OBSE

[Vagrant0]

This is a rather offensive post / poll.

 

If the hard work of someone, (given for free) is giving you problems, why not let THEM know about it or just not use it.

 

This is really unfair to the people behind such a terrific tool.

Well you see, he isn't making any such claims, and is not pointing the finger at those behind OBSE. He is merely asking if problems related to it are common. That is more than a fair question since often the view whenever it has been mentioned that people have OBSE are are complaining about problems, the view is almost always skewed toward that person with problems having screwed up their game, and not anything related specifically to OBSE. If people, here, mention issues which they have come across, it can be viewed by others and those issues can be looked at from a much larger perspective in hopes of finding common problems regardless of what mods are in use. As there are no specific issues to mention related to just OBSE, it would be a waste of time to even bother anyone related to the OBSE project about them as those people are likely not involved in any way with whatever is causing a particular problem.

 

And clearly you don't know who you're talking to. LogintoDownload would be one of those people who puts work out for free, along with the majority of other people who have chimmed in on this thread. They understand completely what is involved with making a mod. The goal of this thread was entirely just to see if anyone had any issues that could be traced to OBSE, and not a mod which wasn't installed/loaded right, or just plain bad scripting.

 

On that note, never used OBSE myself, never had a reason to. Most of the issues I recall seeing were either the fault of mods or the people using those mods. Although that thread which mentioned OBSE causing some lag which caused attacks to be counted as power attacks seemed to hint at some deeper issue, it appeared to be more of a "straw that breaks the Guar's back" sort of case, where just the additional caching that OBSE does in order to make its functions work lowered the response time within his game to make attacks misfire like that.

 

The real problem with OBSE is that it has become seen as something everyone HAS to use, and because of this mods which use it may not be using the functions in ways which are safe just to make an effect work. On their own, they may not cause any problems, but when combined with other mods which affect those same variables, like streamline, deadly reflexes, and other far-reaching mods, can create total havok within a game. And as usual, either these changes aren't documented within the mod description, or nobody pays attention. And these sorts of things don't show up in conflict reports, so often go unnoticed until the game gets totally screwed over. Which was, and still is, my main contention with OBSE, the lack of good mods which don't use it, and the abundance of poorly designed mods which use it when they don't have to.

 

And a bad OBSE version wouldn't be entirely impossible. It's actually suprising that within the history of OBSE that there havn't been more cases of things being broken, although there have been functions that were removed, most of those have gone unnoticed.

[shadowace]

This is a rather offensive post / poll.

 

If the hard work of someone, (given for free) is giving you problems, why not let THEM know about it or just not use it.

 

This is really unfair to the people behind such a terrific tool.

Well you see, he isn't making any such claims, and is not pointing the finger at those behind OBSE. He is merely asking if problems related to it are common. That is more than a fair question since often the view whenever it has been mentioned that people have OBSE are are complaining about problems, the view is almost always skewed toward that person with problems having screwed up their game, and not anything related specifically to OBSE. If people, here, mention issues which they have come across, it can be viewed by others and those issues can be looked at from a much larger perspective in hopes of finding common problems regardless of what mods are in use. As there are no specific issues to mention related to just OBSE, it would be a waste of time to even bother anyone related to the OBSE project about them as those people are likely not involved in any way with whatever is causing a particular problem.

 

And clearly you don't know who you're talking to. LogintoDownload would be one of those people who puts work out for free, along with the majority of other people who have chimmed in on this thread. They understand completely what is involved with making a mod. The goal of this thread was entirely just to see if anyone had any issues that could be traced to OBSE, and not a mod which wasn't installed/loaded right, or just plain bad scripting.

 

On that note, never used OBSE myself, never had a reason to. Most of the issues I recall seeing were either the fault of mods or the people using those mods. Although that thread which mentioned OBSE causing some lag which caused attacks to be counted as power attacks seemed to hint at some deeper issue, it appeared to be more of a "straw that breaks the Guar's back" sort of case, where just the additional caching that OBSE does in order to make its functions work lowered the response time within his game to make attacks misfire like that.

 

The real problem with OBSE is that it has become seen as something everyone HAS to use, and because of this mods which use it may not be using the functions in ways which are safe just to make an effect work. On their own, they may not cause any problems, but when combined with other mods which affect those same variables, like streamline, deadly reflexes, and other far-reaching mods, can create total havok within a game. And as usual, either these changes aren't documented within the mod description, or nobody pays attention. And these sorts of things don't show up in conflict reports, so often go unnoticed until the game gets totally screwed over. Which was, and still is, my main contention with OBSE, the lack of good mods which don't use it, and the abundance of poorly designed mods which use it when they don't have to.

 

And a bad OBSE version wouldn't be entirely impossible. It's actually suprising that within the history of OBSE that there havn't been more cases of things being broken, although there have been functions that were removed, most of those have gone unnoticed.

 

Umm umm, wow nicely said Vagrant. I agree 100% I personally don't use OBSE just because it never caught my eye.

[GenghisKhanIT]

I started using OBSE mainly to take advantage from such a useful gem as is Streamline.

 

I voted for the "No problem" thing, because the game crashed before it and kept crashing after, so I think OBSE's contribution is null. I have to admit that I use very few mods based on it apart from the former.

[nosisab]

I started using OBSE mainly to take advantage from such a useful gem as is Streamline.

 

I voted for the "No problem" thing, because the game crashed before it and kept crashing after, so I think OBSE's contribution is null. I have to admit that I use very few mods based on it apart from the former.

This poll turned another I can't vote because there is no single response I agree. I think it must be closed and redone in the premises. I think OBSE must be isolated from bad usage in mods as much as the vanilla engine itself must be.

 

The problem is judging OBSE this way is unfair. The end user doesn't even understand why he use it, to him OBSE is another mod. Any mod he get that uses OBSE turns to be OBSE mod, what yet arguable isn't truly correct. If such mod misbehave "maybe" is a flawed OBSE function, this is a possible thing, mainly with the experimental versions that shouldn't be used to publish mods. And if so, the modder must make CLEAR about the use of such version in the start of the description. But often is just bad scripted mod, more commonly is just the user fault to do a correct install.

 

Well, what I'm saying is mods must be judged by themselves. Judging OBSE is possible, of course, but this can't be done based in mods produced with it.

An end user haven't the knowhow to judge it without bias. I saw cases were it was dean guilt in setups that didn't even used mods depending on it. The only ones that can judge OBSE with fairness are the actual modders, able to trace issues in mod doing leading to flaws in the functions itself.

[LHammonds]

I have to agree with nosisab about the poll being somewhat unfair but I understand why you started it.

 

The problem is that OBSE is a middle-ware application and simply installing it and using it will not actually do anything for you.

 

The problems and compatibility issues (besides the installation process itself) would present themselves from mods that make use of OBSE and the possibilities of interaction problems between multiple OBSE-enabled mods.

 

So it seems that the more pertanent poll / post questions would be about the following:

 

How many OBSE-enabled mods are you running?

What are the OBSE-enabled mods you are running (and their version numbers)?

Are you having any difficulties with this setup?

etc.

 

It would be more interesting to see a useful fact-finding search that seeks to find out what OBSE-enabled mods work at the same time without known problems as well as finding mod combinations that are known to cause problems...with the results getting back to the authors to see if there is a way to resolve the compatibility issues and such.

 

Well, that's my 2 septims.

 

LHammonds