An independent New Vegas mod.

[devinpatterson]

Regarding the option to declare war on the NCR, I think that it would be considered a bone headed move on the player's part.

Oh yeah, it would be going full retard. As you mention, it would deprive the player of military support, income etc. Not to mention essentially open up two fronts, legion (down by cottonwood/Colorado river) & NCR from the west, which is typically a strategic suicide. It's only there to give a full choice to teh player for the independent mod, I'd hope it would rarely be chosen except for player that just really hate hte NCR for some odd reason.

 

I doubt that declaring war against the NCR would have any place in the House version of the mod as it would go against his grand plans for Vegas. The only group that would benefit from a conflict with the NCR is Caesar's Legion.

No definitely not for the House mod, that'd be throwing away his meal ticket. He can score heavy on civilians in the casinos, but selling power and water is pretty damn lucrative too, and a lot of those civilians in the casino's come from NCR states.

 

If the player chooses to go to war with the NCR then there should be significant consequences such as the Strip being empty of tourists and no income for....will certainly see a trade embargo against New....I can even imagine the Vegas families accusing the player of damaging the economy of New Vegas with a pointless war and would certainly plot to have the player removed.

Yeah I think all of those (and probably more) would be in play if the player was foolish enough to start a war with one of the of the super powers of the western region. The only reason I include it is simply because the independent ver has far more lead way than the other two endings on what NV will become. I'm a fan of the NCR, but I wanted the player to feel like s/he has 360 degrees of freedom in deciding the big issues, so I tried to create a full spread; 1.treaty = potential allies, 2. letter of withdrawal = wary neutral with some bad blood 3. declare war = enemies. I feel like that covers a pretty wide spectrum without micro managing the dialog/quest and breaking it up into finer detail.

[LuciaofArroyo]

I think that one should probably be determined/fallout of the players choice. If s/he goes with the treaty, they (NCR) can spin this as a win, supporting the free trade zone of NV via the grand efforts and ideals of the republic etc. The withdrawel & war though, could probably result in the impeachment & resignation.

 

 

 

Even though it was just filler for the story and all... what about General Oliver staging come kind of a coup with a ragtag bunch of NCR renegades? It'd tie in nicely with plot for an NCR themed ending. Of course, he may recruit the player if the player has sided with NCR, and in the independent and house endings he's wanting to kill the player, so the outcomes would be different but the framework for the story would be pretty all-inclusive.

 

I'm just thinking that Hoover Dam is going to need a minor rebuild, and it would make sense to take advantage of it in all the possible endings.

 

I know it's more difficult when there are at least two (really 3) large scale changes to the Mojave, but I think it's very important for the player to have that choice, and it's such a game changer to the environment that I woudlnt' want to scrap it.

 

 

I can see what you're aiming for and it makes sense... honestly I'm not all that concerned with the story I laid out the other day, idk if you've read back through the chatter we were having about the business aspect of setting up trade outposts and farms- buying up land and staffing it based upon faction allegiances and selected Endings- but I think that's going to be perhaps the best way to give players the freedom to do stuff in the Mojave, quests and storys aside. If we say that we're aiming to include this in all possible endings then we've really got an incentive to get builders on board, because it'd be such an attraction in and of itself.

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/691109-an-independent-new-vegas-mod/page-49&do=findComment&comment=8480667

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/691109-an-independent-new-vegas-mod/page-49&do=findComment&comment=8486538

 

Hmm!

[devinpatterson]

Alright, alright - I get the point: this particular dead horse has been beaten enough - but I will leave it with this: having such vitally important areas remain in the hands of a possible enemy doesn't seem very smart to me; even having it under an ally's control would make me nervous.

I can understand where your coming from, but in essence, what would happen if the treaty continued in effect is no different than what has been happening for decades (? is it decades, since the first battle of hoover or when the NCR first started protecting the dam? I'm too lazy to check). The NCR could have taken House by force, but did not, and abide by the treaty they had agreed on. It's not likely they will be *more* inclined to take over now that a Securitron army is in their midst. This really is a win for the NCR (cheap water and power, bulwark against Caesar) and a win for NV (your alley is one of two super powers in the region) militarily speaking. It greatly reinforces NV's security, but at the expense of income that could have been gained from the NCR for utilities. On the other hand, a NCR friendly NV is likely to get a lot more tourists/gamblers from the Republic, so long term the finances may be fairly optimistic.

 

 

 

OK, so would the treaty re-signing have already taken place, or would it be a playable event, perhaps with dialog choices that have skill based requirements? For example: The Courier is speaking with the NCR Ambassador who want's things to remain the same as they were under House's rule. With a high enough speech, charisma, and/or luck skill - the player can have the NCR MP's removed or get a better deal with the Crimson Caravan for reconstruction materials (if Heartache by the Numbers was completed with the Caravan falling under NCR control).

Well Yesman is my liaison for all quests. He would lay out the 3 choices (much like he does in the vanilla games for your quests) and then you would go the ambassador. To deliver the msg in person with a escort of MK II's. But I havn't really focused on the details. I can see where some additional micro managing could be fun for the player, but I havn't really had time to think about it much. I'd kind of prefer to skip the micro management in general, but if you think it would be a strong draw/story element, we can give it a go.

 

 

Gotcha, makes sense. How will the mod determine if the Letter of Withdrawal was given? If it did happen, it would have been done right after the battle, right? The two week jump would make doing this a complication unless the mod starts right after the battle, allows you to make a decision, and then jumps to two weeks later.

Yes, I was thinking of following House's example of delevering it right at the end (I think that's one of the last things the player does for "the house always wins", but I'll have to double check.

 

In regard to the next quest line starting two weeks after, or right away, I can see it either way.

 

Two weeks will make players wait, which they may not like, but things are going on before then like changes on the strip, the riots, NCR re shuffle etc. They might even forget about VivaNV until the S hits the fan, and be surprised (which would be kidn of cool). I think it all depends on how much game time some players actually log as opposed to waiting/sleeping etc.

 

I could start right away, but I'd like to throw some minor stuff in first, so I'd still be a few days I'd imagine. I don't which do you prefer?

 

Well, I meant small pockets of holdouts - not a conflict for every square inch under NCR control. I don't think there should be more than 3-5 of these in total, deserters included.

Yeah a few (the 3-5 range) sounds good. Especially the share croppers.

 

Alright, Forlorn Hope was a bad example - maybe Camp Golf would be a better one: it had a squad that the Courier could train to be really great soldiers; and in combination with dealing with Hanlon so that he keeps his reputation intact - they may decide to switch sides. I'm sure a suitable location could be found for the deserters - embittered from losing friends fighting against the Legion and then being told that their sacrifice was for nothing... they may decide to desert - seems plausible to me.

Well various story elements can move the misfits over to McCarran if I remember right, so I don't think they'r wed to it. But the treaty allowed them (the NCR) to use camp Golf (it was apparently House's resort or some such, can't remember), it was never under their ownership to begin with. Just followed the same rules as the other locations the NCR were allowed to occupy, but not own.

 

 

OK have to go scrounge and then change the cable for the hood release (you'd think with a little ranger with less than 20k I wouldn't have to d*ck around with this little sh*t, but whatever), but I'll try to pick up here in about an hour.

[devinpatterson]

Even though it was just filler for the story and all... what about General Oliver staging come kind of a coup with a ragtag bunch of NCR renegades? It'd tie in nicely with plot for an NCR themed ending. Of course, he may recruit the player if the player has sided with NCR, and in the independent and house endings he's wanting to kill the player, so the outcomes would be different but the framework for the story would be pretty all-inclusive.

I think it's interesting, and creative, something I wouldn't have thought of. I know his power armor troops are the golden boys, that can do no wrong. I know as his favorites, they'r probably very loyal to him as well. I think I'm a little reluctant simply because I have trouble seeing him going full rogue, even after loosing Hoover. I mean he has everything to loose as the highest ranking military officer in the NCR army, he'd have to be 1. expecting a huge payoff from a desperate gamble (either a military coup of the NCR (which seems very far fetched to me) or NV, or 2. So blinded by rage, he's virtually irrational.

 

What I think might be a easier sale would be him defying orders but (in his head) for the good of the NCR. Like Patton defying orders from his superiors, based on his own intuition/skill. So less of a coup adn more of a mis-directed patriotism to the NCR (and settling a personal grudge).

 

I mean you probably know the NCR much better than I do, do you think it's likely he could bully or disband the Senate, president and take power while still keeping the various NCR states a cohesive republic?

 

I'm just thinking that Hoover Dam is going to need a minor rebuild, and it would make sense to take advantage of it in all the possible endings.

Ever since you mentioned that aspect of Hoover damn I'v been seeing all kinds of spots that are *perfect* for a little tent city type setup. There is one that is down teh outside section where a big platform on the wall lies. I'll try to get a screen shot of it. I picture a odd mix of a commissary and bazar of NCR merchants there. The upper dam would be receiving various caravans, and perhaps single traveling merchants. Then of course there would be people catering to the Hoover staff. Start expanding it to it rivals rivet city. I definitely think it's do-able in both the NCR and independent ending (if the player wishes), only House would 86 the idea.

 

I can see what you're aiming for and it makes sense... honestly I'm not all that concerned with the story I laid out the other day,

I want to stress that I like both your quest play through and Darkus's, we just need to tweak them a bit. So I don't want you to think we're scuttling them. Although I may have to start referring to you as destructo-girl, due to your perchance for bringing down the walls......everywhere. But let me cover that one in the next message.

 

idk if you've read back through the chatter we were having about the business aspect of setting up trade outposts and farms- buying up land and staffing it based upon faction allegiances and selected Endings- but I think that's going to be perhaps the best way to give players the freedom to do stuff in the Mojave, quests and storys aside.

I'm actually just now checking out those posts, but I know they are very popular ideas. They're not my thing, but we'll be spending a lot of focus/time on them, because many players really seem to enjoy them.

 

If we say that we're aiming to include this in all possible endings then we've really got an incentive to get builders on board, because it'd be such an attraction in and of itself.

Definitely, but alas, far easier said than done :(

[devinpatterson]

So I put together a little re-texture of the securitrons for the NCR mod. I think Devilman had a good idea with a re-texture of the securitrons (I just did a yellowish brown, to make it look like trooper colors), but there are two problems. If it's repainted it won't have all the rust, wear and tear etc we're used to seeing on teh secuirtrons. I think I'd have to do a clean re-texture (which is a bit of work), for new paint to make sense, and that would sort of take away the wasteland feel of the bots (at least to me). So I thought I'd go with the normal texture along with the NCR icons on the shoulders and the new NCR screen (which I see now I have to make a tad smaller so I can get the star in).

 

Let me know what you guys think. I made a mask so the securitron can be re-colored quickly and easily, if you think a different color would be more suited for an ncr bot. If not I'm leaning toward base texture, new icons & new screen.

 

 

 

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/NCRsecuritrons_zps47095981.jpg

 

 

[devinpatterson]

What about turning the ranger monument into a giant securitrons as a finger to the ncr

Sure, if your on a war footing with the NCR, you'll definitely be securing the Mojave outpost (as Darkus has mentioned) and defacing the monument would certainly be a strategic choice to piss off or demoralize the NCR. Possibly also increase moral for anti-NCR factions as well.

[gunslinger6792]

I saw you comment up there if it was possible for general oliver to start a coup disband the senate and all that jazz. We know from hanlon and others that the senate is extremely corrupt. If Oliver can convince members of the senate that loosing New Vegas means a big financial loss for them you could easily have a coup. Would Oliver be president doubtful but you could have a politician usurp the presidency and give Oliver his war. I got the feeling that the NCR was more an oligarchy than democracy. Marcus even hints that the NCR is just as prone to Civil War as the legion is if Ceaser dies.

[tnu]

Just some thoughts. I know you say you don't have plans to do anything with the DLCs but I can see some pretty big potential for incorporationg those. for example Old World Blues ending states that the Courier eithe racted as a custodian of BIG MOUNTAIN releasing tech as it was needed or used it him/herself There's also the bad ending to Dead Money wherein the Courier and Elijah use the Madre and the Cloud to conquer the Mojave. There's even a mod already ine xistance htat expands that ending.

 

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/48388

 

 

Then there's of course the big decision at the end of Lonesome Road to consider.

[darkus37]

Having Yes Man as the liaison might be a problem, especially if we are going with the first act having the securitrons go berserk and then become enemies. Now I know that nothing has yet to be set in stone, but assuming for this discussion we are following the scenario I proposed, that would only allow Yes Man to become available in Act 4 - that is if all the securitrons are not wiped out during the battle for New Vegas. If we are talking about the moment right at the beginning of the mod, then I can see that working well.

 

I'm not really sure what you mean by micro-managing - in this specific example (signing the treaty) I meant a just dialog based choice. For example: if you have 90+ speech and/or charisma you get an additional option during the treaty negotiation that gives better results such as the NCR subsidizing some trade goods (the argument being the NCR will benefit more in the long term).

 

So, from what I'm understanding so far, I propose the following for where the mod comes into play:

 

1. The player finishes the battle at the Dam.

2. The end credits play.

3. The player is sent to an alternate version of the Hoover Dam lobby. This version of the lobby is filled with maps, containers, weapons, and several wounded that can be helped for additional XP, karma, and reputation - all the doors are "inaccessible" and don't lead anywhere to prevent breaking the quest-line. Yes Man stands near the elevator waiting for the player. The companions have been automatically fired, with one of Yes Man's dialog options allowing the player to ask where they are - the response will be something along the lines of "they are helping with the clean-up".

4. The mod begins with a message box appearing. It should be something like "The Second Battle for the Hoover Dam is finally over, judging by the lack of explosions and gunfire for the past hour. You have arrived at the Hoover Dam lobby which has been turned into a temporary headquarters. You see Yes Man beckoning at you - you should probably go see what he wants."

5. Speaking to Yes Man will give the player several dialog options ranging from some background information (the securitrons have finished mopping up the Legion troops) to the pressing matter of the NCR wanting to speak to the Courier about what happens now that the battle is over.

4. Once the player tells Yes Man that he is ready, the two of them show up in Oliver's office (like in the NCR ending), where a new Treaty can be signed or the NCR told to leave.

5. After the treaty is signed (or not), the game then sends the player to the Lucky 38 penthouse where a message box will appear saying something like "Two weeks have passed since the Second Battle At Hoover Dam. Despite only some minor skirmishes, an eerie peace has come over the Mojave - but something tells you that is just the calm before the approaching storm".

6. When the message box is closed, the "fade-from-black" and "getting out of bed" animation is played (think - beginning of Broken Steel); klaxons and explosions ringing in the background. My Act 1 scenario begins from this point.

 

Since you guys are talking about a tent city on, or near the Dam - how about taking a look at Van Buren's version of the Hoover Dam for possible ideas?

 

Here's a pic of what they were planning:

 

 

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130317193311/fallout/images/8/82/F3HooverDam.jpg

 

 

 

 

The Securitrons

If this is a repaint job, then they should probably look newer - the brown retexture makes them look a bit rusty. I personally prefer the basic blue version. I'm also a little unsure about the NCR monitor image - I mean I get wanting to make them look distinctive, but something about it just don't feel right to me. The securitrons all display faces - perhaps you could use an image of a Ranger instead? (Take a look at NCRPoster05 for what I mean).

 

Propaganda Displays

Since you can't make a model like I suggested, I thing I've come up with a good alternative - in OWB, there are large display screens, one of which is a moving eye that changes to the Think Tank in human form. I'm suggesting something like that - a monitor of some sort, with a rotating image display; one of which can be the flag you have on the securitron, another could be a picture of Kimball, and some NCR slogans for good measure. I made a quick proof-of-concept so that it would be easier to visualize what I was talking about:

 

 

 

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/images/406526-1374380269.jpg

 

 

 

@tnu - I don't really see what else we can add from the DLC's (other than resources) that wouldn't turn into full mods of their own.

 

For example, the Tunnelers will be a major threat sometime in the future, and a whole mod can be built around hunting and destroying them. I get images of Predator (the original) mixed with Pitch Black when I think about it for some reason.

 

Another example could be something mentioned in the end of OWB if Blind Diode Jefferson is full upgraded, something about a "sonic invasion" - who's to say that's the first invasion? Could have floating balls of light with sonic attacks (like lakelurks) appearing all over the place.

 

Did you have something specific in mind? I mean obviously, if you use the nuclear missile on the Long 15 the NCR will hate you - if they could prove your guilt.

Edited July 21, 2013 by darkus37

[devinpatterson]

I see it this way; if we create a new town around The Strip, merging it with Freeside, then the player has the ability to physically build new buildings on the ruins

I think we could merge freeside with new developement. I'd start it out with refugee's and a tent city. Then progress (not sure how long, a week, weeks?) to a shanty town of wasteland materials made by the refugees, if they'r don't get to go back to teh strip. Then the player can begin to get real construction going and spend some caps in earnest, to do a lot of the things you suggest.

 

physically build new buildings on the ruins, and conduct trade caravans and so on- a lot of freedom.

Sure, but I don't think we need to lay low the strip to do that. I think doing it via expanding free side, as you suggest is the best way. This way we can make a lot more alterations without radically changing the strip (for compatibility, and also to keep the "strip" atmosphere). It is tempting though, to have a long game, of changing the strip once the resources are there (if we have some awesome casino's we're just dying to add). As a matter of fact I have one I want to show you guys, if I can find the assets.

 

But anyway back to the mod. So freeside is probably (?) less rugged than the strip. If we concentrate a lot of securitron battles in teh area, I'm sure the missiles can wreck some locations and be the start of what your suggesting.

 

the new buildings should only be in expanding current areas or creating new areas like outposts or bases, rebuilding would be restoring it to its original form

I think we can acomplish that by adding on to freeside. But it's hard to resist the temptation further down the line to rebuild pre-war casino's once the caps start pouring in. A truly Vegas New Vegas is well outside the scope of this mod, but can you imagine how much fun it would be to have blocks upon blocks of sin city?