for smaller federal government and more states rights? It is the left who wants more federal power and they don't try to hide it. They truly think it's a good thing. The right may only give small government and state power lip service but they at least claim to like it. Both sides have been increasing federal power, it's just a matter of how fast they are doing it. The problem is that it's 1000 times easier to grow the government than it is to shrink it. Shrinking usually happens all at once and it a very drastic way. It will happen again and the process won't be pretty but in the end destruction and renewal will occur for the better.

[Ghogiel]

I personally doubt that, people are not in unison and actively uphold either end of the establishment, therefore propping the whole thing up to continue ad nauseum.

[csgators]

No government has ever lasted forever and the US is still very young. Look at the popularity rates of all branches of government and I think you will find the support on both sides is pretty soft. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, just that it MUST happen at some point.

[HeyYou]

The republicans are the ones concentrating all the power in the ruling elite......

 

By fighting for smaller federal government and more states rights? It is the left who wants more federal power and they don't try to hide it. They truly think it's a good thing. The right may only give small government and state power lip service but they at least claim to like it. Both sides have been increasing federal power, it's just a matter of how fast they are doing it. The problem is that it's 1000 times easier to grow the government than it is to shrink it. Shrinking usually happens all at once and it a very drastic way. It will happen again and the process won't be pretty but in the end destruction and renewal will occur for the better.

 

In all reality, I don't think its "just" a left, or right thing. Bush had the patriot act, Obama has the NDAA, and various other things. BOTH parties are giving the government MORE power, and taking rights away from the general public.

[Ghogiel]

No government has ever lasted forever and the US is still very young. Look at the popularity rates of all branches of government and I think you will find the support on both sides is pretty soft. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, just that it MUST happen at some point.

Well yeah, eventually the world will end...

 

Until that time, same s*** different day.

[shotgun188]

The world is currently going through a stage where free speech and privacy are under attack. The internet will be much less anonymous when the world governments finish passing all these acts. After we lose a lot of our privacy and free speech, people will riot, support people that promise free speech and more privacy and then we will get tons of free speech and tons of privacy after a while. Then the cycle will repeat until we change how governments work.

[Nintii]

No thanks ... I don't want anyone from anywhere in the world telling me what to do based on their world view and philosophy ... the world does not need a big brother

such a government will mean a loss of freedom because now we're going to have to conform to "please each other" ... as the saying goes, one man's meat is another

man's poison.

 

Any cultural or religious freedoms you have now will be out of the window ... to make such a statement is to be ignorant of world politics and peoples.

 

Just a quick one ... in India you have the people they call untouchables, they can only come out at night and at certain times ... bet you didn't know that, but what's

more, any attempts to bring them into main stream society have resulted in people setting themselves on fire and committing suicide.

It's a way of life ... the caste system ... now you're going to try and change that because you're fed up with the Democrats and Republicans ?

[Ghogiel]

No thanks ... I don't want anyone from anywhere in the world telling me what to do based on their world view and philosophy ... the world does not need a big brother

such a government will mean a loss of freedom because now we're going to have to conform to "please each other" ... as the saying goes, one man's meat is another

man's poison.

Kinda have that anyway regardless of time or place. There is always much pressure against dissent and nonconformity. You probably have some cultural bias to begin with. And really you can do what ever you want, but I'd hazard a guess there are laws to limit what you can get away with as it is. A big brother need not be any more oppressive or draconian as any independent government is. In fact there are many more smaller insular governments that you can point at and clearly see that they are.. strict.

 

For me personally, any government doesn't necessarily mean total loss of freedom> in that if it protects yours and every ones freedom equally, which is the number one quality/priority of any governing body imo, which it can only limit your freedoms to the extent that they interfere or violate other peoples freedoms. Which is exactly 'pleasing each other' (equally). As opposed to please the few, or otherwise biased in some way pleasing the selected.

 

Any cultural or religious freedoms you have now will be out of the window ... to make such a statement is to be ignorant of world politics and peoples.

There are many cultural and religious practices that are rather harmful and just need to stop. I'm, and really we as humans are going to have to draw the line somewhere with allowing free reign to practice culture and religion. Some of it is bad juju. Right to due process, education etc, regardless of race or gender, none of that burning witches alive in a ditch. Female circumcision. The list is rather long. I'd stomp all kinda stuff right out. If anyone has discourse on how allowing such actions to continue in the name of culture and/or religion is in anyway justifiable and beneficial... I don't think just because the ritualistic cannibal is being fed will out weight the fact he is eating people, in the broad sense none of these things will hold up to any sort of moral scrutiny.

 

Just a quick one ... in India you have the people they call untouchables, they can only come out at night and at certain times ... bet you didn't know that, but what's

more, any attempts to bring them into main stream society have resulted in people setting themselves on fire and committing suicide.

It's a way of life ... the caste system ... now you're going to try and change that because you're fed up with the Democrats and Republicans ?

One of India's presidents was an untouchable. He did all right as an independent lol

Edited April 29, 2012 by Ghogiel

[Nintii]

@ Ghogiel ... I have some cultural bias ? ... I have no clue how you read that in what I've said ... but for the record, to never be repeated again, (I'm white), own my own

house which has six bedrooms, each one is occupied by one of my girlfriends - MOST of whom ARE East Indian ... of the top twenty or so of my best friends, the majority are black, then come the Indians and lastly the whites.

Cultural bias my foot ... I've been slapped, almost arrested because of my defending people by racist cops who still exist today, and have been turned out by some people because of my "friends" of "color", so please.

I have been across the border into Mozambique with American, Canadian, British and Australian friends to do nothing else but feed and teach kids in god-forsaken little no-where villages with no reward other than seeing them grow ... which is the greatest reward.

I regularly teach kids almost every week in our local community for absolutely free ... these kids come from every race and language imaginable.

When I go visiting, I don't stay in some hotel, I stay in their homes, in their communities, in the squalor, in the drug and gang infested neighbourhoods.

I am very well known, loved and respected by many of these communities and their leaders ... you don't know me, so please don't talk about what you don't know.

 

And No, you won't be able to do what you want ... you will not be able to celebrate your cultural values ... squeezing people into the same mold so that we don't step on each

other's cultural toes is plain disrespect and arrogance ... I respect everyone's right to rule over themselves the way THEY SEE FIT.

How can I be free if I'm unable to practice what I believe in, what my cultural values are ... the world is not shrinking in nations but growing as people "seek" their freedom from the collective.

Now, I don't have a problem with nations who hold similair value systems and ascribe to common goals or policies and thus join in economic or political blocs (where they still

exercise the right to rule over themselves), but one government, with one set of laws that ignore my rights to live the way I want to because someone else will be offended ?

No way, not going to be endorsed by me not now not ever ... then be offended, I want my freedom.

 

Cultural and religious freedoms that disrespect or deny my freedom of choice might not be good for you or I (people in general), but it might be what others want ... who are we to tell people how to live.

But quite honestly, it WILL NEVER HAPPEN, this is all wishful thinking ...

Just for a start, do you think that China is going to let you tell them what to do or even Russia or even the US ... how about the Muslims or Christians or Jews or Hindu's ... you

have got a better chance of meatballs falling from heaven.

This is reality, I don't care about philosophy, no matter how good it sounds.

 

Lastly, just because one leader in India was an untouchable means nothing, that hasn't changed a thing, they are still treated that way, lol.

[Ghogiel]

@ Ghogiel ... I have some cultural bias ? ... I have no clue how you read that in what I've said ... but for the record, to never be repeated again, (I'm white), own my own

house which has six bedrooms, each one is occupied by one of my girlfriends - MOST of whom ARE East Indian ... of the top twenty or so of my best friends, the majority are black, then come the Indians and lastly the whites.

Cultural bias my foot ... I've been slapped, almost arrested because of my defending people by racist cops who still exist today, and have been turned out by some people because of my "friends" of "color", so please.

I have been across the border into Mozambique with American, Canadian, British and Australian friends to do nothing else but feed and teach kids in god-forsaken little no-where villages with no reward other than seeing them grow ... which is the greatest reward.

I regularly teach kids almost every week in our local community for absolutely free ... these kids come from every race and language imaginable.

When I go visiting, I don't stay in some hotel, I stay in their homes, in their communities, in the squalor, in the drug and gang infested neighbourhoods.

I am very well known, loved and respected by many of these communities and their leaders ... you don't know me, so please don't talk about what you don't know.

Cultural bias means you are of a culture. Whatever yours is, will color your perception of the world and its people. Having no cultural bias is not easy to imagine. It may very well be unorthodox and hard to pin down to a single cultures values, practices or beliefs. But to be without culture.. what does that even mean.. you were born in a cave and never met another person, or learnt and practices any customs... :unsure:

 

And No, you won't be able to do what you want ... you will not be able to celebrate your cultural values ... squeezing people into the same mold so that we don't step on each

other's cultural toes is plain disrespect and arrogance ... I respect everyone's right to rule over themselves the way THEY SEE FIT.

I hope you do not advocate a free for all... with no laws protecting your own right to life and liberty. The inescapable conclusion is limiting ones right to do as they wish if they were to start to infringe on others freedoms.

As they see fit... sure to a point, as long as the buck stop with them. As in they can flail their arms about all they want. As long as the fist stops short of the end of my nose.

 

How can I be free if I'm unable to practice what I believe in, what my cultural values are ... the world is not shrinking in nations but growing as people "seek" their freedom from the collective.

Now, I don't have a problem with nations who hold similair value systems and ascribe to common goals or policies and thus join in economic or political blocs (where they still

exercise the right to rule over themselves), but one government, with one set of laws that ignore my rights to live the way I want to because someone else will be offended ?

No way, not going to be endorsed by me not now not ever ... then be offended, I want my freedom.

Regardless of an uber government or an independent the issue is with protection of individual rights. If you advocate complete carte blanche on ones rights to cultural and religious practices.. it's just madness. SPARTA! There must be laws limiting their right to practice in the event they want to burn a witch or otherwise infringe on other peoples freedom.

 

Cultural and religious freedoms that disrespect or deny my freedom of choice might not be good for you or I (people in general), but it might be what others want ... who are we to tell people how to live.

Do the witches want to get burnt? It is daft to think such a thing.

 

I really hope I don't need to point out how ridiculous that statement is. All murder, in the name of a god is now justified by your logic. All cultures where the genocide of another rival culture is now justified. And lastly you just relinquished your own freedom and right to life to be at the whims of whatever nonsense people want to make up.

 

edit: and by that logic you have just justified the very thing you say you are against. The culture that respects freedoms might not be good for those who are violating other peoples lives and freedom, who are they to tell people how to live... and in some cases die.

 

:wacko:

 

But quite honestly, it WILL NEVER HAPPEN, this is all wishful thinking ...

Just for a start, do you think that China is going to let you tell them what to do or even Russia or even the US ... how about the Muslims or Christians or Jews or Hindu's ... you

have got a better chance of meatballs falling from heaven.

This is reality, I don't care about philosophy, no matter how good it sounds.

Perhaps it is wishful thinking. But I will never give up on freedom and equality, the rest of the world can resign itself to whatever it wants, I will not. :cool:

 

Lastly, just because one leader in India was an untouchable means nothing, that hasn't changed a thing, they are still treated that way, lol.

And yet it proves an untouchable can be president. The remnants of the caste system still pervade to this day, which has been abolished, but as you can see it's not like it once was, these cultural inequalities take time for society to adjust out of and eventually stamp out in the main stream.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Ghogiel