Foreign troops on national soil

[Aurielius]

For a military force like the US Army these bases are very important to stretch their influence in the world. The US are the only remaining superpower which is able to bring a hole division in 24 hours everywhere on the globe.

As much as I would like to agree, I cannot. The only troops that can be moved to any locale in 24 hours in force is the Airborne, which is a light division and would have to transit without heavy weapons. In other words a trip wire force, though elite troops they are hardly the same thing as moving an armored division. That is why prepositioning by means of overseas military bases is required for any true military intervention of substance. The only other method, is the Fast Transit shipping method which has been sorely depleted in the last two decades and would still take weeks to arrive with all necessary material. Super power sure, but not all powerful....support logistics are still the caveat no matter what or where the deployment is. Our true extension of power that can be employed in a major hurry is still the Carrier Groups with their attendant Marine Brigades and that is still dependent on steaming time to get in range.

[HeyYou]

I know as an American living in America if there had been a UK or Indian or Japanese or whatever base down the road with drunken foreign troops at our bars I would have been intensely angry and insulted. It would have meant that not only could we not defend ourselves but we had given over sovereignty to another nation. I can understand it in some case (S. Korea would not be there if not for our help). But if you are serious about being independent it would be unacceptable to have a another country maintain a base on your land.

Thats a bit disingenuous CS , we both know where you are currently residing. Having been in a myriad of bars with drunks of all nationalities why is a foreign serviceman anymore offensive than the local redneck? They are both drunks and equally a pain in the ass.

 

As far as I know and as far as Google can tell me there are zero military bases run by foreign governments where I live. As far as drunk serviceman go, I concede the point, fine. Having guests for training is no problem, having a permanent base means your country can't defend itself. Period. If you can't defend yourself then what are you really? A puppet? A slave? A barrier? What? I have moved away from the blood sucking, life draining slavery of America, yes. The country I live in now has bled oceans of blood to get it's Independence, they have fought off the two largest current powers in their history for the status they now have as an independent nation. That is not why I am here. My statement had nothing to do with where live now, it was about the nation I lived in before and the client states that allow themselves to be dominated by it. I do not love the government I live under right now, just as I don't love the one I lived under before. The government I love lived over 100 years ago and nothing like it exists now to my knowledge.

 

So, Germany, UK, Japan, and a host of other countries are american puppets? Really????

[myrmaad]

I'm glad we had this little talk.

[Moveing]

So, Germany, UK, Japan, and a host of other countries are american puppets? Really????

Don't play these games.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Moveing

[Tamujiin]

Not to sound conceded, but we all know what "american interests" are. Oil, the reason the reason the U.S spreads there interest around the world is two fold.

1. We have the means too. We have allies to protect/help out train whatever, the U.S's intention 87.5 percent of the time are pure, the last ten years, not so. It is the 21st century, and well China is on the rise, if the world, with the united states as a global leader, sits back and does nothing, China's Thirst would destabilize the world economy. We would be living in a nightmare, while china floated on top. Nothing agaisnt china, but look at the numbers, how that country consumes.

2. The bad things America does? 87.5% of the time, misconstrude. Things that need to be done, that nobody else in the world has the means to do. Or the willpower to do. What america does, is in first, the interest of herself, second, in the interest of her allies. The united states can mobilize her entire military in a matter of hours if need be. and be around the world, in less that a week.

 

America herself respects the soverignty of the rest of the world. It is individuals from America, that disgrace it.

 

The 87.5% thing is a random number, dont quote me on that.

[HeyYou]

So, Germany, UK, Japan, and a host of other countries are american puppets? Really????

Don't play these games.

 

Given the statement I quoted in the post you quoted, I see that as a valid question.

[Maharg67]

Aurielius, I have not offended by the idea of American forces being on Australian soil. They were both welcome and needed in World War Two. In war time forces would be more than welcome again. Aurielius, I have no hidden agenda against the USA. I am open about my concerns. This was not true many years ago but back then I was rather naive and extreme in my views.

 

What I seek is clarification of my ideas on the matter of any foreign forces on any home soil. I brought up the case of American Marines on Australian soil only because it was this that brought my attention to focus on this question. As I have already said, Aurielius, if Australians were to vote in some some kind of referendum to have permanent American bases on Australian soil, if they said yes, then I would be happy to have them here. As it stands now with only relatively small numbers, it is fine with me. The Soviets and China have done far worse with their troops on foreign soil than the US has ever done for the Soviets were occupying forces and the Chinese occupy Tibet.

 

IF IT WAS A CHOICE BETWEEN AMERICAN AND CHINESE SOLDIERS ON AUSTRALIAN SOIL, I WOULD ALWAYS CHOOSE AMERICAN SOLDIERS AND NEVER CHINESE.

 

If the US Federal Government wanted a change of American Constitution so as to place non-American soldiers permanently on US soil then the least Americans would want is a chance to hold some kind of referendum or other vote that would express how they feel on the matter. I suspect strongly a few would want to take up arms.

 

My first topic was focused on Australia but this topic is far more general in focus and is not just about America or Australia.

 

As it is the question may be mute because of the amazing apathy of the Australian public but apathy is no positive substitute for a self aware, aware national population making strong decisions about the future of their nation. Perhaps I am still naive in my hopes.

 

I believe in democracy, though I have also become some what cynical about our democracies in action, and see this question as being strongly linked with that of people of a nation having real choices as to what happens in their nation. My concerns go far beyond this one topic.

 

I hope that the focus of this topic moves away from just American soldiers on other people's soil or other people's soldiers on American soil.

[Aurielius]

@Marharg

I am certainly not saying or implying that you have a hidden agenda, I believe that you are being forthright in your agenda for what thats worth. I also believe that the internal politics of Australia is Australian business not American. If you feel aggrieved at our presence then I think that your representatives should be made aware of your concerns and if enough of your countryman feel likewise and gain control of the government,then simply ask us to leave and I am sure we will comply. One thing to keep in mind before you show us the door, it's a long way from Pearl Harbor or San Diego if you suddenly find yourselves in deep water and expect help in a hurry. One other thing, considering that Australia is ranked 24th ( only slightly ahead of Canada, who have no issues with being under our protective umbrella) in world military power, you might consider spending slightly more of your GNP on it when you ask the first ranked power to leave as basic freedom preserving insurance. China your most likely foe is ranked third and is arming itself for the possibility of contesting naval dominance of the Eastern Pacific.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Aurielius

[Maharg67]

Recent cuts in Australian defense spending have been most unwise and some of the spending has just been as unwise. We have spent a sheer fortune on our dysfunctional submarine fleet and now are abandoning the idea of having modern mobile artillery for our army, which is a stupid move when it comes to being able to fight any form of modern war.

 

The outcome I would like to see is a general clarification of what the future is for American forces in Australia, the consensus of Australians, the working out of such an arrangement such a legalities, political mandates etc. I have no desire to kick out any Americans. I have a desire to have Australians choose just what American forces are based here and under what conditions they are based here. Australia needs the USA but the USA also needs Australia or why put the soldiers here in the first place and why not before now? Our small continent offers base positions that are strategically important to South East Asia, the Pacific, the Indian Ocean and even areas such as the Southern Ocean and the Antarctica.

 

What is the point of defending a democratic country if its democratic validity is undermined in the process? The same goes for nations around the world, including the USA. Any nation, no matter how powerful, can be brought to its knees if certain events take place beyond its control, for example the fall of the Roman Empire and the collapse of the British Empire, not to mention the crumbling of the Soviet Union. One day Americans may be faced with the same sort of choices that Australians could now be facing; what would the responses of Americans be? If the Australian Commonwealth was to break down, for example with civil war, then same challenges would become even more urgent here.

 

This topic is not about military power or strategies of military success! It is about any national people having choices about their own national territories and actions.

[HeyYou]

But that is what folks vote their politicians into office to deal with. Foreign policy can't really be completely democratic. having to have a popular vote on every issue would ensure nothing gets accomplished in a timely matter.... You elect those folks to represent your views, and to do what is best for the nation. Now, if they would actually DO that job........ I am thinkin' the folks would be happier. (at least, here in the states....)

 

The US is 'shifting focus' to asian interests at this point..... Having assets based in Australia will help with that goal. Of course, it may also get Australia dragged into a war not of its own making.......

 

I don't think there is much danger of a conventional war any more. At least, not in the style of WWII..... with large armies facing off, etc. It just isn't practical any more. Not with nuclear weapons drifting about...... which, it is a pretty safe bet, WOULD be used if one of the combatants came to the conclusion that without their use, they would lose..... (of course, WITH their use, everyone would lose.....)