An independent New Vegas mod.

[devinpatterson]

Please allow me to unveil some of my imagination before i even saw this topic. There are some "commander" mods such as enclave commander and even legion commander. I believe that kind of mods can be utilized to summon Securitrons, Robo Scorpions (assuming the courier cleared the Old World Blues) and recruited soldiers.

 

Working with the authors or getting permission to use the commander mods for the securitrons is certainly a possibility.

 

We have a few ways we can do securitrons as troops/quasi followers;

1. This option reflects the same setup as the vanilla game (in the short time that the Securitrons appear in teh endgame/battle) once Yesman is installed & House is out of the picture. Securitrons are controlled via the mainframe (currently Yesman). You tell Yesman what to do and he takes care of the rest. A good example of this gameplay mechanic is the very end of the game when the rangers and Oliver burst through the Legion fort. Yesman has arranged for a securitron force to assemble right outside the gate. The player didn't directly order the securitrons, rather it's a chain of command flowing through Yesman.

 

This would be expanded though, because I'd also include some faction goodness (whether that's adding the securitrons to the player faction or the player to the lucky38faction) at the very least and probably a few extra dialog options. But mostly I just want to add new animations (like a salute) and barks (VIP on deck, calling the room to attention as per military etiquette etc) to emphasize the couiers new found status.

 

But there are options we *could* include;

 

We could also add a set teammate function via dialog with any securitron, if we wanted the courier to be able to directly control individual securitrons. It will result in a companion wheel being available to teh player immediately. The downside is it will muck with the bots normal behavior/ai packages. So it might be good idea to set a timer so that if they are left isolated from the player for a period of time, they evp back to their standard activities.

 

You could request a squad of securitrons through Yesman as companions, but it seems like that wouldn't be much fun to me (the extra firepower would fubar the game). Something like this would be an excellent example of where we could use the commander codes. If we have a chapter 4 or 5 where the Courier goes to war and is actively controlling a small squad of bots it would be pretty handy.

 

Let me know what you guys think. I'd like to reinforce the impression of the ruling power of NV, but not suck all the challenge from the game.

 

 

Robo Scorpions (assuming the courier cleared the Old World Blues)

 

I believe Robo Scorps will definitely have to wait. They would depend so heavily on Mobius, the radar fence (?) etc. If it was even possible to bring them from OWB, I think you'd have a major quest at a bare minimum.....and honestly game balance would suffer.

 

 

and recruited soldiers. For recruited soldiers, it would be best for the courier to choose "classes" (equipments, tag skills, perks, SPECIAL) for each type of soldiers.

 

That's probably a little bit too "granular" (read work intensive).

 

 

Events would be necessary to recruit soldiers from factions (Powder gangers, Vipers, NCR Remnants, Jackals, Omertas, ETC) and some npcs (Craig Boone, Enclave Remnants) can be recruited as a trainer (In case of recruiting craig boone {which according to the independent new vegas ending, makes his living as a bodyguard or Hired Killer} Sniper Soldiers are trainable and raises general gun skills of all the soldiers.}

 

While I'd like for some towns/areas to have their own militia (and some quests could be arranged in that direction) I'm not really looking to add forces to the couriers army. S/he has a substantial military presence in the Mojave and really doesn't need additional firepower. I'd still like to try to keep game balance in mind while we're modding.

 

 

Another aspect I'm curious about is in re: to Yesman's evolution. How do you guys feel about the couriers attitude (karma) and actions shaping Yesman? Even after Yesman's upgrade, his actual personality is still very.....unformed. He's no longer the equivalent of a corporate yesman (his namesake), but there probably has to be something to influence his new found "assertiveness".

Edited May 20, 2013 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

Perhaps after this, we could make something like this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1ef9la/idea_for_a_non_main_fallout_game_a_side_one_like/

 

Well I think war could always be a possibility in teh later chapters/parts of the mod, and certainly with the legion. But on a much shorter time frame than the 25 years stated in teh link. In fact it might be the case that the best time to strike the legion is just after Ceaser has died and his men are squabling for control (ie a civil war of sorts to pick Caesers heir). It would be a long haul though. My impression is that the legion is one of two super powers (NCR) on the west coast. If they are on par in size with the NCR, you are looking at a empire of enormous size (post apologetically speaking), so a ginormous game world would be in order.

[devinpatterson]

Since we're on the subject of the Legion I would think that negotiating with the Legion would be impossible if the player has already killed Caesar and Lanius.

 

Yep hard to imagine a more grievous act to the legion, plus it's difficult to know who to negotiate a truce with, until some leader emerges from the initial uncertainty.

 

The courier may be able to influence the legions history in many ways. Invading legion territories immediately after Caesar's death, may galvanize the legion (common enemy). Supporting a particular "candidate" may influence future legion policy (support less or more bloodthirsty leader), or just be used to prop up weak contenders that increase the severity and duration of a civil war, thereby bleeding the legion. Possibly trying to aid rebellion of the member tribes, or giving them military support etc.

 

Since we're on the subject of the Legion I would think that negotiating with the Legion would be impossible if the player has already killed Caesar and Lanius. It would be difficult to avoid a negative reputation with the Legion during the battle at Hoover Dam but if Caesar and Lanius survive then I'm sure the Legion faction can be reset to neutral afterwards.

 

Sure I'm on the same page, but resetting the legion to neutral should be a massive task/quest or debt to pay to the legion. Or possibly threat/alliance. I think the fundamental nature of the legion (and Caeser in particular, ie Graham) means sleights are not casually forgiven. It seems to be a fundamental building block of legion philosophy. I guess in other words a really big carrot or a really big stick.

 

There is also a significant difference in re: to leadership. If it's anything like Rome, politics are essentially machiavellian in nature in re: to the Legion. The NCR on the other hand has to at least appear to hold higher morals and ideals. I mean I'm sure if Kimball (or some of the NCR senators) could put a bullet in teh couriers head covertly, he wouldn't hesitate a second. But he/they (pres & senate) can't swarm in and take whatever they wish while still upholding the appearance of a true republic. The Legion has no such restrictions.

 

I believe we should probably go with the legion being negatively disposed toward the Courier for most of or all of the duration of the mod. What do you guys think?

 

Regarding the negotiations with the NCR I had a look on the wiki and came across the order of withdrawal letter http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Order_of_withdrawal used in the Mr House ending. I thought that the Courier could present a similar letter to whoever is running the NCR/Vegas embassy if the player wants to remove the NCR out the Mojave.

 

Good deal :thumbsup: Between the order of withdrawal & the NV treaty we have two of our NCR related quest branches for Yesman to lay out. It (letter of withdrawal) is also illustrative of House's belief that the Legion was not a force that he could negotiate with in the same way as the NCR. Whether that's only because of financial reasons (paying for electric/h20, civilian NCR gamblers etc) or larger more basic underpinnings of the Legions bare aggression, I think it's a good direction to go with our mod for all ending except servitude to Caeser.

Edited May 20, 2013 by devinpatterson

[TheAtmosphere]

If the player wins for the NCR, they should have a meeting with the President, and perhaps have an opportunity to become "Governor" of New Vegas, which the storyline would have the same premise, but with different quests, dialog, weapons etc.

 

Although that would mean at least a month extra work.

[Devilman1975]

Another aspect I'm curious about is in re: to Yesman's evolution. How do you guys feel about the couriers attitude (karma) and actions shaping Yesman? Even after Yesman's upgrade, his actual personality is still very.....unformed. He's no longer the equivalent of a corporate yesman (his namesake), but there probably has to be something to influence his new found "assertiveness".

 

This idea sounds good to me as well as the option to recruit securitrons as companions. You're right about the need to balance things a bit. I'm currently using the Securitron Mk 3 companion mod and as fun as it is to watch him $#** the Legion with a rocket barrage I tend to feel like a third wheel during combat.

 

The courier may be able to influence the legions history in many ways. Possibly trying to aid rebellion of the member tribes, or giving them military support etc.

 

I like the idea of some elements of the Legion trying to bring about the restoration of their old tribes especially after the deaths of Caesar and Lanius. I'm sure that there are members similar to Ulysses who harbor some resentment for the destruction of their former tribes. If Ulysses survives Lonesome Road I'm sure he would participate in this scenario or at least provide the player with the names of potential allies in the Legion.

 

 

I believe we should probably go with the legion being negatively disposed toward the Courier for most of or all of the duration of the mod. What do you guys think?

 

Asides from Ulysses and Joshua Graham I have no love for the Legion either so I'm more than happy with this scenario.

 

On another note I was thinking about the Followers of the Apocalypse. I'm sure that they will have a major role to play in helping the Courier change Vegas for the better. When I spoke to Julie Farkas before the battle at Hoover Dam she isn't happy with the fact that the Strip is locked out to the rest of Vegas. Surely she doesn't expect the player to start letting the Freeside hobos into the strip. A small reduction in the admission fee to the strip would be as far I am willing to go.

 

The ending for the Followers shows them being overburdened in an independent Vegas. I can imagine the player would have to throw in a lot of money for them to continue their work. One possible quest idea I've got is that Julie had to request some more people from the Follower's headquarters in Boneyard. The extra help could have made it as far as Nipton, got captured by a group of Jackals or Vipers to be sold as slaves and it is up to the player to rescue them.

[TheAtmosphere]

Perhaps you could incorporate Freeside into the strip, like it would be in real life, for example, re-do the roads so they all look good, remove all the trash, plant some trees, rennovate the broken buildings, (This will obviously cost a lot of caps, but you will earn money for lending protection to companies, taxes, and the strip.)

 

It would be cool to have The King, Julias Farkes and yourself have a meeting about extending the strip, the Followers camp could be extended and renamed "New Vegas Medical Hospital" or something, and you would have to have high charisma/speech/barter in order to convince the king, convince him it's for the best, and bam, The Kings Hotel And Casino now open!

[devinpatterson]

Just sneaking a quick post at work, but the focus on vaults reminded me of a question I'v always had. It seems like info on the vault locations would be pure gold. I mean that would mimic sotries like deathlands, or games like Rage where the actual info (locations) of pre-war installations like a vault were more valuable than any material objects.

[darkus37]

Cesar's Legion

 

A lot of the possible outcomes are determined whether or not Cesar is dead, mostly because he build the legion to be a cult of personality around him (heck, it's called Cesar's Legion). That said, here's what I imagine would happen after the Second Battle:

 

With Cesar dead/disabled, Lanius takes over - but while a seemingly able commander; he also appears to rule by fear, even having a myth proclaiming him to be a bloodthirsty monster circulated through the Legion. If Cesar had died from natural causes, Lanius might have ultimately kept the Legion under his control, but being killed or forced to retreat will severely damage morale and break down the order that holds the Legion together. I would imagine that the Empire will begin to rip itself apart at the seams, possibly reverting to former tribal identities as the various factions fight amongst themselves -each attempting to carve up their own slice of the Empire. Eventually, the infighting will allow an external force, NCR or other, to destroy the Legion entirely - ending just like the Roman Empire that Cesar based his Legion off of. None of which would endear the Courier to anyone in the Legion except those wishing to join the winning side.

 

NCR

 

A lot was riding on control of the Hoover Dam, with President Kimball basically staking his political career on it. I would imagine that with the NCR defeat, he would be impeached/voted out pretty quickly given his lack of overall popularity and the major loss of troops, territory, technology, and treasure. Giving such a powerful country a black eye will no doubt produce a large amount of fear and hysteria, great tools to rile the populace - even those who didn't want the NCR to be in the Mojave would feel the need for revenge against a common threat: the Courier. There would probably be a major military response soon after the events of the Second Battle were made known, but considering how thin the NCR was already stretched, it would probably be stopped by the securitrons. With the NCR left to catch it's breath, and the Courier showing his mettle, things would calm down for the time being - but another conflict would be just a heartbeat away as envious eyes stare hungrily at the Mojave.

 

Yes Man

 

The character should probably be shaped by decisions taken in certain side quests, preferably those dealing or starting with New Vegas and the surrounding area (for example: freeside/westside) – in this way Yes Man's personality would shift based off of the Courier's decisions. For example: "Hard Luck Blues" involves Vault 34 and its out of control reactor; siding with the sharecroppers will shift Yes Man to worry about the many over the few. These shifts would not impact the overall quest line dramatically, but it would be nice to have some random encounters based off of the shaped personality: for example, let's say there is a fight between two groups of people near the Tops: if "G.I. Blues" was solved with a truce between the Kings and the NCR, then the securitron attempts to calm both sides down and try to get an agreement without violence; alternately, if the player is more friendly with one side, the securitron will choose that group to support; etc.

 

Vaults

 

The thing about the vaults is that for the most part, they are exactly what they sound like – secure shelters. The main draw was a safe place to sleep and maybe some old world weaponry. There were exceptions of course: for example, Vault 22 was a humongous lab experimenting with resilient plant life - something very useful in the wasteland; but that was more of an exception rather than the rule. Most vaults had some defect or handicap as part of a societal experiment and thus pretty useless as anything other than their intended purpose. The difference with Rage vaults was that their value was in the advanced tech and people stored within – people who were especially valuable due to their enhancements; the people within most vaults are not very exceptional and might even be slightly inbred. The vaults in the Mojave have mostly a strategic value (and maybe some high-powered loot), but are otherwise not very exceptional. The draw to the vaults in general is more about the stories they contain - of the ways that Vault-Tec failed at protecting those housed within and having the inhabitants either fail due to, or succeed despite, the handicaps placed upon them. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

[devinpatterson]

Cesar's Legion

 

A lot of the possible outcomes are determined whether or not Cesar is dead, mostly because he build the legion to be a cult of personality around him (heck, it's called Cesar's Legion). That said, here's what I imagine would happen after the Second Battle:

 

There are many different long term possibilities for the Legion as exemplified by TheAtmosphere's reddit submission, my ramblings, Devilman1975's & your thoughts on the subject. But the key point is that they make a great villain. Quite simply they are perfect for this setting and our quest lines. Their military might, political/ethical philosophy (diametrically opposed to the idea of both a independent NV and a NCR Republic), ruthlessness & cruelty make them indispensable for our mod. So it's important to keep them vital and alive as the antagonist. Perhaps in another mod, a much more extended story of the Legion and it's fate can expanded on later down teh road. But that doesn't mean we can't have rumors, tales etc of the empires woes or infighting etc. But I want the Legion to continue to be a imposing villain, and deadly threat to NV. Van buren might be a rich source of info on the legion and have details not contained in NV.

 

NCR

 

A lot was riding on control of the Hoover Dam, with President Kimball basically staking his political career on it. I would imagine that with the NCR defeat, he would be impeached/voted out pretty quickly given his lack of overall popularity and the major loss of troops, territory, technology, and treasure.

 

 

 

I think it would primarily depend on one of three of the Couriers actions;

1. If s/he decides to renew the NV treaty I would imagine Kimball will keep his presidency (and the NCR would be mad not to accept it) in the long run, with some serious political damage control initially keeping him busy for a while.

2. If the courier institutes a letter of withdrawal (the equivalent of the one House would have, that Devilman found) his fate becomes more murky. Perhaps a period of time as he faces votes of no confidence, political battles etc that tie up the NCR for the immediate future as Kimball fights for his position as head of state. Leaving Kimball in a state of limbo as to his final fate. This would be demonstrated by fierce partisan bickering of NCR citizens on the strip.

3. A defeat and destruction of remaining NCR forces (which would probably be our 3rd option in re: to the NCR) would probably make a unpopular war/expansion the final albatross that sinks Kimball, rallies the NCR pop etc

 

 

 

There would probably be a major military response soon after the events of the Second Battle were made known, but considering how thin the NCR was already stretched, it would probably be stopped by the securitrons.

 

I don't really see that with teh first two responses. Not only is NV, the dam etc very defensible, but there would be important resources the NCR would risk loosing (as House made clear in his letter of withdrawal). But assume a military response in regard to the 3rd option of the couriers, a NCR slaughter.

 

 

 

Yes Man

 

For example: "Hard Luck Blues" involves Vault 34 and its out of control reactor; siding with the sharecroppers will shift Yes Man to worry about the many over the few. These shifts would not impact the overall quest line dramatically, but it would be nice to have some random encounters based off of the shaped personality:

 

The early quests wouldn't be used for determining Yesman's behavior for a couple of reasons. First they can be completed before the courier ever meets Yesman and second because Yesman hasn't instituted his new programming as of yet. The changes in his personality come after the code that allow him to be "more assertive"

 

 

 

for example, let's say there is a fight between two groups of people near the Tops: if "G.I. Blues" was solved with a truce between the Kings and the NCR, then the securitron attempts to calm both sides down and try to get an agreement without violence; alternately, if the player is more friendly with one side, the securitron will choose that group to support; etc.

 

 

 

 

My proposal would be a bit more subtle. In essence Yesman makes a perfect liaison/intermediary between the player and the quests. He'll be a great story telling tool and will make our job much easier in that regard. So I'd like his personality to emerge slowly via dialog, but not really have him be making decisions per say, in the couriers stead.

 

I do think that if we ever have an end slideshow to our mod, it would be cool to have Yesman become a full fledged independent NV or NCR citizen of renown (maybe even Mayor/Gov of NV or Senator of NV via the NCR) under the shadow of the couriers tutelage.....since I think we all believe the Courier will be moving on from NV at some point (NV being simply one chapter in the Couriers much larger life story).

 

 

Vaults

The thing about the vaults is that for the most part, they are exactly what they sound like – secure shelters......Rage vaults was that their value was in the advanced tech and people stored within – people who were especially valuable due to their enhancements; the people within most vaults are not very exceptional and might even be slightly inbred.

 

Yeah the vault's really exemplify Fallout's dark humor in re: to their true purposes (experiments & citizens as gov property for re/colonization). Not only are they an iconic part of fallout, but their back story is one of my favorite parts of FO. But I think it would be inaccurate to label vault dwellers simply as not very exceptional or slightly inbred. They have benefit of advanced pre war schooling, tech, science & knowledge etc that makes them very rare in teh post apocalyptic wasteland. Not to mention they are probably one of the few pure genetic gene pools left in a irradiated and blasted world.

 

The vaults in the Mojave have mostly a strategic value (and maybe some high-powered loot), but are otherwise not very exceptional.

 

 

It's hard to imagine any post war structure ever matching their protective value when you throw in the billions of $ spent, the pre-war technology and what they were designed to withstand.

 

The draw to the vaults in general is more about the stories they contain - of the ways that Vault-Tec failed at protecting those housed within and having the inhabitants either fail due to, or succeed despite, the handicaps placed upon them. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.

 

I don't think your wrong, I think that's a very valid point as well.

[devinpatterson]

If the player wins for the NCR, they should have a meeting with the President, and perhaps have an opportunity to become "Governor" of New Vegas, which the storyline would have the same premise, but with different quests, dialog, weapons etc.

 

Although that would mean at least a month extra work.

 

Yes I believe that's something we can pull off. By keeping everything modular we can keep the ncr on the strip, dam, airport etc just be which scripts we fire off. But as you allude to, the story line will change. Still we can probably recycle the quest for Houses vengeance, legion aggression missions & faction trouble (on the home front among NV), maybe others. So there should be a fair amount of overlap. A NCR ending (Eureka!) can probably be a close(ish) match to a (NCR friendly) independent NV.