An independent New Vegas mod.

[devinpatterson]

Some good ideas on here ! I like how you can tell the NCR to f**k off and then extort money from them using Hoover Dam. This would also apply to a House ending as well wouldnt it?

It comes directly from the House faction ending. Here is a reprint of it;

Order of Withdrawal

 

 

TO GENERAL OLIVER (or highest-ranking survivor)

 

TO THE NCR PRESIDENT

 

TO THE NCR COUNCIL

 

FROM ROBERT EDWIN HOUSE

 

As Chief Executive of the Free Economic Zone of New Vegas, I hereby demand the IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL of all NCR military personnel from New Vegas and its surrounding territories.

 

a) Yes, "all military personnel" includes NCR Rangers.

 

b) "New Vegas and its surrounding territories" includes (but is not limited to) Hoover Dam, McCarran International Airport, HELIOS One, and the El Dorado substation.

 

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE that my vast army of heavily-armed Securitrons has been rather inflexibly programmed to respond to acts of aggression with overwhelming force.

 

a) For examples of "heavily-armed" and "overwhelming force," I will refer you to the pitiless campaign of extermination my Securitrons will have visited upon Caesar's Legion by the time you are reading this document.

 

b) Any NCR military personnel who do not withdraw from New Vegas and its territories will be seen as committing an "act of aggression."

 

NCR civilians are NOT subject to this order of withdrawal! They may visit New Vegas freely, enjoying all that the Vegas Strip has to offer!

 

So long as NCR military personnel comply with this order to withdraw, electricity and water will continue to flow from Hoover Dam to the NCR.

 

a) Electricity: 5 caps per kilowatt hour.

 

b) Water: 5 caps per gallon

 

The NCR Council's Office of Budget will receive invoices bi-weekly. Prices are subject to change without notice.

 

Cordially,

 

Robert Edwin House

Chief Executive

Free Economic Zone of New Vegas

 

 

 

The Offer to permit annexation is also in the game but is cut content. It is however useful (as I mentioned) for players that just don't want to deal with anything above run and gun, or that didn't activate the securitron army (blew the securitron vault) and don't have the firepower to securely back up NV's independence.

The option to continue the New Vegas Treaty was added by us to provide a end game for players that are generally pro NCR, but don't see NV as a new NCR state.

The Declaration of War was also added by us to simulate some degree of freedom, so that you have a wide range from positive, to negative in how the player relates to the NCR.

 

As you probably read on the other message board we were talking about the smaller factions and what they would do, what are your thoughts on that?

My focus has primarily been on the major factions but I have some thoughts on the BOS and followers. Although the BOS are considered a minor faction they are one of the most powerful of that level and figure prominently into the end slides as well. One example of my favorite end game results with teh BOS is the baby ED-Es (which is just plain awesome). I posted it in the other thread, but here are 4 prototype models for the jr. ED-Es I made;

Pic;

 

 

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/ED-Eampchild_zps511e6579.jpg

 

 

 

But there are also other end game results tied to the BOS with HELIOS One, BOS patrols and more.

 

I'v made some notes re: the other factions, but most of the best info is in this thread itself (which I need to go through and catalog), from other users.

 

 

I'd imagine the NCR sending assasins and mercs after you though in any event, given that the NCR is rampant with corruption and with the Courier and Yes Man/House out the way they could come in and try to annex it again.

It really depends on the direction the player chooses in regard to NCR relations. Here is a breakdown as I see it for each option;

 

Pro/New Vegas Treaty:

If you continue to uphold the New Vegas Treaty, it's very favorable to the NCR. This is especially true if you'v upgraded the securitrons and have access to the increased securitron army, as you'v become a powerful ally in a region where they desperately need military support. Under this scenario they'r also reaping 95% (+ or - any additional concessions the player has been able to achieve) of Hoovers resources and also have the potential to put a much more positive spin on the Mojave campaign (saving Kimball's butt).

 

All in all a very sweet deal for the NCR. I think it's very, very unlikely they'll risk loosing that. The NCR may be a super power on the west coast, but they are spread thin and currently engaged in a all out war with a ruthless enemy. They can't spare the troops it would take to bring down 200+ heavily armed securitrons in semi fortified positions. They had a hard time stationing the troops at hoover for the second battle, and that was a smaller force of legion. Long story short, if the assassination attempt was botched they have *everything* to loose and very little to gain over what they already have. If the player was killed, they could gain some more juice and h20 (5%), as well as taxes on the strip.....not a huge boon. I'm doubtful they have hte capacity to usurp the securtron army as their experience with bots is limited, and I seriously doubt there are any NCR hacking experts that can overide or defeat House's security protocols. In hindsight it's kind of surprising that a follower was able to, but I suspect that's more due to creative license (otherwise we couldn't have a independent NV story line).

 

Pro/Offer to permit annexation:

pretty much same as above.

 

Neutral/Order of Withdrawal:

The NCR has more to gain in this scenario, but still faces some potentially very serious negative consequences if the assassination goes wrong. NCR civilians are on the strip as possible collateral damage or hostages, the Dam's h20 and juice could be permanently cut off from the core regions, and another front in a long war could be opened to the east, via the securitron army. All things that could have a disastrous affect on a new NCR administration (remember the Kimball administration would, most likely, no longer be in office under this scenario). I think they would still be very, very cautious in re: to assassination.

 

Con/Declaration of War:

Yes, everyone kills everyone, assassination or otherwise, it's a sanctioned, but ruthless bloodbath.

 

I think another point to keep in mind is that *if* the NCR was ruthless/lawless it could have removed House from power long ago. If the Legion scouts had been the first to stumble upon Hoover, instead of the NCR, things would have unfolded very differently in history. There's not a lot of MK I securitrons, and although tough for bots, I believe the MK I's would be unlikely to stand against a legion assault. There would have been no treaty and no mercy for NV from the Legion.

 

When the first NCR scouts found Hoover it wasn't even functional, it was NCR tech and manpower that made it operational. I think this factored heavily into the New Vegas Treaty. Since the treaty was created, to teh best of our knowledge, the NCR has honored it. It's unlikely there was any attempted assassinations of House, even though he was only guarded by a small number of securitrons (and limited accessibility). So you have a super power, one of the biggest forces on teh west coast, numbering roughly 7 million souls. A true juggernaut, matched only by the Legion or possibly the midwest BOS in the four coners region. They could have rolled right over House, but they upheld the treaty.

 

That's not to say the NCR doesn't have corrupt elements, corrupt politicians are a story as old as time, but in teh wasteland they are something unique......a true republic. As far as I know no other group, faction or state upholds the same democratic values (well democratic republic) and wields the power the NCR does. They'r not angels, but in a land of devils they stand out.

[devinpatterson]

Instead of appearing in a room with the ending slide narrator or on the railway track leading to the Emergency Service Railyard (where the final slide places the Courier) I think that the player should start at the Legate's Camp

 

Yeah I think that's the best spot for those players that have just completed the game.

 

However most of our players are going to have finished the 2nd battle of Hoover long ago, and gone on to many an adventure. For those players (let's call them veteran players) I think a simple dialog with Yesman is the best choice for picking up where they left off. It's easy to differentiate among those two types of players via script. It does however leave out a lot of the immediate after affects as seen in the slides (the riots, for example), so our veteran players will miss out on some content. But I think it's probably better to skip them, than to do a time warp and have a player that's been adventuring for over a year thrown back into the past, minutes after the victory of the second battle of Hoover.

 

If we go this way (for the Veteran players) we can implement the base mod (everyone is already out, similar to teh order of withdrawal) and our veteran players can approach Yesman at any time, in the same standard format as per all his previous quests. The dialog will be a similar style, with Yesman laying out choices (much like he did before) and the player can choose New Vegas Treaty, Order of Withdrawal etc. I think they are delivered/communicated to teh highest ranking NCR military official in the House ver of the Order of Withdrawal, by the player. So something similar might be the way to implement the quest for the Ind ver.

If you choose the Order of Withdrawal nothing much changes (it's already implemented), you'r just delivering teh official paperwork (along with a platoon of MK II's).

If you choose the Pro NCR choices I can start re-enabling the NCR personal. That can be done slowly over days or weeks if we want it to appear more realistic.

If you choose the Declaration of War, you deliver the paperwork then have the option of leaving after which all NCR factions change to aggressive or just open firing on any and all NCR peeps.

 

For the players that just finished the game, we can have a much smoother transition, because Yesman can lay out these choices right after the slideshow in teh fort/camp (and we don't have to implement clearing out the NCR immediately, since the player hasn't officially made a choice). Once the player has his/her choices/quests, then Yesman can go on hiatus. Yesman's hiatus can be short lived, and his down time doesn't really affect any of the choices relating to the NCR because the player is delivering teh good/bad news to the NCR personally. But most likely the player will be finishing up some other, end game quests that are (relatively) unrelated to the NCR first (the riots, giving chase to Legion fleeing to cottonwood, possibly repelling or reasoning the BOS out of taking HELIOS One, etc).

 

Yesman will be needed to coordinate any strategic movement of the securitrons (as he is your liaison between the PC adn the securitron network) , say for instance in the case of war with the NCR, but he can be up and running before hostilities get into full swing. And he doesn't have to be active to gather a platoon of Securitrons to escort the player, any single securitron can receive and implement that order from the PC.

 

 

where he/she is approached by Marilyn the Securitron.

 

Marilyn has a very specific lore, and initially follows some of the character attributes of Jane, so she's not really a good candidate for the Ind ending. In addition I like using Yesman because it provides continuity, and a standard format for handing out quests in the mod.

 

 

I know Devin has another option in mind to allow the NCR to remain in the Mojave and keep control of Hoover Dam similar to House's old arrangement with the NCR. I will admit that I'm not too fond of this third option as it defeats the purpose of going for the Independence ending when the player can support the NCR for the same result.

 

I thought we had hammered out that option early in the thread, partly because you had wanted a NCR friendly/ally option, or maybe I'm just mis-remembering. Or was it a specific part you objected too, like sharing the Dam, as opposed to the general alliance concept?

 

Well crap, running out of time. I'll try to post tonight and hit some of the points/ideas your brought up Devilman.

[Degby1]

Yeah choosing the Yes Man / House route seems a bit pointless if your going to let them annex you anyway. Might as well be for an NCR End Game scenario.

 

Having a trade agreement involving the Dam would be more sensible, as the NCR no longer has an expiditionary force or large military presence in the Mojave but allows NCR citizens to visit. No doubt a few of those "citizens" would be NCR Agents who would approach you for various means. I'd imagine any NCR military deserter/defector would feel safe and would offer their services in a defence force, or even go onto become bandits or organised private security groups who could act as ally's or antagonists even.

 

What would the implications be for killing Kimball and/or Lee. If Kimball falls, House no longer has a scapegoat as does Yes Man which would no doubt lead to reprisals. If Lee falls, even the NCR military don't have much respect for him so if a leader like Colonel Hsu gets in he might decide to leave the Mojave alone. If Colonel Moore gets into power the you can expect to go to war with the NCR.

 

If both fall, the NCR would have to fix the power vacuum left by the duo which would also lead to the Mojave being left alone for the immediate future, with a possible second invasion in due course. It could be that a Courier gives you a War Declaration from the NCR High Command in which you have to fight off waves of NCR troops coming from the Mojave Outpost at various times, triggered in the same way the Second Hoover Dam battle was triggered by talking to Yes Man/House/Marilyn/Fill in the blank.

 

The Legion on the other hand would be a case of either small un-cordinated groups or a new leader sending troops to make a name for himself. Although I think its generally accepted that with Caesar and Lanius dead, the Legion errupts into a civil war and new tribes are formed from the remnants.

 

Either way, new antagonist/ally groups can be formed from both NCR and Legion dependent on choices.

 

 

I saw the BoS Eyebots, looks impressive thus far, I think you were talking about having them built regardless if you took ED-E to the Followers or not. I guess we would see BoS patrols like in Fallout 3, only shaking people down for tech instead of making water deliveries. You could have the option of speaking to them directly, either through negotiation or "Terryfying Prescence" to convince them to stop. Or speak to McNamara or Hardin directly.

 

As for the Boomers, keeping them supplied in artillery and in return being able to call on them for Air Support could be an option.

 

Any thoughts on the economy after the war? Such as managing the Casinos and reporting profits or loses based on how you deal with the NCR. I think being able to extort money from Cachino if he's still alive would be fun as would taking over the Ultra Luxe if you wiped them out in Beyond the Beef, like I did !

Edited February 11, 2015 by Narmz

[Devilman1975]

However most of our players are going to have finished the 2nd battle of Hoover long ago, and gone on to many an adventure. For those players (let's call them veteran players) I think a simple dialog with Yesman is the best choice for picking up where they left off. It's easy to differentiate among those two types of players via script. It does however leave out a lot of the immediate after affects as seen in the slides (the riots, for example), so our veteran players will miss out on some content. But I think it's probably better to skip them, than to do a time warp and have a player that's been adventuring for over a year thrown back into the past, minutes after the victory of the second battle of Hoover.

 

I find it hard to believe that there is a significant number of players who have a saved game long after the game's end to justify a time skip. Whenever I played New Vegas I would only play up to the point before the final battle at the Dam starts if I wanted to continue running mods. If I go through with the final battle then it would usually means that I'll start a new game with a new character later or to test a mod if it requires a fresh playthrough.

 

 

Marilyn has a very specific lore, and initially follows some of the character attributes of Jane, so she's not really a good candidate for the Ind ending. In addition I like using Yesman because it provides continuity, and a standard format for handing out quests in the mod.

 

I'm not sure which lore you are referring to considering that Marilyn is only a character that was cut from the game and the only one who comments on her is Veronica who mentions how odd it is that Mr House has only two sexboats. If you've already got plans for Marilyn for the "House's revenge" part then fair enough. I only mentioned using Marilyn as a quest giver because we're going to be limited by how much dialogue we have to splice together for main characters when recieving quests. Additional characters will have to be created who can serve as envoys for the various factions in the game unless we are just get unvoiced dialogue for main characters.

 

 

I thought we had hammered out that option early in the thread, partly because you had wanted a NCR friendly/ally option, or maybe I'm just mis-remembering. Or was it a specific part you objected too, like sharing the Dam, as opposed to the general alliance concept?

 

It's really the whole idea of an NCR alliance in the Independence version that I'm against. As I said it goes against the whole point of choosing the Independent option. I also believe that not many people will choose this option when they can just play the NCR path and you would only be giving yourself extra work for an option that I believe nobody will pick. The only time I would want to see the NCR annex New Vegas in an Independent path as a result of the NCR war option going badly for the player.

 

What would the implications be for killing Kimball and/or Lee. If Kimball falls, House no longer has a scapegoat as does Yes Man which would no doubt lead to reprisals. If Lee falls, even the NCR military don't have much respect for him so if a leader like Colonel Hsu gets in he might decide to leave the Mojave alone. If Colonel Moore gets into power the you can expect to go to war with the NCR.

 

I mentioned something about the repercussions of killing Kimball earlier in the thread a while back.It should depend on wether the player was the one to kill Kimball, simply refused to save Kimball when Yes Man asked the player or simply let the Legion assasinate him. I like the idea regarding Moore and Hsu. If General Oliver is killed and Kimball is still alive to become a scapegoat I can see Hsu taking over. If both General Oliver and President Kimball are both dead then I can see Moore taking over.

[devinpatterson]

Securitrons need to be placed in Primm acting as security, and Victor needs to be relocated back to Goodsprings (House ending). Also, being able to access the command room in Remnants Bunker might be an idea, to gather data/ quest idea. I know this has been mentioned, but a Vault 21 overhaul and enabling the blackjack tables to operate.

 

 

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/2i2bn5/in_the_case_of_the_ncr_winning_at_the_second/

 

https://tcrf.net/Fallout:_New_Vegas/Unused_Dialog (Further down the page is the post ending dialogue)

 

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout:_New_Vegas_cut_content (Mentions a post HD Freeside mission that was never implemented)

 

http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=63796 (Notice Marilyn, the Omertas and Black Mountain)

[devinpatterson]

I find it hard to believe that there is a significant number of players who have a saved game long after the game's end to justify a time skip. Whenever I played New Vegas I would only play up to the point before the final battle at the Dam starts if I wanted to continue running mods. If I go through with the final battle then it would usually means that I'll start a new game with a new character later or to test a mod if it requires a fresh playthrough.

The game has been out over 5 yeas. Cage has over 67,000 downloads. I finished the game and continued playing less than a month after I bought the game. I'v been playing post end game characters since 2011.

 

I'm not sure which lore you are referring to considering that Marilyn is only a character that was cut from the game and the only one who comments on her is Veronica who mentions how odd it is that Mr House has only two sexboats. If you've already got plans for Marilyn for the "House's revenge" part then fair enough.

If your referring to the Marilyn that is on the Viva NV development page and part of this mod, Isabelle and I have countless PMs and skype logs in regard to her character and companion quests. If your refeering to just the cut content she was intended to be analogous to Jane, and loyal to House, making a poor courier/messenger for our player.

 

 

I only mentioned using Marilyn as a quest giver because we're going to be limited by how much dialogue we have to splice together for main characters when recieving quests. Additional characters will have to be created who can serve as envoys for the various factions in the game unless we are just get unvoiced dialogue for main characters.

Don't be concerned with limiting yourself in regard to dialog. I'd much, much rather have additional dialog that is unvoiced than be restricted to existing sound files. As the mod gains momentum voice actors can be found to voice new dialog, and imitate existing characters.

[devinpatterson]

Yeah choosing the Yes Man / House route seems a bit pointless if your going to let them annex you anyway. Might as well be for an NCR End Game scenario.

As I mentioned before there are players that don't want to deal with the more complicated aspects of the mod like warfare, resource management, kingdom building etc. This allows those players to lay that at the NCR's feet as their responsibility and enjoy simply owning the strip as top dog. No worries, far, far fewer responsibilities, and plenty of time to run and gun.

 

In addition it's important as a fall back for players that have really screwed the pooch, it might help them save their bacon.

 

Another aspect is those players that destroyed the securitron vault don't have troops (at least initially) to adequately protect NV from the NCR or Legion, and may require help from the NCR. It may seem oddthat one could pursue and Independent ending without the securitron army, but some players have done it.

 

Having a trade agreement involving the Dam would be more sensible,

Not too sure what you mean specifically, a option already exists for charging caps for h20 and electricity as mentioned in posts above. Unless your at war with the NCR, NCR caravan houses will continue to trade with NV, just as they did with House in control.

 

What would the implications be for killing Kimball and/or Lee.

&

 

I mentioned something about the repercussions of killing Kimball earlier in the thread a while back.It should depend on wether the player was the one to kill Kimball, simply refused to save Kimball when Yes Man asked the player or simply let the Legion assasinate him. I like the idea regarding Moore and Hsu. If General Oliver is killed and Kimball is still alive to become a scapegoat I can see Hsu taking over. If both General Oliver and President Kimball are both dead then I can see Moore taking over.

The NCR is a democratic republic, the chain of command for civilian and military leadership are separate. The civilian leadership's order of succession is President -> Vice President -> Speaker of the Senate and after that I don't know. The military leardership is by rank within a branch of service, but always second to the acting president (Commander in Chief). In the US (upon which the NCR constitution is based) they (military leadership) is also subject (ie under) to the Secretary of State. If the NCR has a Secretary of State then s/he would be next in the order of succession after the Speaker of the Senate.

 

So two separate chains of commands with the military leadership serving under the civilian leadership.

[devinpatterson]

Oh, I believe I'v mentioned this before (but it bears repeating since it came up in this thread or the base thread), I have permission to use the run the lucky 38 mod from the author. However I'm with Devilman in re: to it being far to lavish. However parts and pieces of it may be bearable for upgrades and what have you.

[peadar1987]

Hi Devin, sorry for the delay, but here is the Eastern Promises .esp:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-qchMFaWt3HekVQdWF4S285STA/view?usp=sharing

 

There are a fair few locations east of the Colorado there, feel free to use any of them. North of the area is legion territory, to the south are a few tribal camps. Let me know what you think.

[devinpatterson]

Hi Devin, sorry for the delay, but here is the Eastern Promises .esp:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-qchMFaWt3HekVQdWF4S285STA/view?usp=sharing

 

There are a fair few locations east of the Colorado there, feel free to use any of them. North of the area is legion territory, to the south are a few tribal camps. Let me know what you think.

Thanks brother, looking forward to checking it out. I while back I experimented with FNV and cloning the HH world space. I actually had a bit of success. HH is really a great base for Sedona. Add in some extra foilage and it's a decent match. The more legion territory we get, the more realistic and substantial teh NCR/Legion war (weather ind or ncr ending) becomes.