How exactly does armor weight, etc, affect Sneak?

[JackDigital]

I've already read the UESP Wiki, the in-game documentation, and everything on Google, but can't find anything more concrete than "heavy armor/weapons penalizes Sneak".

 

How, specifically, is Sneak affected by each the following factors, if at all:

 

1. Armor type (heavy vs light vs cloth)

2. Armor weight (in pounds)

3. The Sneak perk Muffled Movement

4. The Sneak perk Silence

5. The Light Armor perk Unhindered

6. The Heavy Armor perk Conditioning

7. Weapon weight (in pounds)

8. Weapon size (two-handed vs dagger)

9. Striking with a weapon

10. Having a weapon drawn

11. The Muffle spell

12. The Muffle armor enchantment

[Rabbit1251]

I've just been going by common sense, but as we all know the game mechanics are not bound by that. I would enjoy knowing these answers myself.

 

 

Rabbit

[SubjectProphet]

Weapons make sound, armor clanks against the floor. Common sense there.

 

 

Muffling is not.

[Rabbit1251]

In Oblivion it was the weight of your boots. You could ponce around in full Deadric heavy armour and to be a good sneak you only had to go barefoot. Common sense didn't apply there.

 

 

Rabbit

[vertex23]

As people have said. But the AI is so stupid when it comes to sneak detection that it doesn't really matter what you wear when you hit Sneak 50-ish.

[bpestilence]

According to the load screen screen detection is controlled by the weight of your armor, the line of sight, the speed you are moving, and the lighting.

 

Of course, you can have Dawnbreaker glowing white hot an inch from a Vampire and he won't see you, so I think they mean lighting spells and ambiant lighting.

 

In general, the above would be seperated into a sound multiplier and a sight multiplier. I have no proof of this, but I beleive this is still the case with blind enemies such as Falmer. Their ability to "smell" you is still LOS based.

 

The sounds multiplier can be affected by all the relevant perks. If you wear advanced DB boots and have the running perk, you will be silent even if you are wearing full Daedric. However, ONLY the sneak skill (and the top sneak perk) affect how well you can remain hidden from sight.

 

And, even if you are silent, if your companion tips off an enemy, they are LOOKING for you, not listening for you. So, even if you are a master sneak, if you are not in shadow, they will find you.

[JackDigital]

I've found some useful information at the Creation Kit wiki here:

http://www.creationkit.com/Category:Detection

http://www.creationkit.com/Stealth_Points

 

According to wiki user Henning, you have "stealth points" which are like stamina but for being spotted. They reduce when someone is looking for you, and when they drop to 0 you are spotted. If you're well hidden, you lose Stealth Points more slowly and regenerate them more quickly when the enemy stops looking.

 

When you move, the weight of your equipped armour (and other items perhaps) makes it harder to sneak. (I'm not sure whether "weight" means the weight in pounds, or the weight class of Light/Heavy.) Attacking also makes noise, though the article doesn't say how weapon weight affects it. An arrow makes noise where it hits. If you don't move or attack, you make zero noise.

 

Equipped items have no effect on being visually spotted. (Black robes, naked, holding Dawnbreaker, whatever.) The only things that affect being spotted visually are the light level, the amount of moving you're doing, and whether you're invisible to the opponent or not (e.g. no line of sight, invisibility spell, or target is blind).

 

Unrelatedly (but I thought this was interesting), the Creation Kit has the armour values. For the armour body piece, Daedric (49) is better than Dragonplate (46), followed by Ebony (43), Dragonscale (41), Steel Plate (40), Glass (38), Elven Gilded (35), Dwarven (34), Scaled (32), Steel (31), Elven (29), Banded (28), Leather (26), Iron and Imperial (25), Studded, Imperial Studded, Imperial Light and Whiterun Guard (23), Stormcloak (21) and Hide (20).

 

There's actually a better armour than Daedric: the Guild Master's Armor (ArmorThievesGuildLeaderCuirassMercer) has a rating of 50.

[robanybody2000]

If you invest in the weightless perk of heavy armor branch, suddenly sneaking in heavy armor is better than sneaking in light armor. Wich is stupid because at high levels light armor is pointless even for thieve/assassin characters.

 

Think this scenario: You are a two-handed warrior with tons of health wearing heavy armor and packed with potions. After about 20-25 sessions of clubing (meaning getting clubed by a giant not drinking in all taverns from 3 cities while listening to "Rengar the Red"), you achive 100 skill points in heavy armor giving you the posibility for weightless armor. Unequip the giant swor/hammer/axe and you are a better thief than most thieves guild members. After sneaking arround a bit and investing minimum to no perks in sneak you can be considered a propper thief even by player's standards not only NPC's standards. So what is the point of Light Armor other than common sense of the players to wear it if they are the sneaky type an in some cases looks? (because enchantments that favorize stealth can be applied to heavy armor aswell, by yourself with greater effect than the crap you find laying arround)

 

"Thieves Guild Master Armor" sounds good for sneaky types?Yes, until about lvl 30-ish, after that with good enchanting skills a dwarven stove works just as well.

 

BTW. I have a level 54 Warrior (among other chars). Heavy Armor, sword and shield type, with Enchanting and Smithing and can make IRON armor way better than that Brotherhood crap they give you. (and they'r an order of assassins, would have thought they favor stealth ans such)

Edited May 18, 2012 by robanybody2000

[JackDigital]

I've been looking in the Creation Kit for what the perks actually do. No doubt someone else has worked this out before, but I can't find it myself.

 

Both Conditioning (for light armour) and Unhindered (for heavy armour) work the same way. It has a property called Mod Armor Weight, with a function that sets the value to 0. It affects a worn helmet, body piece, boots and gauntlets, but not shields. Perhaps shields produce no sound when worn.

 

This means that if sneaking sound is based on armour weight class, the perks do nothing for Sneak, but if it's based on armour weight in pounds, then you sneak as if wearing no clothing. If the Detection article on the Creation Kit wiki is accurate, your movement sound is (12 + 0.5 * armor weight), or (12 + 2 * armor weight) when running, and no other worn or carried items affect sneaking.

 

The Sneak perk Muffled Movement just gives you an ability called PerkMuffledMovement, which provides no information on how it works. The Sneak perk Silence is the same way.

 

This still leaves the question of whether armour weight or armour weight class affects sneaking, and how accurate the Creation Kit wiki article is (it seems based on the equivalent article at the Fallout 3 Creation Kit wiki, which was written by one of the lead developers (but the changes to the Skyrim article were by another author, so it's possible they're not as reliable). It's also still up in the air how weapon type or weight affects the amount of sound produced when it strikes.