etang2 Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I must agree with you there, in Eragon, it would be widely believed tha Galbatorix would have had the ability to single handedly wipe out each of his foes if not for the uprising of a New Dragons Rider. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggdag Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Ulfric is a racist peice of crap. He would let anyone who is not a Nord suffer and die, and laugh about it afterwards. He is not fit to be a king, or even a jarl The Empire may not be perfect, but it is not led by a xenophobic a**hole, at least. Edited May 19, 2012 by Daggdag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubjectProphet Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Ulfric is a racist peice of crap. He would let anyone who is not a Nord suffer and die, and laugh about it afterwards. He is not fit to be a king, or even a jarl The Empire may not be perfect, but it is not led by a xenophobic a**hole, at least. The Nords have been challenged by EVERY OTHER RACE. They have reasons to be racist, I highly agree on all of the racism the Stormcloaks have. Ulfric has lived through the times where Skyrim suffered because of other races, and he only can trust his own. If a race of Elven warlords came into Skyrim, and you lived inside as a Nord, and these elves took Skyrim and enslaved everyone, wouldn't you be racist towards them? I know I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stemin Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Ulfric is a racist peice of crap. He would let anyone who is not a Nord suffer and die, and laugh about it afterwards. He is not fit to be a king, or even a jarl The Empire may not be perfect, but it is not led by a xenophobic a**hole, at least. The Nords have been challenged by EVERY OTHER RACE. They have reasons to be racist, I highly agree on all of the racism the Stormcloaks have. Ulfric has lived through the times where Skyrim suffered because of other races, and he only can trust his own. If a race of Elven warlords came into Skyrim, and you lived inside as a Nord, and these elves took Skyrim and enslaved everyone, wouldn't you be racist towards them? I know I would. No. Hell no! What you just said is exactly what's inherently wrong and ignorant about racism. You don't hold everyone accountable for the sins of a group that bears the same race. Just because the Thalmor imprisoned Ulfric doesn't mean all elves are bad, all altmer are bad, or even all Thalmor are bad. Why do you think the Altmer hate the Nords in the first place? Because of racism. Because in the past, many of their ancestors were driven out of skyrim BY the Nords: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aldmer Ignorant racism such as you describe just creates a never ending cycle of hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacSuibhne Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 "Racism" is just the politically correct buzzword du jour. I don't think there's any real evidence of racism on Ulfric's part. It's a transposition of a 21st century malaise. Human beings are genetically programed to trust family first, clan second...and so forth, with diminishing trust as more complex and diverse hierarchies develop. In feudal or relatively non-diverse societies, trust doesn't come easy for those who appear different and may not ever come for those who do not share a common culture. If only because "racism" is at least one-third part cultural conflict. Because "trust" is the issue...the real issue. And Trust Must be Earned. I suspect that when you really look closely...and objectively...Ulfric is revealed as being almost indifferent to race. But he doesn't trust people who have not proven themselves. Ulfric has a political objective--to dissolve the unholy alliance between the Thalmor and the putative government of Skyrim. And that's not so hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Ulfric is a racist peice of crap. He would let anyone who is not a Nord suffer and die, and laugh about it afterwards. He is not fit to be a king, or even a jarl The Empire may not be perfect, but it is not led by a xenophobic a**hole, at least. No, they just forcefully impart their will by killing anyone who worships Talos - in their OWN homeland. All Ulfric did was off the royal sympathizer who kept allowing the indiscriminate killing of his own people when he killed the king. He may not be perfect either, but at least he doesn't persecute those based on their religious preferences...... Edited May 19, 2012 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robanybody2000 Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Ulfric is a racist peice of crap. He would let anyone who is not a Nord suffer and die, and laugh about it afterwards. He is not fit to be a king, or even a jarl The Empire may not be perfect, but it is not led by a xenophobic a**hole, at least. No, they just forcefully impart their will by killing anyone who worships Talos - in their OWN homeland. All Ulfric did was off the royal sympathizer who kept allowing the indiscriminate killing of his own people when he killed the king. He may not be perfect either, but at least he doesn't persecute those based on their religious preferences...... ...by starting a civil war wich will kill none i guess...or maybe hundreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 They at least die defending their beliefs and their homeland instead of getting yanked out of their homes whenever the Empire feels like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stemin Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 No, they just forcefully impart their will by killing anyone who worships Talos - in their OWN homeland. I believe you have the Empire confused with the Thalmor. Who are obviously operating on their own agenda and not by direction of the Emperor. In case you weren't paying attention in the beginning of the game or when you entered Solitude, the Empire doesn't just slaughter people on the road. They hold formal executions. All Ulfric did was off the royal sympathizer who kept allowing the indiscriminate killing of his own people when he killed the king. Please cite for me the part where you found evidence of Toryg's beliefs and/or political agenda outside of Ulfric (who is bias) calling him a puppet. I didn't see this in the game anywhere, so if I'm wrong I would like the opportunity to be corrected. He may not be perfect either, but at least he doesn't persecute those based on their religious preferences...... Nor did the Empire until Ulfric started making a big deal about it. He's like a little kid shouting 'Look at me.' All Ulfric cares about is Ulfric. They at least die defending their beliefs and their homeland instead of getting yanked out of their homes whenever the Empire feels like it. This is kids stuff. Dying is easy. The only useful way to accomplish something is by living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiegril Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 "Racism" is just the politically correct buzzword du jour. I don't think there's any real evidence of racism on Ulfric's part. It's a transposition of a 21st century malaise. Ulfic forcing dark elves to live in slums and prohibiting the Argonians from entering the city is in fact discrimination and suppression based on racial characteristics. the following is a quote from the Elder Scrolls Wiki:"After the eruption of Red Mountain, many Dunmer fled to Windhelm. Because of heightened suspicion generated by the ongoing Civil War, the strongly nationalist Nords of Windhelm sequestered the Dunmer from the other citizens in what came to be known as the "Gray Quarter," in reference to the Dunmer skin color. Argonians are also segregated from the Nord population and are forced to live at the Argonian Assemblage at the city docks. When Ulfric Stormcloak became Jarl, he separated the Dunmer and Argonian immigrants from the native Nord population, and founded the militia that would become the Stormcloaks. It is suggested, through dialogue with Viola Giordano, that the Dunmer are taxed more heavily than the Nords, and that these taxes can be raised at the Jarl's whim" Human beings are genetically programed to trust family first, clan second...and so forth, with diminishing trust as more complex and diverse hierarchies develop. This is a matter of scholarly debate. In feudal or relatively non-diverse societies, trust doesn't come easy for those who appear different and may not ever come for those who do not share a common culture. If only because "racism" is at least one-third part cultural conflict. Because "trust" is the issue...the real issue. And Trust Must be Earned. This is an unsubstaniated generalization. One could argue that European colonialism benefited from exploitation of cultures who were, in fact willing to trust outsiders, and suffered as a consequence. I suspect that when you really look closely...and objectively...Ulfric is revealed as being almost indifferent to race. But he doesn't trust people who have not proven themselves. Indifference is not expelling people from their homes and making them live in slums. Indifference to the well being of those who live in his city based on their heritage is a form of suppression, even if it he were not the one who forced them to live in slums or expelled them from the city walls. Ulfric has a political objective--to dissolve the unholy alliance between the Thalmor and the putative government of Skyrim. And that's not so hard to understand. Indeed I agree that he has a political objective. However it is wrapped in racial hatred which he both practices and encourages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts