Donation Points system now live for mod authors on Nexus Mods

[Flip777]

In response to post #60434912. #60435157, #60439167, #60487932, #60495767 are all replies on the same post.

JinKanzaki wrote: I wonder how many of the people complaining here have spent more than 10 bucks on mod donations in the past 10 years...

endgameaddiction wrote: I don't donate and never will. Modding is a hobby and doesn't require money for compensation. Feedback is perfectly fine.

FLipdeezy wrote: Lol no offense but who made you the authority?

endgameaddiction wrote: Okay, I'm going outside to the beach and making a sand castle every day. Why? because I like doing it. it's a hobby. If you don't throw cash at me, you are an inconsiderate individual because you can't understand how much effort, hard work and hours I've put into it just so people can look at it.

Pay me. Now.

MPDStudios wrote: Ikr

That was incoherent and emotional

[steve40]

 

In response to post #60519602. #60542232, #60553337 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

bilago wrote: I'm assuming this change isn't retroactive. My main mod has over 400,000 unique downloads, if only this existed then!

NMC wrote: If it was, I'd be planning my retirement :D

I don't like the word 'prospective', smells of hard work...

Kriemen wrote: I absolutely love hard work. I can just sit and watch it for hours... :D

Haha, I enjoyed that!

 

But on a serious note, a concern of mine is the licensing for the photo reference I use in my texture mods- they typically indicate that they are only for use in non-profit, non-commercial personal projects. So I have a nagging concern that this may automatically preclude me from opting in, as this may breach those terms... although I'm not sure opting into this DP system and releasing work would or could ever be viewed as 'making a profit' or a 'commercial venture' as these are indirect voluntary donations, not direct payments... but that said, Nexus would provide payment in a way.... the more downloads, the greater the share, and some of it from their own funds....

 

So I wouldn't want to just take a chance and hope for the best without a second opinion. Having no legal knowledge to speak of, it's a point of uncertainty that would be good to have cleared up and at least give me the option, as those t&c's can be worrisome to the uninitiated and uninformed like myself... I do suspect it depends on the person/website applying those original terms on how strictly they are upheld and applied though, and I doubt anyone would be hunted down over the price of a sandwich, ethical considerations aside for the moment.

 

 

It isn't publicly available who has opted-in or not. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Kriemen]

In response to post #60519602. #60542232, #60553337, #60555852 are all replies on the same post.

bilago wrote: I'm assuming this change isn't retroactive. My main mod has over 400,000 unique downloads, if only this existed then!

NMC wrote: If it was, I'd be planning my retirement :D
I don't like the word 'prospective', smells of hard work...

Kriemen wrote: I absolutely love hard work. I can just sit and watch it for hours... :D

NMC wrote: Haha, I enjoyed that!

But on a serious note, a concern of mine is the licensing for the photo reference I use in my texture mods- they typically indicate that they are only for use in non-profit, non-commercial personal projects. So I have a nagging concern that this may automatically preclude me from opting in, as this may breach those terms... although I'm not sure opting into this DP system and releasing work would or could ever be viewed as 'making a profit' or a 'commercial venture' as these are indirect voluntary donations, not direct payments... but that said, Nexus would provide payment in a way.... the more downloads, the greater the share, and some of it from their own funds....

So I wouldn't want to just take a chance and hope for the best without a second opinion. Having no legal knowledge to speak of, it's a point of uncertainty that would be good to have cleared up and at least give me the option, as those t&c's can be worrisome to the uninitiated and uninformed like myself... I do suspect it depends on the person/website applying those original terms on how strictly they are upheld and applied though, and I doubt anyone would be hunted down over the price of a sandwich, ethical considerations aside for the moment.

Writing this whilst waiting for the first coffee of the day to kick in. Hope it makes sense. For me, the main considerations are...

Is opting into the DP system actually considered as commercial income? Is accepting a donation from a mod user considered as commercial income? To me they are quite similar. Except that some could consider the Nexus as being a commercial entity. If so, does that have any impact on things?

If the answer to any of the above is yes, then does any of this contravene the original Game usage agreements? I'm sure the Nexus team and their legal people have looked into all of that. Personally, I feel that that the odd small donation or “cashing in” a few DPs here and there does not constitute a commercial quantity.

These are permissions from a random mod.

“Asset use permission in mods/files that are being sold You are not allowed to use assets from this file in any mods/files that are being sold, for money, on Steam Workshop or other platforms”

“Asset use permission in mods/files that earn donation points You are allowed to earn Donation Points for your mods if they use my assets”

I read this as “DO NOT sell my hard work”, but “Earning a few DPs” my my hard work is quite OK. I feel the same about my work. So, one can infer from this that the DP system is not considered as commercial income. Admittedly, the DP permission has been enabled by default. Perhaps it should have been set to an “undecided” state and mod authors encouraged to review their permissions. But, that's already been discussed and is being looked into.

As for resource usage, that's another consideration. I'd encourage people to double check usage permissions for everything their mods use and also encourage fellow mod authors to review their own mod permissions. Keep in mind that some permissions may change as authors make a final decision. Permissions for my mods may do the same, depending on others resource permissions. (Managed to get the word permissions into this paragraph 6 times... :) )

Do the same for any external resources. I've got quite a few resources from other sites that I need to check up on. My resource library is over 1.5GB and growing. So that's a lot of mods yet to be checked. Will authors from other sites agree to their work earning us DPs? Are we all worrying about nothing? Who knows?

Personally, I'm rewarded enough just to see people enjoying my work, sharing their pics and giving feedback. It encourages me to try to become a better modder. Been modding since the early 80's and am still learning... (At least I don't have to do everything via a Hex Editor any more...) I've only opted in 2 mods that use vanilla resources. At this stage, I just don't feel right opting in any others. In the meantime, I'll just wait, watch and see how it all works out. Edited June 1, 2018 by Kriemen

[Deleted23213994User]

In response to post #60434912. #60435157, #60439167, #60487932, #60495767, #60568452 are all replies on the same post.

JinKanzaki wrote: I wonder how many of the people complaining here have spent more than 10 bucks on mod donations in the past 10 years...

endgameaddiction wrote: I don't donate and never will. Modding is a hobby and doesn't require money for compensation. Feedback is perfectly fine.

FLipdeezy wrote: Lol no offense but who made you the authority?

endgameaddiction wrote: Okay, I'm going outside to the beach and making a sand castle every day. Why? because I like doing it. it's a hobby. If you don't throw cash at me, you are an inconsiderate individual because you can't understand how much effort, hard work and hours I've put into it just so people can look at it.

Pay me. Now.

MPDStudios wrote: Ikr

FLipdeezy wrote: That was incoherent and emotional

Emotional? I fail to see how it was emotional. Incoherent? No, you fail to see the picture.

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #60572182.

steve40 wrote:

 

In response to post #60519602. #60542232, #60553337 are all replies on the same post.

bilago wrote: I'm assuming this change isn't retroactive. My main mod has over 400,000 unique downloads, if only this existed then!

NMC wrote: If it was, I'd be planning my retirement :D
I don't like the word 'prospective', smells of hard work...

Kriemen wrote: I absolutely love hard work. I can just sit and watch it for hours... :D

Haha, I enjoyed that!

But on a serious note, a concern of mine is the licensing for the photo reference I use in my texture mods- they typically indicate that they are only for use in non-profit, non-commercial personal projects. So I have a nagging concern that this may automatically preclude me from opting in, as this may breach those terms... although I'm not sure opting into this DP system and releasing work would or could ever be viewed as 'making a profit' or a 'commercial venture' as these are indirect voluntary donations, not direct payments... but that said, Nexus would provide payment in a way.... the more downloads, the greater the share, and some of it from their own funds....

So I wouldn't want to just take a chance and hope for the best without a second opinion. Having no legal knowledge to speak of, it's a point of uncertainty that would be good to have cleared up and at least give me the option, as those t&c's can be worrisome to the uninitiated and uninformed like myself... I do suspect it depends on the person/website applying those original terms on how strictly they are upheld and applied though, and I doubt anyone would be hunted down over the price of a sandwich, ethical considerations aside for the moment.

 

 

It isn't publicly available who has opted-in or not. Out of sight, out of mind.

It will be soon. It's one of the things we're adding soon because, obviously, other mod authors and right holders need to be able to see whether a mod is breaking terms of any licenses they have, or not.

[NMC]

In response to post #60519602. #60542232, #60553337, #60555852, #60573257 are all replies on the same post.

bilago wrote: I'm assuming this change isn't retroactive. My main mod has over 400,000 unique downloads, if only this existed then!

NMC wrote: If it was, I'd be planning my retirement :D
I don't like the word 'prospective', smells of hard work...

Kriemen wrote: I absolutely love hard work. I can just sit and watch it for hours... :D

NMC wrote: Haha, I enjoyed that!

But on a serious note, a concern of mine is the licensing for the photo reference I use in my texture mods- they typically indicate that they are only for use in non-profit, non-commercial personal projects. So I have a nagging concern that this may automatically preclude me from opting in, as this may breach those terms... although I'm not sure opting into this DP system and releasing work would or could ever be viewed as 'making a profit' or a 'commercial venture' as these are indirect voluntary donations, not direct payments... but that said, Nexus would provide payment in a way.... the more downloads, the greater the share, and some of it from their own funds....

So I wouldn't want to just take a chance and hope for the best without a second opinion. Having no legal knowledge to speak of, it's a point of uncertainty that would be good to have cleared up and at least give me the option, as those t&c's can be worrisome to the uninitiated and uninformed like myself... I do suspect it depends on the person/website applying those original terms on how strictly they are upheld and applied though, and I doubt anyone would be hunted down over the price of a sandwich, ethical considerations aside for the moment.

Kriemen wrote: Writing this whilst waiting for the first coffee of the day to kick in. Hope it makes sense. For me, the main considerations are...

Is opting into the DP system actually considered as commercial income? Is accepting a donation from a mod user considered as commercial income? To me they are quite similar. Except that some could consider the Nexus as being a commercial entity. If so, does that have any impact on things?

If the answer to any of the above is yes, then does any of this contravene the original Game usage agreements? I'm sure the Nexus team and their legal people have looked into all of that. Personally, I feel that that the odd small donation or “cashing in” a few DPs here and there does not constitute a commercial quantity.

These are permissions from a random mod.

“Asset use permission in mods/files that are being sold You are not allowed to use assets from this file in any mods/files that are being sold, for money, on Steam Workshop or other platforms”

“Asset use permission in mods/files that earn donation points You are allowed to earn Donation Points for your mods if they use my assets”

I read this as “DO NOT sell my hard work”, but “Earning a few DPs” my my hard work is quite OK. I feel the same about my work. So, one can infer from this that the DP system is not considered as commercial income. Admittedly, the DP permission has been enabled by default. Perhaps it should have been set to an “undecided” state and mod authors encouraged to review their permissions. But, that's already been discussed and is being looked into.

As for resource usage, that's another consideration. I'd encourage people to double check usage permissions for everything their mods use and also encourage fellow mod authors to review their own mod permissions. Keep in mind that some permissions may change as authors make a final decision. Permissions for my mods may do the same, depending on others resource permissions. (Managed to get the word permissions into this paragraph 6 times... :) )

Do the same for any external resources. I've got quite a few resources from other sites that I need to check up on. My resource library is over 1.5GB and growing. So that's a lot of mods yet to be checked. Will authors from other sites agree to their work earning us DPs? Are we all worrying about nothing? Who knows?

Personally, I'm rewarded enough just to see people enjoying my work, sharing their pics and giving feedback. It encourages me to try to become a better modder. Been modding since the early 80's and am still learning... (At least I don't have to do everything via a Hex Editor any more...) I've only opted in 2 mods that use vanilla resources. At this stage, I just don't feel right opting in any others. In the meantime, I'll just wait, watch and see how it all works out.

You made some very good points, thanks for the new perspective and insight... and I too am likely to sit back and wait to see how things pan out all things considered. That's more pragmatism than pessimism, as I use too many external resources to take a risk. But the optimist in me would hope the following is true:
*The 'Donation' itself could be seen solely as reward for the 'hard work' the modder themselves applied in making the mod, and NOT payment for the content of that mod.
* So, the donation is simply an appreciation shown to the modder, who did not make it a mandatory financial agreement- ie., pay me or no mod.
* The modder used those assets with the mod itself viewed and considered as a personal project.
* And in making that mod, there was no certainty or expectation of gaining any financial return whatsoever, it was released as a personal project.
But all that said, I'm not sure I want to volunteer to be the first canary down the mine and so I'll err on the side of caution for now. As you said, I also find reward in positive feedback and the sense of achievement and self development in itself, or I would have quit long ago.
PS., I too was there in the 80's, tinkering with Z80 assembly language, and making homemade adventure games in Basic with a few graphics thrown in- (my first ever graphics!) It never really leaves you ;) Edited June 1, 2018 by NMC

[NMC]

In response to post #60572182. #60581342 is also a reply to the same post.

steve40 wrote:

 

In response to post #60519602. #60542232, #60553337 are all replies on the same post.

bilago wrote: I'm assuming this change isn't retroactive. My main mod has over 400,000 unique downloads, if only this existed then!

NMC wrote: If it was, I'd be planning my retirement :D
I don't like the word 'prospective', smells of hard work...

Kriemen wrote: I absolutely love hard work. I can just sit and watch it for hours... :D

Haha, I enjoyed that!

But on a serious note, a concern of mine is the licensing for the photo reference I use in my texture mods- they typically indicate that they are only for use in non-profit, non-commercial personal projects. So I have a nagging concern that this may automatically preclude me from opting in, as this may breach those terms... although I'm not sure opting into this DP system and releasing work would or could ever be viewed as 'making a profit' or a 'commercial venture' as these are indirect voluntary donations, not direct payments... but that said, Nexus would provide payment in a way.... the more downloads, the greater the share, and some of it from their own funds....

So I wouldn't want to just take a chance and hope for the best without a second opinion. Having no legal knowledge to speak of, it's a point of uncertainty that would be good to have cleared up and at least give me the option, as those t&c's can be worrisome to the uninitiated and uninformed like myself... I do suspect it depends on the person/website applying those original terms on how strictly they are upheld and applied though, and I doubt anyone would be hunted down over the price of a sandwich, ethical considerations aside for the moment.

 

 

It isn't publicly available who has opted-in or not. Out of sight, out of mind.

Dark0ne wrote: It will be soon. It's one of the things we're adding soon because, obviously, other mod authors and right holders need to be able to see whether a mod is breaking terms of any licenses they have, or not.

That's pretty much what I would have expected, as it's clear that Nexus respects and protects the intellectual property of the modders here so this would naturally fit that ethos. I've personally benefitted from that protection more than once. Copyright and licencing are matters that I am sure the more informed members of Nexus will write tutorials and guides on, but I sincerely appreciate the sentiment of the project as it stands- as a tangible 'thank-you' to modders from Nexus, which is definitely reciprocated. The DP system is new and unique, so naturally there is a learning curve and things to iron out for everyone but I believe it's foundations are based on what modding is actually about and will strengthen the community ultimately. I and others do appreciate the work and consideration that went into all of this.

[tonycubed2]

Hi,

 

I am ok with a three month wait. Or a 6 month wait. Not my complaint. What I really really dislike is being unable to see where I stand for a whole month. It takes the excitement away. Makes it boring.

 

It makes it like a rebate check. You send it away and try not to think about it because you know it will take forever. By the way, this is not about the money either.

 

So is there any way to track progress on the wallet page weekly instead? I would love daily. Simply for the excitement it would create. Would serve I believe as an incentive for modders even more than the payouts.

 

Respectfully

 

Tonycubed2

[etayorius]

The unique downloads start counting for donation points as of now? does previous downloads before to this count too?

[Kriemen]

In response to post #60519602. #60542232, #60553337, #60555852, #60573257, #60588362, #60738592 are all replies on the same post.

bilago wrote: I'm assuming this change isn't retroactive. My main mod has over 400,000 unique downloads, if only this existed then!

NMC wrote: If it was, I'd be planning my retirement :D
I don't like the word 'prospective', smells of hard work...

Kriemen wrote: I absolutely love hard work. I can just sit and watch it for hours... :D

NMC wrote: Haha, I enjoyed that!

But on a serious note, a concern of mine is the licensing for the photo reference I use in my texture mods- they typically indicate that they are only for use in non-profit, non-commercial personal projects. So I have a nagging concern that this may automatically preclude me from opting in, as this may breach those terms... although I'm not sure opting into this DP system and releasing work would or could ever be viewed as 'making a profit' or a 'commercial venture' as these are indirect voluntary donations, not direct payments... but that said, Nexus would provide payment in a way.... the more downloads, the greater the share, and some of it from their own funds....

So I wouldn't want to just take a chance and hope for the best without a second opinion. Having no legal knowledge to speak of, it's a point of uncertainty that would be good to have cleared up and at least give me the option, as those t&c's can be worrisome to the uninitiated and uninformed like myself... I do suspect it depends on the person/website applying those original terms on how strictly they are upheld and applied though, and I doubt anyone would be hunted down over the price of a sandwich, ethical considerations aside for the moment.

Kriemen wrote: Writing this whilst waiting for the first coffee of the day to kick in. Hope it makes sense. For me, the main considerations are...

Is opting into the DP system actually considered as commercial income? Is accepting a donation from a mod user considered as commercial income? To me they are quite similar. Except that some could consider the Nexus as being a commercial entity. If so, does that have any impact on things?

If the answer to any of the above is yes, then does any of this contravene the original Game usage agreements? I'm sure the Nexus team and their legal people have looked into all of that. Personally, I feel that that the odd small donation or “cashing in” a few DPs here and there does not constitute a commercial quantity.

These are permissions from a random mod.

“Asset use permission in mods/files that are being sold You are not allowed to use assets from this file in any mods/files that are being sold, for money, on Steam Workshop or other platforms”

“Asset use permission in mods/files that earn donation points You are allowed to earn Donation Points for your mods if they use my assets”

I read this as “DO NOT sell my hard work”, but “Earning a few DPs” my my hard work is quite OK. I feel the same about my work. So, one can infer from this that the DP system is not considered as commercial income. Admittedly, the DP permission has been enabled by default. Perhaps it should have been set to an “undecided” state and mod authors encouraged to review their permissions. But, that's already been discussed and is being looked into.

As for resource usage, that's another consideration. I'd encourage people to double check usage permissions for everything their mods use and also encourage fellow mod authors to review their own mod permissions. Keep in mind that some permissions may change as authors make a final decision. Permissions for my mods may do the same, depending on others resource permissions. (Managed to get the word permissions into this paragraph 6 times... :) )

Do the same for any external resources. I've got quite a few resources from other sites that I need to check up on. My resource library is over 1.5GB and growing. So that's a lot of mods yet to be checked. Will authors from other sites agree to their work earning us DPs? Are we all worrying about nothing? Who knows?

Personally, I'm rewarded enough just to see people enjoying my work, sharing their pics and giving feedback. It encourages me to try to become a better modder. Been modding since the early 80's and am still learning... (At least I don't have to do everything via a Hex Editor any more...) I've only opted in 2 mods that use vanilla resources. At this stage, I just don't feel right opting in any others. In the meantime, I'll just wait, watch and see how it all works out.

NMC wrote: You made some very good points, thanks for the new perspective and insight... and I too am likely to sit back and wait to see how things pan out all things considered. That's more pragmatism than pessimism, as I use too many external resources to take a risk. But the optimist in me would hope the following is true:
*The 'Donation' itself could be seen solely as reward for the 'hard work' the modder themselves applied in making the mod, and NOT payment for the content of that mod.
* So, the donation is simply an appreciation shown to the modder, who did not make it a mandatory financial agreement- ie., pay me or no mod.
* The modder used those assets with the mod itself viewed and considered as a personal project.
* And in making that mod, there was no certainty or expectation of gaining any financial return whatsoever, it was released as a personal project.
But all that said, I'm not sure I want to volunteer to be the first canary down the mine and so I'll err on the side of caution for now. As you said, I also find reward in positive feedback and the sense of achievement and self development in itself, or I would have quit long ago.
PS., I too was there in the 80's, tinkering with Z80 assembly language, and making homemade adventure games in Basic with a few graphics thrown in- (my first ever graphics!) It never really leaves you ;)

Ashes2Asherz wrote: delete it or set it to hidden and release it as a new mod.. problem solved..

I'm a bit like my cat. I too, tend to sit quietly and observe before pouncing. Hope it all works out well.

"tinkering with Z80 assembly language"
That would be an interesting topic for the forums, if it doesn't already exist. For me it was a TRS-80 running CP/M and extended color basic on a Zilog Z80 cpu or it could have been the Motorola 6809... We could only dream of doing what we do now... :) Edited June 6, 2018 by Kriemen