An independent New Vegas mod.

[TheBlueKidd]

Here's some discussion of the possibilities of the Mr. House ending on the r/falloutlore subreddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/2vyg3u/in_the_case_of_mr_house_winning_at_the_second/). People made some very interesting points. I'm not sure how far into development you are, but suggestions can't hurt.

Edited February 16, 2015 by TheBlueKidd

[devinpatterson]

Here's some discussion of the possibilities of the Mr. House ending on the r/falloutlore subreddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/2vyg3u/in_the_case_of_mr_house_winning_at_the_second/). People made some very interesting points. I'm not sure how far into development you are, but suggestions can't hurt.

 

Thanks I'll re-post that in the House thread. The House ending doesn't get a lot of love, so I appreciate suggestions and ideas in that regard.

[devinpatterson]

I'd also like to explore a side project that is related to the Viva NV independent mod....a alternative choice featuring the BOS.

#1 I'd like to expand a bit on the Mojave BOS both graphically and in re: to lore. For example, some new models from mixing BOS robes and power armor to create something akin to a knight's tunic (Something to spice up not just the power armor but also recon armor) and perhaps some new ranks instead of just paladin, knight etc.

#2 I'd like to explore the possibility of and independent ending by the courier and his/her new knighthood (or at least induction) of the BOS resulting in uplifting the Mojave chapter from a minor to a major faction. Essentially giving the option of acquiring the crown jewel of the Mojave, for the brotherhood with the courier as their standard bearer/champion (so to speak). While the developers have emphasized the west coast BOS's dwindling significance, I believe under McNamara, that the Mojave chapter is a different beast from the remnants of their brethren in the core region. And few factions are as well suited, technologically speaking, as the BOS for utilizing Robco technologies and other assets.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Can I just quickly interject that I'd love to see a set of T-51b armour with a tabard? It'd really reinforce the idea of the Brotherhood as a pseudo-Medieval crusading order. Maybe there's an elite unit who wear T-51b armour with tabards and bear swords instead of energy weapons? Just a suggestion.

 

And moreover, I'd be completely, 100% on board with the idea of a Brotherhood-heavy ending. They're invariably my favourite faction in NV, and if you want ideas as to how to create a Brotherhood-centric Independent ending, I'd be happy to provide you with them!

[devinpatterson]

Can I just quickly interject that I'd love to see a set of T-51b armour with a tabard? It'd really reinforce the idea of the Brotherhood as a pseudo-Medieval crusading order. Maybe there's an elite unit who wear T-51b armour with tabards and bear swords instead of energy weapons? Just a suggestion.

Yeah I think it would give them more character. Re: weapons I think something akin to oversized rippers wouldn't be too hard to make.

 

And moreover, I'd be completely, 100% on board with the idea of a Brotherhood-heavy ending. They're invariably my favourite faction in NV, and if you want ideas as to how to create a Brotherhood-centric Independent ending, I'd be happy to provide you with them!

I'd appreciate it. I think it's do-able from the independent ending assuming teh player wants to travel that route (proceed within the structure of the order), and opens up a lot of unique variations on how the brotherhood views (and by extension your views) other factions and primary goals.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Alright, I've got some free time now. Let me get some quick thoughts down:

 

1. The Fort: I think that among the Brotherhood's first actions would be to seize the Fort, both because of its utility and because of how extraordinarily dangerous it could be in the hands of any other faction. As time went on, I think they'd try to boot it up and mass-produce the Securitrons, which they'd repaint in Brotherhood colours and use as support for their Paladins. (In which case, can we get a Brotherhood retexture for the Securitrons up in here? I imagine them having a new face, too - maybe something akin to a knight's helmet).

 

2. The Strip: I've got mixed feelings here. The Brotherhood would likely secure it for their own ends, but I'm kinda unsure as to what would happen next - while militaristic, I don't think they'd see fit to completely shut it down. I frankly suspect they'd leave the Courier to run it. Oh, and they'd completely loot the Lucky 38 of anything technological.

 

3. The Dam: The Brotherhood would definitely immediately re-occupy the Dam, and probably park a significant military force there to boot. With their technology, I suspect they'd have it up-and-running pretty quickly. They'd also probably get some of the other gear there running, too.

 

4. HELIOS One: They lost it once, they're not doing it again. I suspect that they'd return their base of operations to here, and probably heavily-fortify it this time - I kinda have this image of them turning HELIOS into their 'castle' of sorts, which I can expand more on later. I think it would be up to the player whether to hand over Euclid's C-Finder to them; however, if the player reveals that they have it, they'd either need to hand it over or the Brotherhood would open fire.

 

5. Nellis AFB: This is where things get interesting. They're not too positively-inclined towards the Boomers, I should think, since they lost two Paladins to artillery fire; I think it'd be up to the player to smooth things over, or else pick a side. If the player sided with the Brotherhood, they'd probably be asked to sneak into Nellis, then sabotage the Boomer's guns, after which the Brotherhood would launch a raid on the base. After the raid, heavy artillery would likely appear at other Brotherhood positions around the place.

 

6. Brotherhood - Internal Culture: I think that the Brotherhood's culture would, out of necessity, evolve under the Courier's influence - becoming more accepting of the outside world, at the very least. I think that with a high enough Speech or Science skill, the Courier could influence them into giving away technology to help with agriculture, robotics, etc. Maybe, with a 100 Speech/Science skill, the Courier could even convince them to start taking in external volunteers, significantly increasing the number of Brotherhood personnel in the Mojave? It's clear that McNamara's thinking is already going that way, as of the end of the game.

 

There's more, but I can't really think of anything right now.

 

Actually, there is one thing. If you're looking for some neat melee weapons for our elite unit, check out Bingle's Melee Collection. It's an awesome mod, and there's permission to use it however we want, which would be handy for our melee squad.

 

I've got something of an idea for them. You see, it's mentioned in passing that when the lockdown of the Hidden Valley bunker was initiated, nobody was allowed out - or in. Meaning that whoever was locked out, stayed that way. I always thought it was a great plot point that was never actually expanded upon.

 

Therefore, I'm considering making our unit the 'Knights of HELIOS'. A group of Brotherhood warriors who didn't make it to Hidden Valley in time, and instead, retreated to an outside location. Without the gear to fully maintain their equipment, they mounted tabards over their armour to help keep out the Mojave sands, and took up advanced but semi-improvised melee weapons of all sorts in place of their energy weapons (since they'd've been running low on ammunition anyway). Ever since, they've been on the run from the NCR - until the NCR suddenly retreated from the region following the Battle of Hoover Dam, and they headed home, to find that the lockdown had finally ended.

 

Thoughts?

[Degby1]

Alright, I've got some free time now. Let me get some quick thoughts down:

 

1. The Fort: I think that among the Brotherhood's first actions would be to seize the Fort, both because of its utility and because of how extraordinarily dangerous it could be in the hands of any other faction. As time went on, I think they'd try to boot it up and mass-produce the Securitrons, which they'd repaint in Brotherhood colours and use as support for their Paladins. (In which case, can we get a Brotherhood retexture for the Securitrons up in here? I imagine them having a new face, too - maybe something akin to a knight's helmet).

 

2. The Strip: I've got mixed feelings here. The Brotherhood would likely secure it for their own ends, but I'm kinda unsure as to what would happen next - while militaristic, I don't think they'd see fit to completely shut it down. I frankly suspect they'd leave the Courier to run it. Oh, and they'd completely loot the Lucky 38 of anything technological.

 

3. The Dam: The Brotherhood would definitely immediately re-occupy the Dam, and probably park a significant military force there to boot. With their technology, I suspect they'd have it up-and-running pretty quickly. They'd also probably get some of the other gear there running, too.

 

4. HELIOS One: They lost it once, they're not doing it again. I suspect that they'd return their base of operations to here, and probably heavily-fortify it this time - I kinda have this image of them turning HELIOS into their 'castle' of sorts, which I can expand more on later. I think it would be up to the player whether to hand over Euclid's C-Finder to them; however, if the player reveals that they have it, they'd either need to hand it over or the Brotherhood would open fire.

 

5. Nellis AFB: This is where things get interesting. They're not too positively-inclined towards the Boomers, I should think, since they lost two Paladins to artillery fire; I think it'd be up to the player to smooth things over, or else pick a side. If the player sided with the Brotherhood, they'd probably be asked to sneak into Nellis, then sabotage the Boomer's guns, after which the Brotherhood would launch a raid on the base. After the raid, heavy artillery would likely appear at other Brotherhood positions around the place.

 

6. Brotherhood - Internal Culture: I think that the Brotherhood's culture would, out of necessity, evolve under the Courier's influence - becoming more accepting of the outside world, at the very least. I think that with a high enough Speech or Science skill, the Courier could influence them into giving away technology to help with agriculture, robotics, etc. Maybe, with a 100 Speech/Science skill, the Courier could even convince them to start taking in external volunteers, significantly increasing the number of Brotherhood personnel in the Mojave? It's clear that McNamara's thinking is already going that way, as of the end of the game.

 

There's more, but I can't really think of anything right now.

 

Actually, there is one thing. If you're looking for some neat melee weapons for our elite unit, check out Bingle's Melee Collection. It's an awesome mod, and there's permission to use it however we want, which would be handy for our melee squad.

 

I've got something of an idea for them. You see, it's mentioned in passing that when the lockdown of the Hidden Valley bunker was initiated, nobody was allowed out - or in. Meaning that whoever was locked out, stayed that way. I always thought it was a great plot point that was never actually expanded upon.

 

Therefore, I'm considering making our unit the 'Knights of HELIOS'. A group of Brotherhood warriors who didn't make it to Hidden Valley in time, and instead, retreated to an outside location. Without the gear to fully maintain their equipment, they mounted tabards over their armour to help keep out the Mojave sands, and took up advanced but semi-improvised melee weapons of all sorts in place of their energy weapons (since they'd've been running low on ammunition anyway). Ever since, they've been on the run from the NCR - until the NCR suddenly retreated from the region following the Battle of Hoover Dam, and they headed home, to find that the lockdown had finally ended.

 

Thoughts?

Some good stuff here, I always wanted the BoS to be more influential.

 

I'm not 100% your Fort idea, especially in a House ending, plus Yes Man hates the BoS so some smoothing over and negotiation would be required here. Unless of course you want to take the Fort by force, which would lead to a falling out between the Courier and House/Yes Man so I could only see this happening through diplomacy if you want to preserve your place with those two. But it does make sense that the BoS would want access to it.

 

The Strip would be there for them to blow off steam. As they begin to gradually interact with the outside world they could make good use of the Strip. I doubt they would attack it, if your running the Lucky 38 then they could set up shop in the casino's hidden rooms and floors. Obvously this would only work in an Independent Ending only, I mention House endings as I think this mod has been pushed as being compatable a House ending.

I think the Ultra Luxe would be a good base also, especially after you have massacred the White Glove Society, it could serve as an embassy of sorts with profits going to the BoS expanding their range of influence.

 

The Dam, I think McNamara had no interest in the Dam. If your running it with your own private Securitron Army then they have no need being there. Unless you blew the Securiton Fort up, then having the BoS guard it and make repairs would make more sense. If Hardin is in charge however, then perhaps they would want to occupy it, if only just to piss the NCR off.

 

I'm 100% with you on HELIOS. Not only would they fortify that place they would make better use of it than the Legion or NCR ever would. I don't think they would kill you over not handing over Euclid's C Finder, McNamara had the chance to take it off you during Veronicas quest. Plus your also a BoS Paladin at the time, responsible for the lockdown being lifted so if anything they'll be thankfull.

 

A Boomers-BoS alliance is actually something i'm doing in my mod that I'm working on. It also involves HELIOS One being used as a 'gift' to help gain an alliance with the BoS. It's always been an idea that I've wanted to explore, and an alliance between the 2 could reap massive benefits for both. They are both xenophobic but it seems there is still some hope for them as seen in the vanilla game. The only thing stopping an attack is manpower. If all of these ideas on here are greenlighted then the BoS are going to be spread too thin to take on and hold every major location in the wasteland. Unless they get reinforcements from Lyons (which is most likely) or from Lost Hills, they won't have enough of a force to pull this off. So an alliance would definitely be the most logical idea here.

 

The Brotherhood Internal Culture is something I would play this mod alone for. There is a mod called "Silverpeak Bunker" which allows you to create a splinter faction in the BoS with McNamaras permission. It wasnt finished and the implementation was a bit off but it did allow to set up an outpost in Freeside and guard the Followers of the Apocalypse at the Mormon Fort. You could also send the same recon team to HELIOS to salvage tech but this option never did anything except send them there. You could also reactivate New Vegas Steel and start producing weapons or help Freeside out with new materials. But this option only affected your reputation, you never actually gained any new weapons or saw improvements in Freeside.

 

I think Big MT and Hopeville Military Base should also be high on the BoS agenda with the amount of tech and weaponry still knocking about alone. This could also provide an angle to getting on the good side of the Boomers, as they would appreciate the artillery they could get their hands on.

 

The BoS Knights idea is a good dynamic, I always did wonder what happened to the patrols who got locked out. They most likely did band together and set up a makeshift base somewhere else.

[sgtKraigO]

Cool idea but my question is, who is going to man these areas? They're down to around 100-150(?) members, are you going to have 16-25 guys at each key location backed up by robot security? This seems to small to me, especially at a place like the Dam and Nelis. Also keep in mind they lost Helios One with a larger host, how are they going to keep it again with a fraction of the force?

[devinpatterson]

First, it's important I clarify what I had in mind when I first proposed this idea regarding the brotherhood. I didn't really provide enough detail or a clear enough concept. As a result we have two people replying to teh same post, but seeing two different questions (and consequently two different answers).

 

I'm not pitching this new BOS mod as a natural consequence of the independent ending in any way, shape or form. Rather this is more of an alternative plot, where the courier takes up the role of championing the BOS's cause as a active member of the faction. I probably should have been clearer in that regard, as it's an important distinction for the concept to work well.

 

You can have a independent ending where the courier is neutral or even a provisional ally toward the BOS if certain conditions are met (eyesight to teh blind completed etc). The independent courier can raise them up to a limited degree and support them, as s/he would with any ally, but the BOS isn't the couriers's primary focus in any of the independent endings. In general they'r still a minor faction, with limited impact on the game world. That's what we have posted previously (in this thread) and is more or less the maximum scope of the BOS, as far as we've brainstormed.

 

What I'm proposing is a bit different. I'm suggesting a courier that is the champion of the BOS, whose fate and identity becomes interwoven with the faction. This courier's primary focus is returning the BOS to it's full glory and has "bought into" the organization (even if s/he intends to change or temper it to some degree later) as something worthy of devotion. We need to provide a believable motivation that convincingly allows us to lay out a shared destiny between the courier and the brotherhood. The courier must value the brotherhood's people, ideology, technology, cause or some other redeeming feature of the faction to share such power willingly and subjugate him\herself to some degree (at least theoretically) under teh Elder's leadership.

 

As a side note;

It might also be possible to have the courier as something more of a Knight Errant (Roving Knight) that is more independent.....but that's a hard sale, since teh BOS has a very hierarchical structure. The defining distinction of that pitch would be that the courier would still be a member of the BOS however not directly under the Elder's (or anyone else's) command.

 

It's probably outside of the lore/canon verzion of our courier, but as a player, the courier is the one thing we get to really sculpt and customize in the game world.....to reflect our own unique vision. To some degree this mirrors the NCR & Legion endings, where the accomplishments of the courier are shared fully by the faction the courier champions.....except in this case it's the BOS.

 

In this faction ending, the practical effect on NV and the surrounding area is substantial, and as far reaching as the any other of the large/main faction endings (NCR, House or Legion). The BOS will occupy high value facilities/locations and become the primary faction in the area. It will be a very different New Vegas from any of the other Independent endings.

 

we have MarchUntoTorment commenting in light of my idea, but I think Narmz is seeing my comments it in light of an independent ending (my fault for not better detailing what I had in mind). So even though the path to this BOS ending is *through* the independent ending, the end results are so different that I think it needs it's own thread, (just like the House & NCR have their own threads). It will help prevent confusion and allow us to focus our ideas more accurately. I will bump MarchUntoTorment's comments over there to start with.

 

We *can* still share the *other* assets from this proposed mod with many of the other endings. For instance new models, ranks and lore, that we develop for teh BOS ending, can be used with most (assuming the BOS is still in existence) of the faction & independent endings.

[devinpatterson]

Cool idea but my question is, who is going to man these areas? They're down to around 100-150(?) members, are you going to have 16-25 guys at each key location backed up by robot security? This seems to small to me, especially at a place like the Dam and Nelis. Also keep in mind they lost Helios One with a larger host, how are they going to keep it again with a fraction of the force?

It flows from the independent ending. Most, although not all, of the ind players will have the securitron army. They are the primary defense force of the new BOS. But paladins and knights will supplement, support and direct the bots.