Fangirling in Sovngarde and Thoughts on the Elder Scroll Afterlife for

[sajuukkhar9000]

I'm still puzzled about the whole Shor = Lorkhan thing since if lorkhan is dead, why is he commanding people in Sovengarde?

 

Anyway, it was an interesting place. I had hoped for more interesting talks with some of the heroes (like asking Ysgramor if he knows wtf is the Eye of Magnus, or asking Windcaller things about the first tongues), but oh well, it least i saw them, though i wanted that dragon armor from Ysgramor for myself! Sad that he didnt take it to the afterlife...

 

All the gods are dead.................... they died at the creation of the mortal realm.

 

They "do things" because in the Es universe belief alters reality, the mortals thoughts of the gods doing things causes them to do it despite being dead.

 

In more simple terms, the mortal races are puppeting the gods dead bodies around for their own wishes.

[eltucu]

All the gods are dead.................... they died at the creation of the mortal realm.

It wasnt explicitly stated that the most powerful gods escaped that fate? (precisely the 8 divines). Some died forming the earthbones while others escaped leaving "holes" from which they escaped in Nirn sky (the stars). Lorhkan was killed after the creation of Nirn (hard to trow his heart to a place that doesnt even exists yet).

[sajuukkhar9000]

It wasnt explicitly stated that the most powerful gods escaped that fate? (precisely the 8 divines). Some died forming the earthbones while others escaped leaving "holes" from which they escaped in Nirn sky (the stars). Lorhkan was killed after the creation of Nirn (hard to trow his heart to a place that doesnt even exists yet).

 

The Magna Ge escaped, tearing holes in Mundus that are the stars

The 8 divines were killed, their bodies floating around in space like Lorkhan's

Many degraded into the mortal beings

Many more died and degraded into the earthbones

 

Also Lorkhan was killed at the same time the mortal realm was created, Linear time didn't exist until Akatosh came down to Nirn using the Ur-Tower and held convention were the gods met and discussed Lorkhan's punishment.

 

The creation of the mortal realm, linear time, and the trial and sentencing of Lorkhan, were all simultaneous events.

Edited May 1, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[eltucu]

The Magna Ge escaped, tearing holes in Mundus that are the stars

The 8 divines were killed, their bodies floating around in space like Lorkhan's

Many degraded into the mortal beings

Many more died and degraded into the earthbones

 

Also Lorkhan was killed at the same time the mortal realm was created, Linear time didn't exist until Akatosh came down to Nirn using the Ur-Tower and held convention were the gods met and discussed Lorkhan's punishment.

 

The creation of the mortal realm, linear time, and the trial and sentencing of Lorkhan, were all simultaneous events.

:psyduck: Fair enough.

 

I still really really want Ysgramor's armor (even if OP think its silly :P )

[ToniPrufrock]

http://www.maniacworld.com/i-like-turtles.jpg

I like Turtles.

[Giagun]

Sorry to revive this old thread, but my question fits in with Sovngarde and the after life in the Elder Scrolls.

 

Warning that this has to do with a huge spoiler in the main quest of Skyrim.

 

 

 

 

So, when the Dragonborn arrives to Sovngarde he finds Alduin, laying a soul trap and feeding off the souls in Sovngarde for power. My question is what happens to these souls? Are they completely destroyed? Does Alduin absorb them into him? and are released upon his death? Or do they become part of Alduin or one with Alduin's soul?

 

Edited January 2, 2013 by Giagun

[bjeet]

I don't know much about all this lore stuff but I think only only Nords get Sovngarde and my being Imperial disqualifies me. I am a Werewolf and also a Nightingale so I guess Hiricine and Nocturnal will have to sort out the problem after my character's death. I'd prefer the Hunting Grounds over Guard duty at Nocturnal's Shrine.

[Lachdonin]

Holy sweet mother of crap balls... I can't beleive i missed this the first time around... I'm sorry Sajuukkar, i should have been here to back you up on the Dreamsleave thing. In that regard, there is nothing to indicate it's removal in Skyrim, and it is explicitly mentioned in at least 2 Oblivion era publications soooo... Until told otherwise, i stand by the possition it's still there. I do dissagree on the Talos thing though, mostly because i find the mantling of gods at the end of a TES game to be something left as a 'once in a while' thing. Until we know for sure, i'd rather leave that chapter unfinished.

 

As for Sovengarde, it is not JUST for Nords. At the time of its 'creation' there was no such thing as a Nord. Rather, there were Men who lived by a certian tradition, one which can most easily be expressed as Nordic culture. As with most things in the Elder Scrolls, following a particular path is tantamount to becomming, so if your character acts Nord, they are for all intents and purposes Nord, at least as far as the metaphysical goes. Why someone would want to live a harsh life of violance and with a sense of constantly haveing to prove themselves, i don't know, and thats probably why you only see Nords in Sovengarde.

 

As for what happens to the Dragonborn when your done. I'm of the mind that the PCs in TES games are, in fact, expressions of the Elder Scrolls themselves, rather than linked to any particular diety. When their task is done the cease to be, fading back into the creatia of the Scrolls until their power is needed again. Through events like the CoCs mantling of Sheogorath, you can get a smooth transition, others, like the Nerevarine, simply dissapear, never to be seen again. Thats why you can make pacts with so many Daedra, because technicly you answer to a much higher power.

[bjeet]

Hummm.....so I guess Sovngarde is open to my character. But who the hell would want to be stuck in a "smallish mead hall" with the likes of Ulfric Stormcloak and Galmar Stone-Fist!!!!! :wallbash: Better to throw in my lot with Hiricine. :devil:

[UrgeNexus]

I've had a ton of characters, so for the sake of simplicity I'm going to post with my current character in mind. His name is Magnar, he is a Nord warrior who just became Harbinger of the Companions. I'll finish off the mainquest before Dragonborn comes out and probably Dawnguard as well. He's essentially my main character, so using him for this post seems fitting.

 

Magnar is first and foremost Dragonborn, as such, one can assume Akatosh would have first dibs on his soul. You can also make a strong argument for the Dragonborn mantling Talos and by extension Lorkhan/Shor. It's a toss up between those two, I can't think of a storng argument for either side that determines where Magnar's soul will end up.

 

There's also the Daedra to consider. Magnar is a werewolf and has completed Hircine's quest by killing Sindig. So Hircine has a pretty strong claim based on that, if not for the fact that Magnar plans to cure his lycantrophy when it suits him, as he has the means to do so. Lycantrophy offers too many benefits for Magnar to cure it right away though, even when not transformed, the Glenmoril Witch Heads are his ace in the hole when it comes to Hircine.

 

He's also completed Meridia's quest, but Meridia doesn't seem to have any interest in gathering souls, not as far as I know anyway.

 

He will complete Clavicus Vile's quest eventually, again, Clavicus seems more interested in screwing with mortals through wishes and deals than actively collecting souls.

 

Magnar hasn't even been to Markarth yet, but it's very likely he'll end up doing Molag Bal's quest. This one is interesting to me from a roleplay perspective, it's a quest that can tell you a lot about who your character is. One of my previous characters ended up doing Boethia's quest and then feeling horrible about it afterwards, when he stumbled upon Molag Bal's quest he did it purely out of spite, to get some small revenge on Boethia. Magnar hasn't been in that situation, but I can see him doing Molag Bal's quest for one simple reason. Magnar helps people when they need it, when Vigilant Tyranus approaches him, he can't simply walk away and ignore someone who is potentially walking into a very dangerous situation. On that basis, Magnar has to enter the abandoned house, it's the kind of thing he does. When he is actually faced with Molag Bal he is presented with two options, do as he is told, or don't. If you know anything about Molag Bal, you know that you really have no choice in the matter. Magnar may be a brave and powerful warrior, but he is less than nothing compared to the Lord of Domination.

 

Now, Molag Bal's quest seems quite tame all things considered, the priest he forces you to kill (twice) is no doubt a pretty bad guy. Considering what kind of fate awaits him in Coldharbour though paints a different picture and makes this quest by far the worst morally. Even so, no reasonable person says no to Molag Bal and if Magnar dies, Alduin wins. Magnar knows this and will ultimately have to break his own code for the greater good.

 

I went on way to long with that one quest, but as I said, it's one of those quests that can define who your character is. My conclusion on Bal is that while the Dragonborn serves him briefly, he never pledges his soul and Bal never states any desire for the Dragonborn's soul, even if that desire is certainly there. Molag Bal's quest seems like a simple transaction to me, you give Bal a soul and Bal generously gives you his mace instead of crushing you like a bug.

 

I've already gone on way to long with this, so I'll wrap it up. Basically, here's how I think things would go:

 

The Dragonborn dies. Several Daedra want his soul and may even have strong claims to it. Akastosh however is solely responsible for the Dragonborn's existance in the first place however, by providing a dragon soul. The Dragonborn is for all intents and purposes a Dragon who happens to have the body of a mortal. Dragons are children of Akatosh and so I believe Akatosh has by far the strongest claim to his soul, provided Aka even wants it. Then there's Lorkhan, who the Dragonborn is (At least in my case) almost surely mantling via Talos, wether the Dragonborn can actually take the place of the missing god as the Champion of Cyrodiil did to Sheogorath is uncertain, but given that Lorkhan is Shor and my Dragonborn is a Nord, Sovngarde seems the most likely outcome to me.

 

So in short, Magnar will go to Sovngarde when he dies. Huh...I guess I could've just written that from the beginning, oh well.