Who are the "Good Guys" in this war?

[Kraeten]

Oh no, if Ulfric helped the Dunmer he'd be creating a welfare state. He'd be a socialist! Maybe I missed it, but when was this thread hijacked by reactionary neo-cons? Next thing I'm going to hear, is America is still #1 and Obama caused the economy to crash. :facepalm:

[abc222]

Couldn't the dunmer establish their own city somewhere distant and isolated? They are alreayd used to harsh conditions, they won't have to deal with the locals and they would retain their culture. All those haughty dunmer could move to the city and guard it with their ancestors' spirits. They won't meddle in political affairs and keep to themselves. I see nothing wrong with this solution.

 

Out of the question--who would they blame if they did that?

 

The nords. Dunmer are dunmer.

 

@abc222

 

Actually, I think the Dunmer establishing their own city is an *Excellent* idea. That would pretty much solve the problem in itself. That puts their fate in their hands and keeps them out of the sh*t. Good Call abc222! But... but... Skyrim Belongs to the Nords, remember? Yeah I know. we have Orc cities already, which the Empire settled them in, not the Nords and even they have contributed much to Skyrim. Well... at least as long as Ulfric doesn't get his way that is.

 

 

If they are raided and/or harassed too long in their ghetto they may burrow in tombs and regress to necromancery. Secluded city is the best option. The empire will have to understand that if it wants any dunmer battlemages (and assassins) in the next war.

[BrettM]

I am NOT advocating a welfare nanny state you leftist @#&*.

 

Maybe I missed it, but when was this thread hijacked by reactionary neo-cons?

ROTFL. So, which is it? Am I a leftist piece of trash or a reactionary neo-con? I must be doing something right if I'm accused of both for the same view. I'll give you a hint: the true answer is neither, and I am against welfare states whether they come from left-wing socialists or right-wing socialists.

[Kraeten]

ROTFL. So, which is it? Am I a leftist piece of trash or a reactionary neo-con? I must be doing something right if I'm accused of both for the same view. I'll give you a hint: the true answer is neither, and I am against welfare states whether they come from left-wing socialists or right-wing socialists.

 

Actually my remark was geared towards all of you. The fact some of you are bringing modern politics into this discussion is just plain laughable. Bigmagy wasn't helping the situation either by throwing out the knee jerk insult. An insult I might add that I'd expect to hear from Rush Limbaugh...not in a thread about a medieval themed game lol.

 

Edit: And seriously, did you just type right-wing socialist? Now there's a picture, lmao. XD Thanks for that mental image.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Kraeten

[MacSuibhne]

ROTFL. So, which is it? Am I a leftist piece of trash or a reactionary neo-con? I must be doing something right if I'm accused of both for the same view. I'll give you a hint: the true answer is neither, and I am against welfare states whether they come from left-wing socialists or right-wing socialists.

 

It doesn't seem to make any difference what you or anyone says; no amount of verifiable Lore or fact (dictionary definitions, etc) or logic is acceptable. The response is always something along the lines of "no, it isn't, yes, it is", "no, I'm not, you are" and/or "don't confuse me with the facts you leftist poopyhead". Perhaps the more honest (and honourable) response from these folks would be a simple "neener, neener."

 

The responses are so immature (regardless of chronological age) that no objective, intelligent conversation can be had.

I don't know why we bother to answer such emotionally charged incoherence. For me, I've done that and I don't really want to go back there again.

Edited July 3, 2012 by MacSuibhne

[StormHammer81]

LMAO. Oh you guys are just too much sometimes.

 

@Brett

 

You're not a piece of Trash bro and I'm not in favor of a welfare state. Besides, I don't think it really matters what we think because Bethesda and the damn Gov are going to do what they're going to do... Alrighty? :devil:

 

@MAC

 

"We'll hug later..." :wallbash:

 

@Kraeten

 

He's no worse then MSNBC.

 

 

!!! HAPPY 4TH OF JULY EVERYONE !!! :thumbsup:

Edited July 4, 2012 by bigmagy1981

[StayFrosty05]

Oh no, if Ulfric helped the Dunmer he'd be creating a welfare state. He'd be a socialist! Maybe I missed it, but when was this thread hijacked by reactionary neo-cons? Next thing I'm going to hear, is America is still #1 and Obama caused the economy to crash. :facepalm:

 

 

I'm glad someone has said it....Thank you Kraeten....I have been looking on in horror at this unfolding.....Just relieved I live in Australia where I can still help people and not be condemned for it.

[Freyrgjurd]

Wow, I stop looking and fire burns the village o.o

 

Anyway, now the topic are the Dunmer ? Leave them alone, like they want too.

But I still think that modern politics / socialism / way of thinking is not fit for the game.

 

Racism, socialism, neo-captalism... bla bla bla. This is a medieval-style game.

And more, it's just a game. It's nice to discuss some aspects and conjure some opinions... but wrestle over who is the "most right" over assumptions...

 

Put your theory together, expose it... and accept the criticism. Goes both ways.

 

As for me, I still think it's undeniable the fact that the game want you to choose based on your morale/ethics and choice of heart. It brings you passion up to it...

 

Well done Beth, well done...

[RighthandofSithis]

Well, I've haven't been on for a few days, and people are now arguing about welfare states and socialism.

 

I will happily partake in an argument about socialism, communism and capitalism.

 

But back to the issue at hand: Skyrim.

 

I wish to make it clear. ULFRIC IS NOT A SOCIALIST OR A COMMUNIST. There is no such thing in the elder scrolls universe. The dominant political systems are semi-feudalism (there is a significant capitalist influence as well), Imperialism, and you could argue that the Thalmor are fascist (according to the Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism: http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm). I don't think Ulfric is fascist. He is a nationalist, but I would go so far as to describe him as fascist.

 

And as a Communist, I would support the Dunmer establishing their own commune. Self sufficient and independent from the rest of Tamriel. And why would they need to place it in Skyrim? It could be near Cheydinhal, or Solstheim (where the rest of the dunmer fled).

 

EDIT: A right wing 'socialist' is called a fascist.

 

EDIT: Regarding fascism, the Thalmor do not seem to display points 5 and 11.

Edited July 4, 2012 by RighthandofSithis

[BrettM]

I wish to make it clear. ULFRIC IS NOT A SOCIALIST OR A COMMUNIST.

Well, no. That was the point I was trying to make. One can't reasonably criticize a feudal ruler like Ulfric for failing to implement socialist, communist, or fascist solutions to social problems in his domain. Expecting a jarl in Skyrim to come up with the idea of job programs -- essentially a start at centralized management of the economy -- is unrealistic for the political system of their time and place. Ulfric may or may not be a bad guy, but if he is, it isn't because of his failure to take such actions.