OBSE and Attacking

[SoulReaver911]

Alright. Whenever I use OBSE and I attack normally with a steady fps rate, everything is fine. However, when the fps starts to lower (which happens often in game) and I attack with quick and successive mouse clicks (in other words the slice attacks with a sword) it sometimes registers heavy attacks, like lunges and the sort. This is an annoyance at best and hardly ever gets me killed, but it takes away from game play.

 

All I know about this is:

 

- It only occurs while using OBSE. It doesn't seem to matter if it's using mods or not.

- This happens mostly in laggy areas with huge fps drops (sadly when you fight is the biggest fps drop)

- It happens with all weapons.

- I once contacted the fellows who made this, and they didn't really respond about this, so if it's a setting that's obvious to the rest of the world, I'd the first to acknowledge that I don't understand much about OBSE, and would much appreciate some enlightenment.

 

Ok, thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for a solution. Oh and sorry if this is not in the right forum, but I had to chose between this and tech support, and seeing how this has nothing to do with just plain old Oblivion, my best bet was here.

[nosisab]

Alright. Whenever I use OBSE and I attack normally with a steady fps rate, everything is fine. However, when the fps starts to lower (which happens often in game) and I attack with quick and successive mouse clicks (in other words the slice attacks with a sword) it sometimes registers heavy attacks, like lunges and the sort. This is an annoyance at best and hardly ever gets me killed, but it takes away from game play.

 

All I know about this is:

 

- It only occurs while using OBSE. It doesn't seem to matter if it's using mods or not.

- This happens mostly in laggy areas with huge fps drops (sadly when you fight is the biggest fps drop)

- It happens with all weapons.

- I once contacted the fellows who made this, and they didn't really respond about this, so if it's a setting that's obvious to the rest of the world, I'd the first to acknowledge that I don't understand much about OBSE, and would much appreciate some enlightenment.

 

Ok, thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for a solution. Oh and sorry if this is not in the right forum, but I had to chose between this and tech support, and seeing how this has nothing to do with just plain old Oblivion, my best bet was here.

What you are saying seems more a lag issue that anything else. OBSE introduces a minimal load but can be significant under stressing fps pressure. The better is minimize that issue at maximal, things like "Streamline"; "Operation Optimization" and in this case of yours "Quiet Feet" are a must, this last one is the only that doesn't deals with graphics, it remove the sounds of the steps from creatures that are known as bugged at least leading to heavy FPS dropping in combats...

 

If anything else fails, consider dropping a bit the graphical quality... the loss is most of times negligible visually but what a huge difference in gameplay.

[SoulReaver911]

Good suggestions for a lower end computer, but that's not the case here. I use to have to use those, but this is completely secluded to OBSE. Not doubts about it. I've been tinkering with this game for a long while now. The issue here is OBSE somehow mixing up when I use quick attacks with slow attacks. This does not happen normally without running the game with OBSE.

 

Plus, I actually still use OO, and steamline can't run without OBSE. The lag is actually minimal, this really isn't a relevant problem except for the fact that the bug occurs more when it does, and like you said, it might be caused by OBSE loading something. From experience, Oblivion will lag occasionally, even with a high end computer.

[SoulReaver911]

Good suggestions for a lower end computer, but that's not the case here. I use to have to use those, but this is completely secluded to OBSE. Not doubts about it. I've been tinkering with this game for a long while now. The issue here is OBSE somehow mixing up when I use quick attacks with slow attacks. This does not happen normally without running the game with OBSE.

 

Plus, I actually still use OO, and steamline can't run without OBSE. The lag is actually minimal, this really isn't a relevant problem except for the fact that the bug occurs more when it does, and like you said, it might be caused by OBSE loading something. From experience, Oblivion will lag occasionally, even with a high end computer.

First: Oblivion is somewhat old engine and one of the first to use such graphical quality and so is far from optimal. Is known it being a big load even to SLI/Crossfire very high end machines under high resolution and filtering...

 

OBSE just includes new functions into the engine (and so CS too), it Extends it, so the name. If you can even start a game without it you doesn't use mods that need it, since the game would crash the first time one of that extended functions showed up (most of time in the load). If no OBSE function is used it just pass the control to the engine almost immediately, so its load is really minimal, mainly in "high end" machines. Just to be clear, OBSE doesn't load anything, it just hooks into the main flow so to intercept and execute the OBSE functions. If not OBSE function it devolves the control to the engine and let it deal with it.

 

Edit: Remember OBSE isn't a performance tool albeit it permit some, as Streamline for example to do it's job.

 

Of course I have mod(s) (one that I'm using right now) that require it, and I'm very aware of what it is and how to use it, but I assure you that's not the problem here!!! It literally is either a setting that I can change in obse (in-game or perhaps a .ini file) because this is a problem that just seems to happen while using OBSE without changing any of its settings. I've had it occur on completely 2 different computers regardless of using 1: mods that don't require OBSE to function or 2: Ones that do. This really is the only problem. I'm not having crashes to desktop, and the fps drops that occur while using OBSE are the exact same as when not using it. The only reason I mentioned loading was because you said it can be significant during fps drops, which is usually during battle anyway so the bug occurs here most. And to stress this again, this bug does not occur while not using OBSE.

 

And also, I've used streamline and this has still occured.

 

Please, I'm only trying to figure out what's the problem with OBSE (I just can't believe I'm the only one with this problem, so someone out there must have had to deal with this before.) I've covered pretty much all the bases that aren't OBSE, so it falls under this. Believe me, I would not have bothered with this post if all it required was simple knowledge of what OBSE is, but rather I need to know how to utilize it so it will stop messing with my mouse input. To be exact, this bug occurs because when the game lags for longer than a half a second, and you're still quickly clicking your mouse all those individual clicks will register as a heavy attack which you normally have to hold the mouse for a duration of about half a second to use.

 

Again, one last time, this only occurs because I started up the game with the OBSE launcher. The rest of the game plays normally even while using OBSE.

[Vagrant0]

Having your normal attacks get registered as power attacks due to low framerate is a common occurance. This is nothing OBSE does. If anything, OBSE, or rather the mods which use OBSE, just increases the strain on your computer just enough to notice it. There's a game setting which can easily be changed to increase the amount of time you need to hold down the attack button for a power attack. By default this is something like 1/3 second, so there really isn't any suprise that it happens when you have 5-10 frames a second.

 

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index...owerAttackDelay

 

Ignore the formulas... they really don't mean anything for our uses here.

[nosisab]

read the very first line in my first post: Yours seems to be a lag problem... "any" thing you can do to decrease it will help alot. Since OBSE will itself place some overhead, yet minimal, this can be enough to create problems at extreme stress.

 

Increasing the time delay may help, but I think reducing the lag and increasing FPS is yet better.

[SoulReaver911]

Having your normal attacks get registered as power attacks due to low framerate is a common occurance. This is nothing OBSE does. If anything, OBSE, or rather the mods which use OBSE, just increases the strain on your computer just enough to notice it. There's a game setting which can easily be changed to increase the amount of time you need to hold down the attack button for a power attack. By default this is something like 1/3 second, so there really isn't any suprise that it happens when you have 5-10 frames a second.

 

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index...owerAttackDelay

 

Ignore the formulas... they really don't mean anything for our uses here.

So this can happen even without OBSE? First time I used OBSE was on a very outdated computer, and and of course with so much lag that the game was barely playable, however the bug only occured while using OBSE, even though the fps rate didn't change while using it. Thank you though, for the link as it may be the only alternative I have to lowering the settings.

 

read the very first line in my first post: Yours seems to be a lag problem... "any" thing you can do to decrease it will help alot. Since OBSE will itself place some overhead, yet minimal, this can be enough to create problems at extreme stress.

 

Increasing the time delay may help, but I think reducing the lag and increasing FPS is yet better.

 

I may seem arrogant, but I can understand what you're saying just fine, and believe me I read each of your posts twice at least. You're absolutely right, the problem is eliminated after lowering everything. But only to a point where it's completely unreasonable.

 

I did some testing while writing this post, and I'd like to share my results:

 

Firstly, I lowered the resolution from 1024*768 to 800*600, and I use the "TDT" console command. My testing area was outside in a particularly laggy area with lots of grass and trees and some buildings and a bear waiting for me to attack (though combat hadn't been initiated yet.) While using OBSE FPS remained pretty much the same after the resolution changed, which is about 14-24 fps in this area and sticks around 15-17 fps in combat (this never went lower or higher, no matter how many enemies, as two more came into the fight with the bear.) So the bug is still occuring as I fight, and most particularly when I get hit hard enough from an enemy to stumble where I can't attack. This is where the bug hits most as I keep clicking the mouse (I made sure to never stop clicking in the test) and the lunge attack happens as it has while using OBSE.

 

So, I got back into the game, same area, and same settings and save after quiting and did not start with OBSE. The fps stayed the same when not in combat and stayed the same while in combat. However when I was fighting, and even though the fps stayed the same, the bug did not occur, even when I stumbled from an attack.

 

Also, somewhat noticable animation breaks occur while fighting in OBSE and often leads to the heavy lunge that I didn't initiate.

 

So essentially, after reducing resolution, fps wasn't significant.

After trying running Oblivion in both OBSE and regular old Oblivion, the fps remained the same in both.

The fps never goes below 10.

 

Can you see where I'm coming from? Obse doesn't seem to impact on Oblivion's frame rate, and I don't seem to get low enough for this to occur naturally, and even when I do, it only happens on OBSE with or without using mods that require OBSE.

[nosisab]

Please post your load order. At first glance I think you aren't even using any mod that depends on OBSE since the game would crash if loaded without it (OBSE uses a whole set of instructions the engine doesn't know as to deal with).

 

Another thing is the weapon you use, they have three factors you can't see all in the game: weight, speed and reach. weight affects the fatigue (better say stamina) loss while speed is the rate the weapon swings. Obviously clicking the mouse quickly doesn't help increasing that speed and maybe, just maybe, the clicks between the animations are just ignored, the timer reaches the limit and delivers a power attack. The only impact from OBSE in this situation is it introduces the cycles need to parse the current instruction in the flow so to verify is one from it. If so OBSE will process it, else the control goes to the engine. OBSE doesn't change or mess with vanilla instructions in any way.

 

You can test this information trying to click in compass with the animation swing, maybe you'll find it to be much more effective than blind clicking the mouse.

 

Edit: FPS under 20 is bad news and spoil the game fun more than graphical quality beauty. Under 15 is a sign you need/must do something about ASAP. You can aways accept 15FPS while wandering but in battles is near unbearable.

 

This guide is one of the better I ever saw about tweaking the machine for Oblivion. The page in the link explains as to direct the game at using dual core processors, that really help. The whole guide is a must read.

[SoulReaver911]

Please post your load order. At first glance I think you aren't even using any mod that depends on OBSE since the game would crash if loaded without it (OBSE uses a whole set of instructions the engine doesn't know as to deal with).

 

Of course I have mod(s) (one that I'm using right now) that require it

 

Not sure how you missed that.

 

The mod that requires OBSE is Smarter Mercantile Leveling. This mod is a somewhat complicated mercantile skill modifier, where it allows you to gain mercantile points with a more reasonable system.

Load Order:

Oblivion.esm
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
Knights.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
RenGuardOverhaul.esp
RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.esp
UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp
Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
Quest Award Leveller.esp
Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp
Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp
Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp
BetterImperfectWater.esp
Natural_Vegetation_200%_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Weather_by_Max_Tael.esp
No More Annoying Messages.esp
DB_NightMotherMoney1k.esp
ln.esp
Brighter_Torches.esp
Battlespire Books.esp
DaggerfallBooks.esp
Encyclopaedia Cyrodilica.esp
FirstEditionGuidetotheEmpire.esp
Guide Books.esp
Akatosh Mount By Saiden Storm.esp
MorrowindBooks.esp
more books teach.esp
mnp Nighteye Goggles.esp
Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
GlenvarCastle.esp
The Lost Spires.esp
Smarter Mercantile Leveling - Multi.esp

 

Another point of interest, when I deactivate SML, and run Oblivion through OBSE, the game does not crash.

 

Another thing is the weapon you use, they have three factors you can't see all in the game: weight, speed and reach. weight affects the fatigue (better say stamina) loss while speed is the rate the weapon swings. Obviously clicking the mouse quickly doesn't help increasing that speed and maybe, just maybe, the clicks between the animations are just ignored, the timer reaches the limit and delivers a power attack. The only impact from OBSE in this situation is it introduces the cycles need to parse the current instruction in the flow so to verify is one from it. If so OBSE will process it, else the control goes to the engine. OBSE doesn't change or mess with vanilla instructions in any way.

 

During the test between using OBSE and not, I used the same weapon so that's not the issue here. And yes it happens with other weapons too. You'll notice in my very first post I mentioned that quite clearly.

 

You can test this information trying to click in compass with the animation swing, maybe you'll find it to be much more effective than blind clicking the mouse.

 

Yes, I've already tried that. It happens less, but still happens, and the reason I was "blindly clicking" was to conform to a controlled test. I did this during both tests to help accuracy. Besides, that's not how I play the game so it's not really a permanent solution.

 

Edit: FPS under 20 is bad news and spoil the game fun more than graphical quality beauty. Under 15 is a sign you need/must do something about ASAP. You can aways accept 15FPS while wandering but in battles is near unbearable.

 

Quite so, I agree. However, I chose the laggiest place I could find in the game for the test, to prove that it was infact not lag causing it, but rather something to do with OBSE. My average fps out doors is 28. Indoors 60. Is that below standards?

 

This guide is one of the better I ever saw about tweaking the machine for Oblivion. The page in the link explains as to direct the game at using dual core processors, that really help. The whole guide is a must read.

Yes, I frequent TweakGuides often. A life saver back in the day when I had a computer that could barely comprehend this game.

[nosisab]

I didn't meant to offend when I said about blindly clicking, what I said was this doesn't help figuring a issue other than helping to create it. I wasn't saying about FPS as the main problem, I was saying about "lag" meaning the time your click is performed toward when it is accepted. Under big lag it just doesn't even acknown.

 

Under the conditions you present the issue it is to be expected, the solution is avoiding those conditions happening.

 

Stressing about OBSE: It doesn't mess with the vanilla instruction codes. It's part in the issue is it increase yet slightly the overhead but under that stress it can be just enough to push your CPU beyond capacity. Aside, if a mod use any OBSE instruction and it isn't present the game will crash simply because the engine is unable to recognize that instruction.

What matter here is: If a mod depend on OBSE you can't run the game without it, this is paramount, not a matter of choice.

If there isn't such dependence... so OBSE is just superfluous to the case.

 

Edit: This lag issue isn't directly dependent on the FPS, it may occurs even with FPS above 20 and is where the "rendering ahead" option (hid in the forceware, need special tweaking) for nvidia users is sometimes advised being reduced to 2 or even less.

 

About the weapon, I know you used the same in the test and again, what is said there was just quickly clicking wouldn't help increasing it's speed, albeit this could worsen the lag problem.